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Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 8:19:33 PM

JanahX

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Joined: 8/21/2010
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Ok - this has always been one of the things that really drives me nuts about collaring and bdsm. And that its compared to marriage. Its not the same thing.

Heres why - Ive seen too many Doms throw their sub out on their ass - after YEARS together, without a dime to their name. The sub/slave was at home doing the house-chores, running household errands, being the Dom(me)/Masters sex outlet - so as where they thought that they were secure, they really wernt.

The Dom or Domme was out making the cash - banking it, and just doling out a few bucks here and there to their sub/slave. - enough to make the sub/slave feel secure. But when the relationship ended, the owner kept all the cash (in his/her acct.) and the sub/slave had zero.

In a legal binding, such as marriage - there are laws that protect you, so that you dont end up desolate - especially with community property. Unless you live in a state where common law marriage is recognized -
Alabama
Colorado
District of Columbia
Georgia (if created before 1/1/97)
Idaho (if created before 1/1/96)
Iowa
Kansas
Montana
New Hampshire (for inheritance purposes only)
Ohio (if created before 10/10/91)
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Carolina
Texas
Utah

Then you might have a leg to stand on - legally.

If you dont live in one of these states, you are going to be in for quite a struggle trying to claim anything that you feel is rightfully yours.

Now I know that sub and slaves work outside the home - and blah, blah- and this of course is just a certain situation setup that Ive put out there hypothetically - but even so, courts do not recognize collars as marriage. Not even close.

How do you view it? And why?

< Message edited by JanahX -- 10/7/2012 8:54:22 PM >

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RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 8:38:13 PM

Lucifyre

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Joined: 3/27/2012
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I believe regardless of what kind of relationship you have with someone you should always be responsible for yourself.
Even with Mr and I after almost 20 years together, there are steps I have taken to ensure that I will be ok should something happen to our relationship. IE His death or should He lose His mind and leave me for a younger woman (wait...that contingency involves land and a shovel, who the fuck am I kidding LOL)

But in a D/s relationship frankly there are way too many different flavors for anyone to guess what it is or should be. After a certain amount of time (which btw can be anybody's guess), if they don't go out of thier way to make sure thier partner is going to be taken care of in the event of some kind of split, the there is already something wrong. The s type is not so smart for making sure they bank thier future and the D type is a selfish asshat for not making sure the s type does that.

Obviously a short lived relationship...say a few weeks or months, one should not be held accountable to that degree to the other but after a few years...once there has been an establishment of lives being intertwined...then yes, it should be similar to marraige, but then why the hell don't they just make it legal on paper at that point anyway? (of course this doesn't explain gay or alternative relationships but it's not my job to think of everything now is it?)

JMO
Lucifyre

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RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 8:39:59 PM

NuevaVida

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I don't equate it to marriage. Receiving his collar meant accepting his authority over me, and committing to live by his rule. It meant his commitment to exercise his authority over me responsibly and carefully. It symbolized these things, and our commitment to each other.

It did not commit us to each other legally.

It did not commit us to each other for life.

For me, his marrying me and giving me his name would be a much greater bond/commitment than his putting his collar on me.

Not to take away from the meaning of his collar - it means a great deal to me. But it's not a marriage.

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RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 8:41:51 PM

LadyHibiscus

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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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Hell no. Not the same thing at all.

And, what Nueva said.

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RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 8:56:14 PM

RemoteUser

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The mindsets can be similar, but they are not the same thing.

My girl wears my collar, but we may never get married (even after the divorce). We don't need to. If she ends up moving up here, I have no doubts that we would be together long enough to be considered commonlaw, but that is a designation assigned by the government solely for legal definitions that boil down to family law and taxation.

Those are down the road considerations that we've discussed, with nothing set in stone, although we both think about it. In the interim she has accepted my collar and what it represents in our dynamic. I'm quite content with that, as I am with her.

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RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 9:13:37 PM

Alecta

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Collaring is as meaningful as the couples make them out to be. Originally collaring was compared to marriage because some couples decided to make their wedding rings collars.

How people treat each other have nothing to do with marriage or collaring and everything to do with how they treat each other. The legal protection offered by the institution of marriage is its advantage over the idea of a committed collar, but is no protection against people abandoning each other and leaving each other in bad situations. The situation proposed in the OP happens to people in vanilla marriages just as often.

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Post #: 6

RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 9:29:42 PM

Aynne88

Posts: 3873
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Hell no. Not the same thing at all.

And, what Nueva said.

Ditto. Not even close.

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RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 9:51:41 PM

avena

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...what Nueva said...

BUT....an outsider looking in at my relationship with D probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference, whether we were married or not. Legal aspects aside, marriage is exactly what our relationship looks like. Of course, it would look like this collar or no collar, having evolved to what it is naturally.

Does being collared = being married? No. Definitely not. But it can sure as hell look and feel like it, so I can understand how some people could come to think or feel that it is the same.

(in reply to JanahX)

Post #: 8

RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 9:54:15 PM

joewordsmith

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

Heres why - Ive seen too many Doms throw their sub out on their ass - after YEARS together, without a dime to their name. The sub/slave was at home doing the house-chores, running household errands, being the Dom(me)/Masters sex outlet - so as where they thought that they were secure, they really wernt.

The Dom or Domme was out making the cash - banking it, and just doling out a few bucks here and there to their sub/slave. - enough to make the sub/slave feel secure. But when the relationship ended, the owner kept all the cash (in his/her acct.) and the sub/slave had zero.

Personally, I think people need to be responsible for themselves. If someone sets themselves up in a situation like you describe, and they think they are entitled to something when the relationship ends, they are idiots.

(in reply to JanahX)

Post #: 9

RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 10:15:25 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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Imo, any sub that goes into that kinda thing, and doesnt work or does work but turns over the cash to the dom or if they dont have a written legal co-habitation agreement (if they are legal & enforceable in that state), she is just seeing/believing what she wants to see/believe and is very likely gonna be in for a rude awakening some day.. but,.. that is her decision to go willingly into that situation and accept those terms..

While my profile says i am a "sub" I have totally backed off on that, to just being submissive in the bedroom.. and your post is in great part why.. imo, too many Doms are just out for themselves and will only treat their sub decently while things are rosy, if the relationship turns to poop, then it tends to be the sub that is royally screwed.. and i wont put myself in that position, period.. but i dont dont ever want to get married again so thats not something i would do either.. Marriage too, gives your spouse certain rights and so has negatives also, imo.. trying to get out of a bad marriage can take years and be very expensive to extracate yourself from..

I prefer to make my own money and own my investments (only in my name) and his money is his, etc.. should I ever find a guy i want to spend my time with, that is.. imo, the less complications the better..

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RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 10:29:25 PM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

Ok - this has always been one of the things that really drives me nuts about collaring and bdsm. And that its compared to marriage. Its not the same thing.

Heres why - Ive seen too many Doms throw their sub out on their ass - after YEARS together, without a dime to their name. The sub/slave was at home doing the house-chores, running household errands, being the Dom(me)/Masters sex outlet - so as where they thought that they were secure, they really wernt.

The Dom or Domme was out making the cash - banking it, and just doling out a few bucks here and there to their sub/slave. - enough to make the sub/slave feel secure. But when the relationship ended, the owner kept all the cash (in his/her acct.) and the sub/slave had zero.

In a legal binding, such as marriage - there are laws that protect you, so that you dont end up desolate - especially with community property. Unless you live in a state where common law marriage is recognized -
Alabama
Colorado
District of Columbia
Georgia (if created before 1/1/97)
Idaho (if created before 1/1/96)
Iowa
Kansas
Montana
New Hampshire (for inheritance purposes only)
Ohio (if created before 10/10/91)
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Carolina
Texas
Utah

Then you might have a leg to stand on - legally.

If you dont live in one of these states, you are going to be in for quite a struggle trying to claim anything that you feel is rightfully yours.

Now I know that sub and slaves work outside the home - and blah, blah- and this of course is just a certain situation setup that Ive put out there hypothetically - but even so, courts do not recognize collars as marriage. Not even close.

How do you view it? And why?

Live with em long enough in a common law state and it's viewed just like marriage...but that has zip to do with collars and everything to do with cohabitation

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Post #: 11

RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 10:40:08 PM

JanahX

Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Live with em long enough in a common law state and it's viewed just like marriage...but that has zip to do with collars and everything to do with cohabitation

Yeah - I know, but the point of the thread was that I see a lot of people that put collaring and marriage into the same category - like the collar is a wedding ring.

There are a lot of people that confuse it. Im speaking generally about people that cohabitate together and have common property. Not so much about people that are collared and live in seperate households. I dont know very many people that are married (or want to stay married anyways) that live in two different houses. Sure they exist - but its not a common dealio.

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RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 10:40:47 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Let's establish something first. In My personal opinion, all too often people treat each other like crap at the end of a relationship. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't have volume upon volume of divorce law.

With that said, from a legal standpoint, they are not the same. It's not legally sanctioned when the collar goes on, so there's really not much that can be done when the collar comes off. Some folks know how to act like humans and treat each other decently when things don't work out. Others don't. Yes, there should be a contingency plan in place because I don't care how great that other person in your relationship is now, that's probably not the same person you are going to be dealing with when the relationship is over. Don't believe Me? Then where did all of these horrible ex's come from that people tell you stories about?

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RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 11:07:04 PM

seekingreality

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Live with em long enough in a common law state and it's viewed just like marriage...but that has zip to do with collars and everything to do with cohabitation

Yeah - I know, but the point of the thread was that I see a lot of people that put collaring and marriage into the same category - like the collar is a wedding ring.
.

The real trouble is you are shadow boxing. Not a single person who has participated in this thread has equated collaring with marriage, so you don't have anyone to take the other side of the argument that you are itching to have. You threw down the gauntlet and no one took you up on it.

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Post #: 14

RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 11:15:54 PM

JanahX

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Joined: 8/21/2010
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Of course no one that has participated in this thread mixes the two up. Theyve been here forever. Unlike you.

- also its hard to shadowbox when there isnt an argument going on. More or less youre finding fault with something that not even going on.

Hows your comprehension these days?

Its a discussion. Fucking Duh -

< Message edited by JanahX -- 10/7/2012 11:21:45 PM >

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RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 11:17:36 PM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

Collaring is as meaningful as the couples make them out to be. Originally collaring was compared to marriage because some couples decided to make their wedding rings collars.

How people treat each other have nothing to do with marriage or collaring and everything to do with how they treat each other. The legal protection offered by the institution of marriage is its advantage over the idea of a committed collar, but is no protection against people abandoning each other and leaving each other in bad situations. The situation proposed in the OP happens to people in vanilla marriages just as often.

I like this one^

Marriage, accept no substitute.
But you can get a dud master/mistress just as
easily as you can get a dud husband/wife, at
least with marriage you have good legal
recognition.

-Aries

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 10/7/2012 11:26:31 PM >

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RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/7/2012 11:20:17 PM

seekingreality

Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: avena

...what Nueva said...

BUT....an outsider looking in at my relationship with D probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference, whether we were married or not. Legal aspects aside, marriage is exactly what our relationship looks like. Of course, it would look like this collar or no collar, having evolved to what it is naturally.

Does being collared = being married? No. Definitely not. But it can sure as hell look and feel like it, so I can understand how some people could come to think or feel that it is the same.

I have to admid the OP complaints don't resonate with me. I don't know many couples where the man works and the woman doesn't. Virtually everyone I know is a two-job couple.

It's hard for me to imagine someone who has a good job who gives that up to be a stay-at-home homeworker in a sub-domme couple. So anyone who is in the situation he describes probably wasn't doing too well financially when they entered into it. I am not sure why such a person is entitled to anything when the relationship ends.

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RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/8/2012 1:55:06 AM

crazyml

Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
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Ello!

From a personal perspective, "Collaring" just isn't for me. But I've known people for whom collaring was just about play, and others for whom a collar was every bit as important, as a wedding ring, and others for whom (as someone else has pointed out) the wedding ring and the collar were essentially the same thing.

It's an individual thing, and it would be pretty flipping insensitive of me to say to a couple for whom collaring, and the collar was an intensely emotional and symbolic thing "Meh... it's just a flaming collar!".

Having said that, the OP raises a really important point, one that is important whether "collaring" comes into the relationship or not.

When entering a long term relationship, it's so important to consider what happens if things go terribly wrong. By "wrong" I don't just mean a break up (although these are, let's face it, not unusual), I'm also thinking in terms of death or serious illness.

In some jurisdictions the co-habitation/common-law marriage legislation provides an automatic legal framework, in others people should consider planning for long-term eventualities.

Joe..

quote:

ORIGINAL: joewordsmith
Personally, I think people need to be responsible for themselves. If someone sets themselves up in a situation like you describe, and they think they are entitled to something when the relationship ends, they are idiots.

I have to disagree. If someone lives with a partner for 20 years, perhaps caring for them through illness, I don't think it's in the least bit "idiotic" of them to think or feel that they're entitled to something. And the existence of co-habitation/common-law legislation suggests that quite a few people seem to think that it's reasonable, in some cases, to regard a non-married partner as "entitled to something"

I would take a different line and say "If someone enters into a long-term relationship with someone, without considering the legal ramifications of separation, illness or death then they're idiots". With the caveat, that when we're in lerve, we're all capable of being idiots (ok... most of us are, me included).

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RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/8/2012 5:08:09 AM

lizi

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Collaring to me is a sign of commitment between a man and myself; I believe being collared is not the same as marriage. Not the same legally, or emotionally. I would definitely view a collar as a sign that I am with someone and have chosen to give them my time, attention, respect, loyalty, etc...and I would hope that those things are returned to me.

If I were in any relationship outside of marriage for any length of time with the idea of sticking with it, I'd be having the conversations of what we'll do for our future as a couple. I don't think I'll ever get married again, so it's on me then to set myself up for my future in a prudent, responsible manner.

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Post #: 19

RE: Do you think being collared is the same as marriage? - 10/8/2012 6:02:39 AM

BambiBoi

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Janah was very clear to compare the status of marriage on a person's rights to property with the status of being collared (no legal status). But then, in post #11, Janah says ". . . the point of the thread was that I see a lot of people that put collaring and marriage into the same category - like the collar is a wedding ring" and muddies the issue.

The first point says Thing 1 ≠ Thing 2, which I think most people would agree (See Kana and Reality saying no one disagrees that a wedding band is not legally a collar).

Lady Pact makes a great point, that when relationships end any sanctity quickly goes sour. Even though marriage is a state sanctioned, community lauded, often divinely approved connection, we have rules on how to break up. For this reason, lets separate the "in love" and "out of love" phases of a relationship.

Talking just about getting into and formalizing/memorializing a relationship: the similarity between marriage and collaring is the pomp and circumstance. While both collaring and marriage CAN be taken lightly, many consider them big steps. Which is "bigger" or "better" is irrelephant. Many people marry just for technical reasons like citizenship, tax benefits, visitation rights, a higher paycheck, etc. That's not the storybook prince & princess marriage Disney would cram down your throat. This makes collaring seem all the more noble. Though some people sully the honor in collaring by slapping leather around the neck of anything that would suck his dick.

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