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RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 5:30:22 AM   
xBullx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Way romney's eyes bugged out and the speed of his speaking. he was on some kinda shit.


Interesting... This is what it all boils down to for you? This is the direction you intend to take in the defense of you man?



_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 5:40:40 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		Naw, said earlier.....he spoke nothing but new lies about new positions. First time I have ever heard that a 20% tax reduction is not a tax reduction. And the classic - I don't like obamacare but I will replace it with my romneycare(which is obamacare) and help the states run.

Plus talking about this poor small businessman he knows and his 50% tax rate........all the while he skirts the system to pay 13% or less.

He can keep repeating lies. He has the whole campaign,,,,,,

So this is the person you want answering that 3AM call? Really?






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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 5:52:17 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Romney kept talking about how he wants to increase good paying jobs. Why didn't President Obama bring up Bain Capital? Why didn't he mention that republicans kept voting no on all the jobs bills proving their goal of making him a one term president was more important than jobs? How can republicans be for GOOD PAYING jobs when they're against unions and raising the minimum wage? Romney made a side by side comparison in his closing speech. Why didn't President Obama do the same? He did very well pointing out Romney's arithmetic doesn't add up, but unfortunately, his closing speech sucked.


See I thought the reverse. The closing bit was what really defined each one. Romney, again, had no vision. Just things he was against. While the President went through what has been accomplished and what he wanted to do the next four years.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 5:54:06 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
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Status: offline 		your all romey fads lol I want honest answer not just romey did this or that spell it out for gush sakes


Mons

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 5:56:46 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		I didn't think much of either one.

Obama didn't project calm confidence as much as I would have liked. As a former Toastmaster, I would have preferred more smoothness, less stuttering.

Romney had the impossible task of needing to both project likability and at the same time attack the President. He succeeded in the latter but failed in the former. I was watching and just felt turned off. He seemed too frantic and not self-assured to me.

I have no clue why Obama didn't tout the economic growth numbers for the last three years, given at the DNC. Some snide allusions to how the President needs to represent 100% of the people would have pushed Romney as well.

If I have to pick a winner, I'd say that Romney lost perhaps a bit less than Obama lost.

That said, I want to see how the polls reflect the debate.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 6:09:36 AM   
xBullx


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I'm not completely clear we saw the same things in the debate, or even the same debate for that matter; and please remember that Romney is not "my" guy. I'm a Libertarian.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Naw, said earlier.....he spoke nothing but new lies about new positions. First time I have ever heard that a 20% tax reduction is not a tax reduction. And the classic -


I'm not sure what you can claim is a lie that the right can't state the same about your guy so I'll leave that semantic as is. However I did note that Romney said his tax reduction across the board would stimulate job growth and thereby allow for a larger tax base. That actually makes sense to me, but then again I'm looking for answers, not talking points or counters to talking points.

quote:



I don't like obamacare but I will replace it with my romneycare(which is obamacare) and help the states run.


I don't remember Romney saying he was going to replace Obama Care with anything you mentioned. I got the repeal part and how he defended Romney Care, and how he said that states with a bit of help from the Fed (if they need it) should be allowed to manage their own states. Maybe it's just me, but that sounded reasonable and responsible enough, well except for California, their friggin' broke.

quote:



Plus talking about this poor small businessman he knows and his 50% tax rate........all the while he skirts the system to pay 13% or less.


Yeah, this talking point only works if you choose to ignore all the explanations given with reference to tax codes. I think last night the whole class warfare message from Obama took a hit and is sinking, thankfully. We need to unite and not divide this country.


In any event, you are a good soldier for your man...


_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 6:13:39 AM   
SadistDave


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Status: offline 		Actually, I think Obama performed quite well. Romney came in more prepared, more informed, and ready to rumble. Obama did damage control and he did it well. He topped from the bottom and took his hits, but ultimately he actually did manage to control the debate by keeping the focus on one or two of the subjects he was willing to take the hits on.

By and large, he stuck with things he believed would keep Romney's debate points from being prominent. For the most part, I think he succeeded. He attacked Romney with his same tired rhetoric about how bad Romney's ideas were compared to his own failed performance as president. Romney did what he came to do. He hammered home his points, and verbally bitch slapped Obama repeatedly.

Obama used a good strategy though. After years of easy questions and not having anyone call him on his bullshit, Obama was not very well prepared for the smack down Romney showed up to give him. I think he realized about 10 minutes in that Romney was going to dominate the debate and really hold him accountable in ways the press has been unwilling to do. I believe that's when he went into damage control mode. He would either lie or exaggerate about something and Romney would correct him. He repeated the lie, Romney corrected him again. That ate up time which Romney was prepared to use to do even more damage to Obama.

If Obama had brought up Bain Capitol, the War on Women, or many of the other bullshit issues that have been used by liberals in this campaign, Romney would have eaten him alive. For instance, Obama claimed to be a job creator. Romney immediately stated that 23 million out of work Americans and 47% of the country on welfare programs proved he was no job creator. If Obama had mentioned Bain, Romney could have used that to show that without the backing of the federal government, he was capable of generating jobs and wealth in the private sector with which, even after 4 years of claiming to be a job creator, Obama still has absolutely zero experience or knowledge. Had Obama used Bain to talk about sending jobs overseas, Romney would have reminded the world that the Obama stimulus was used by GM, Fisker, and a lot of other companies who received funds to ship jobs overseas.

Instead, Obama stuck with answers that had little substance and a lot of spin knowing that instead of being punked on every new statement, he could limit the damage to three or four issues. The strategy kept Romney from using the debate to his full advantage.

-SD-


_____________________________

To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 6:23:05 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
If Obama had brought up Bain Capitol, the War on Women, or many of the other bullshit issues that have been used by liberals in this campaign, Romney would have eaten him alive. For instance, Obama claimed to be a job creator. Romney immediately stated that 23 million out of work Americans and 47% of the country on welfare programs proved he was no job creator. If Obama had mentioned Bain, Romney could have used that to show that without the backing of the federal government, he was capable of generating jobs and wealth in the private sector with which, even after 4 years of claiming to be a job creator, Obama still has absolutely zero experience or knowledge. Had Obama used Bain to talk about sending jobs overseas, Romney would have reminded the world that the Obama stimulus was used by GM, Fisker, and a lot of other companies who received funds to ship jobs overseas.


Overall, an interesting viewpoint. Yes, Obama did a good job of damage control, but I don't see that as what he went in to do. I really liked when Romney challenged Obama on companies getting paid to outsource jobs. "In all my years in business, I have no idea what you're talking about. Either that or I need to get a better accountant" or something to that effect. Deflated the entire aim of Obama's talking point.

I do think Romney missed a couple points. I never understand an incumbent mentioning having come up with a plan that has more spending/tax cuts and would push for that plan if he's re-elected. If they've identified cuts, efficiencies, etc. while in office, shouldn't those have been implemented asap rather than attempting to use it as a bargaining tool? Just me talking here, but....

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 6:33:20 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx



I'm not completely clear we saw the same things in the debate, or even the same debate for that matter; and please remember that Romney is not "my" guy. I'm a Libertarian.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Naw, said earlier.....he spoke nothing but new lies about new positions. First time I have ever heard that a 20% tax reduction is not a tax reduction. And the classic -


I'm not sure what you can claim is a lie that the right can't state the same about your guy so I'll leave that semantic as is. However I did note that Romney said his tax reduction across the board would stimulate job growth and thereby allow for a larger tax base. That actually makes sense to me, but then again I'm looking for answers, not talking points or counters to talking points. (but then as a libertarian wouldn't you be more concerned about this busting the budget even more. I had always assumed libertarians were for less gov't spending)....But even going past that you do realize he ran away from those tax cuts in the debate. He isn't going to have a 5 trillion dollar tax cut.......Oh wait. He did say he is going to have one but no REALLY have one...Its nonsensical. Certainly not Presidential.

quote:



I don't like obamacare but I will replace it with my romneycare(which is obamacare) and help the states run.


I don't remember Romney saying he was going to replace Obama Care with anything you mentioned. I got the repeal part and how he defended Romney Care, and how he said that states with a bit of help from the Fed (if they need it) should be allowed to manage their own states. Maybe it's just me, but that sounded reasonable and responsible enough, well except for California, their friggin' broke. Actually he did. He said he would replace Obamacare with what he worked on as his time as Gov. and help the states implement plans. Which, in essence, is Obamacare. That the President proposed it is upsetting to right leaning folks but it is what it is.

quote:



Plus talking about this poor small businessman he knows and his 50% tax rate........all the while he skirts the system to pay 13% or less.


Yeah, this talking point only works if you choose to ignore all the explanations given with reference to tax codes. I think last night the whole class warfare message from Obama took a hit and is sinking, thankfully. We need to unite and not divide this country. How so? what did he explain that was earth shattering. You do realize the tax base has been expanded these 4 years right? You do understand that deregulation is what brought us to the brink of collapse? You get that he dismissed 47% of the American people as not worth his time?


In any event, you are a good soldier for your man...I do enjoy your saying you are a libertarian. You do the right wing talking points rather well. But sure, you can be libertarian if you want.


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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 6:36:50 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
If Obama had brought up Bain Capitol, the War on Women, or many of the other bullshit issues that have been used by liberals in this campaign, Romney would have eaten him alive. For instance, Obama claimed to be a job creator. Romney immediately stated that 23 million out of work Americans and 47% of the country on welfare programs proved he was no job creator. If Obama had mentioned Bain, Romney could have used that to show that without the backing of the federal government, he was capable of generating jobs and wealth in the private sector with which, even after 4 years of claiming to be a job creator, Obama still has absolutely zero experience or knowledge. Had Obama used Bain to talk about sending jobs overseas, Romney would have reminded the world that the Obama stimulus was used by GM, Fisker, and a lot of other companies who received funds to ship jobs overseas.


Overall, an interesting viewpoint. Yes, Obama did a good job of damage control, but I don't see that as what he went in to do. I really liked when Romney challenged Obama on companies getting paid to outsource jobs. "In all my years in business, I have no idea what you're talking about. Either that or I need to get a better accountant" or something to that effect. Deflated the entire aim of Obama's talking point.

I do think Romney missed a couple points. I never understand an incumbent mentioning having come up with a plan that has more spending/tax cuts and would push for that plan if he's re-elected. If they've identified cuts, efficiencies, etc. while in office, shouldn't those have been implemented asap rather than attempting to use it as a bargaining tool? Just me talking here, but....


So you've worked a job 4 years and can honestly say you've identified and fixed all the areas that you wanted to within the Organization?

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 6:40:08 AM   
SadistDave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
If Obama had brought up Bain Capitol, the War on Women, or many of the other bullshit issues that have been used by liberals in this campaign, Romney would have eaten him alive. For instance, Obama claimed to be a job creator. Romney immediately stated that 23 million out of work Americans and 47% of the country on welfare programs proved he was no job creator. If Obama had mentioned Bain, Romney could have used that to show that without the backing of the federal government, he was capable of generating jobs and wealth in the private sector with which, even after 4 years of claiming to be a job creator, Obama still has absolutely zero experience or knowledge. Had Obama used Bain to talk about sending jobs overseas, Romney would have reminded the world that the Obama stimulus was used by GM, Fisker, and a lot of other companies who received funds to ship jobs overseas.


Overall, an interesting viewpoint. Yes, Obama did a good job of damage control, but I don't see that as what he went in to do. I really liked when Romney challenged Obama on companies getting paid to outsource jobs. "In all my years in business, I have no idea what you're talking about. Either that or I need to get a better accountant" or something to that effect. Deflated the entire aim of Obama's talking point.

I do think Romney missed a couple points. I never understand an incumbent mentioning having come up with a plan that has more spending/tax cuts and would push for that plan if he's re-elected. If they've identified cuts, efficiencies, etc. while in office, shouldn't those have been implemented asap rather than attempting to use it as a bargaining tool? Just me talking here, but....


I agree. The debate started out with Obama smirking like a mouse who just belled the cat. Like I said, I think the shift happened in the first 10 minutes or so. I think that was about the time Obama knew he was going to lose and went from arrogant asshat to to defending his miserable record. I think that's when he decided to just run out the clock and not give Romney time to make a bad situation much, much worse, because he got increasingly more grumpy after Romney's first riposte.

ROFL, as far as Obama identifying cuts, inefficiencies, etc. goes, I could not agree more. Consider though, that Obama cannot get a single vote for his budgets from his own party. If Obama has identified any sweeping cost saving measures, deficit reductions, or ways to streamline government to increase productivity while decreasing cost, he is clearly keeping those ideas to himself.

-SD-

_____________________________

To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 6:49:31 AM   
cloudboy


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quote:

I'm surprised the cons are so happy though, Romney threw away every position dear to them. He walked away from any cap gains tax cut, privatizing SS, any change to Medicare (no one will choose a private plan with standard Medicare available), all the various Pentagon budget increases and new wars. He even talked positively about Romneycare and couldn't name any substantive part of obamacare he would replace. I guess you're hoping he'll shake the etch o sketch again if he wins?


The base and the party apparatus care more about being in power than anything else. Getting Obama out is their dream, along with repealing Obamacare, cutting funding to NPR, and vetoing democratic initiatives.

Obama looked bad to me. It's as if he wanted the viewers to see Mitt Romney's policies as self-evidently poor as they are generally regarded by the reading, informed public. He did not effectively explain why he's a better candidate for President.

Next, about the role of government. This is so simple, and Obama fucked it up completely.

What all Americans want is good government. We also don't want the fox guarding the hen house. Bad government leads to IRAQ and the financial crisis. Corrupt government leads to the Nuclear mess we saw in Japan. Bad ineffective government lead to 9/11 and the Katrina response. Bad government contributes to creating the mortgage crisis and great recession. As far as regulation goes, we want effective regulation -- the kind of regulation that checks wall street abuses and helps prevent oil leaks in the gulf, and that insures we all breathe clean air and drink clean water. If you elect Romney, he will put the foxes in charge of the hen houses. Everything will be business friendly instead of American friendly. Regulators will be working for special interests, not American interests, not the public interest.

Next, government needs was to be more efficient and cost effective in delivering its services, and this is why the 15 member medical panel is so important: we want to deliver better, more cost effective care to Americans. Expecting individual Americans to enter the health care market by themselves seeking lower costs is insane, better that Americans ban together and collectively bargain for lower rates on health care services and prescriptions drugs as a group.

The private sector is not always better. Look at the private contractors in the Military who are paid 3-4 times more than our own soldiers. Look at the cost of health coverage for a medicare recipient as opposed to someone paying out of pocket.

Mr. Romney said he wants to grow the economy to cut our deficit, but cutting the US deficit has never occurred without raising taxes. He's telling America it can lose weight by eating ice cream. His plan if foolish and history says you can't believe what he's saying.

Obama looked like he just rolled out of bed after a hard week and showed up unprepared and uninspired.

Lastly, the US government should not be turning our park lands over to oil companies for drilling.

Obama might have also have mentioned the role of Citizen's United on the elections and how this will impact government, making it more corrupt. He might also have said the Mitt Romney would appoint judges on the Supreme Court who would roll the US back into the Guilded Age while repealing Roe v. Wade.

Obama also didn't say anything to help any Senators or Representatives win elections in their own state. Obama never asked Romney if he faced over 200 filibusters when he was the governor of Massachusetts.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/4/2012 7:05:32 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 6:56:15 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
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Status: offline 		Do you equate talking rapidly and without substance to being good? How was he unprepared? What was factually incorrect that he said. He went over time and again the positions that Romney was screaming about and pointing out the fallacy and the lack of substance.  I thought his "I guess his tax policy after all this time is "nevermind"" was a great response. At the end he listed everything romney said during the debate and pointed out that not one of those things came with any details. Who won? Obama. easily.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 7:02:23 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		All this is as meaningless as the analysis and debates about sports on ESPN.  Nobody changed teams on these debates, nor will they.  

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 7:07:51 AM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		FR

High entertainment value on this thread. It's a great way to start my day.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 7:09:32 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Oh, a political addicts mainliner to be sure, Rich; this stuff.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 7:11:16 AM   
cloudboy


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quote:

Who won? Obama. easily.


I don't think he won, at best he tread water. Maybe Dark Steven is right, he's just out of practice. You would have done a better job than Obama, because you are so good at cutting through bull shit and making your points succinctly. Obama is more of a wonk. Honestly, he just failed to articulate any kind of vision.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 7:13:39 AM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		i don't agree with that; the Republicans needed to gain some thunder and did. Now they don't feel like they're slipping off a cliff in a race they can't win. Romney looked like he knew what he was doing, and he got Obama looking confused. I was impressed.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/4/2012 7:40:58 AM >

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RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 7:19:19 AM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		In the end, people are going to remember that Mitt's down with killing off Big Bird and PBS so he can do his Mitt magic with numbers that just don't add up, no matter how it's spun.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/4/2012 7:46:28 AM   
DomYngBlk


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Status: offline 		So what was Romney's vision coming out of the debate? I'll do better, just don't ask for details?

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Profile   Post #: 60
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