RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point?

RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (Full Version)

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seekingreality -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/5/2012 8:50:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins ok i get your point to an extent. i say extent because i don't see what the hell it has to do with trusting the other person. i know myself best so if i say no it's for a reason and the other person should just respect that, as they expect me to respect their's. i'm not sure how someone can agree to 'no limits' when they have limits, but that's just me. but there are those that insist on the other taking part in same gender sex when the other is very adament that they are straight. i don't see how anyone can claim to be straight, have sex with the same gender and still claim to be straight when they insist that others are bi just because they allowed themselves to be 'forced'. another thing it makes me wonder is this; if it's all down to enjoying the experience what would it mean if you had been blindfold, had no idea who the other person playing with you is, and enjoyed what happened. if you cum from this does that make you bi? when the blindfold comes off you can't claim that you didn't enjoy it just because you now know that they were the same gender. therefore it is only your own mind block that tells you you are straight. needles Personally, i think you are getting too hung up on labels, and I am not a big label person. A person might enjoy "forced bi" for reasons that aren't really about the sexual experience of being with someone of the same sex -- the person who enjoys forced bi might simply get off on being directed to do something they abhore, or they might get off on doing someone to please their master/mistress even if they dislike it themselves. In that case, the sex is really just a path to humiliation. Or a person might like forced bi because they like being with someone of the same sex and don't want admit. A million diffferent ways to skin this one. I don't see the big deal in how someone chooses to label themselves. even if you are involved with them, the label they give themselves doesn't matter; it's how they define the label for you.

FrostedFlake -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/6/2012 1:08:45 AM)
All I know is, this thread has had a deep, meaningful impact on my ...personal inclination. Personally, I'm inclined to bless the next moron I trip on with the suggestion not that he fuck himself, but that guy over there.

chatterbox24 -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/6/2012 6:32:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt You said this: quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 I was referring to acts that violate the very fiber of a persons core, moral fibers, deep beliefs, and I think "forced Bi" is in that category. You seem to have missed that I said this: quote: He knows me well enough to know that although it is pathetically easy for him to get me to a point I would do anything for him, he can't push those limits, b/c to do so would be damaging to me. It's nothing I have to worry about in the least, b/c he's not interested in damaging me, I know that. That lw and mos have established relationships where they share their d-types limits does not mean they feel "so deep a need to be with someone I would do anything they asked." It's not an issue of being needy, it's an issue of TRUST. And that Kana said this: quote: And with caution. Don't go running willy-nilly into shit. Think about the ramifications, the long term effects down the road. Ask yourself, "Is the risk worth the payoff?" Am I willing to gamble everything in our relationship for this one thing. And if so, what's the price I'M gonna pay, because sure as hell, I'm gonna pay one too. It might not be anything readily visible, but the internal dynamics of the relationship are gonna change, and that means I'm gonna change too So who's talking about things that violate a person's core? From what I've read, most replies have made it clear the dominant would never do such a thing, even if the s-type "has no limits." You know chatter, I've been trying to deal with you, b/c I know you're trying to learn, but then you make wild statements with little basis in reality. Sure, you're entitled to your opinion same as everyone else, but dang, some of yours don't exactly help your credibility. I hate to break this to you, but I was referring to the flip side, where a dom is not taking the best interest of sub in mind. Where do you get I was taking what you said and using it at all? I didnt even read your post until you mistakenly thought I Had and was referring to it. The only reason I commented further is because I saw where you said my lack of understanding was appalling. I understand that alot of people do things because they BELEIVE they have lost their power to a creep who takes advantage of that person. Call it sub frenzy, call it poor self esteem, call it whatever you want. THey believe they have no control, and no power, but they do, they just have became beat down and lost. Are there good doms out there, Im sure there are but Im speaking about the ones who ARE NOT doing the right thing.

SimplyMichael -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/6/2012 6:33:19 AM)
Being homosexual ISNT THE FUCKING ACT! Its the desire to BE gay, to fuck and suck the same sex that makes one gay. Hate to ruin another myth but the earth isnt 5,000 years old either!

kdsub -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/6/2012 7:49:04 AM)
quote: Me, I always find these sorts of issues a lot easier to deal with if I don't try to resolve them. It's neither forced, nor consensual - it's both. It's contradictory. That's why it's fun. Any takers? No? There hardly ever are Nope... it is either an agreed to relationship or a crime...simple Butch

LadyPact -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/6/2012 9:01:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 I hate to break this to you, but I was referring to the flip side, where a dom is not taking the best interest of sub in mind. Where do you get I was taking what you said and using it at all? I didnt even read your post until you mistakenly thought I Had and was referring to it. The only reason I commented further is because I saw where you said my lack of understanding was appalling. I understand that alot of people do things because they BELEIVE they have lost their power to a creep who takes advantage of that person. Call it sub frenzy, call it poor self esteem, call it whatever you want. THey believe they have no control, and no power, but they do, they just have became beat down and lost. Are there good doms out there, Im sure there are but Im speaking about the ones who ARE NOT doing the right thing. What I would like to hope that you would realize is that things such as this are not always on the extreme ends of the bell curve. Not everybody who engages in this kind of play is some creep who is looking to traumatize the individual that they are dealing with. Give a little credit where it's due. Maybe, just maybe, same gender sexual activities AREN'T going to be the end of the world for some people, even if they are straight. In My opinion, I would have to agree with the lack of understanding. I say that because I have to look at what you are basing your education on to draw the conclusions that you have on the thread. When you look at where your knowledge comes from in order to come to those conclusions may not provide you with a worthy source. The comments here remind Me of an old saying. Feelings are not facts.

chatterbox24 -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/6/2012 10:42:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 I hate to break this to you, but I was referring to the flip side, where a dom is not taking the best interest of sub in mind. Where do you get I was taking what you said and using it at all? I didnt even read your post until you mistakenly thought I Had and was referring to it. The only reason I commented further is because I saw where you said my lack of understanding was appalling. I understand that alot of people do things because they BELEIVE they have lost their power to a creep who takes advantage of that person. Call it sub frenzy, call it poor self esteem, call it whatever you want. THey believe they have no control, and no power, but they do, they just have became beat down and lost. Are there good doms out there, Im sure there are but Im speaking about the ones who ARE NOT doing the right thing. What I would like to hope that you would realize is that things such as this are not always on the extreme ends of the bell curve. Not everybody who engages in this kind of play is some creep who is looking to traumatize the individual that they are dealing with. Give a little credit where it's due. Maybe, just maybe, same gender sexual activities AREN'T going to be the end of the world for some people, even if they are straight. In My opinion, I would have to agree with the lack of understanding. I say that because I have to look at what you are basing your education on to draw the conclusions that you have on the thread. When you look at where your knowledge comes from in order to come to those conclusions may not provide you with a worthy source. The comments here remind Me of an old saying. Feelings are not facts. What is the lack of understanding? That I believe forcing someone do what they dont want to do is wrong? Or doing something to someone they dont want is wrong? You also believe I have lack of understanding because I am talking about the flip side, where a person IS DOING WRONG TO GET THEIR OWN ROCKS OFF, or have some kind of sadistic nature someone else isnt ready for but is exposed too? Give credit to what? I was talking about the total flip side not bell curves, SICK DOMS, not good ones. Give credit to criminals? Because if somoene is not gving consent to those acts many are considered criminal. Hmmm. I just shake my head to some of this bizaree thinking and rationale. Hey if someone is in a healthy state of mind and enjoy being forced, raped, their morals manipulated, feel good about that, then more power to them, but I am speaking for those, who might not be in that situation. Who feel trapped. YOu think my only education is what has been said on this forum past or present? Just like most people on here and everywhere, you see and know one tiny portion written or what someone shared on a forum. If you base everything on that, well, you cant make accurate calls. Time for a collar chat break. :) bye.

needlesandpins -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/6/2012 10:50:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seekingreality quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins ok i get your point to an extent. i say extent because i don't see what the hell it has to do with trusting the other person. i know myself best so if i say no it's for a reason and the other person should just respect that, as they expect me to respect their's. i'm not sure how someone can agree to 'no limits' when they have limits, but that's just me. but there are those that insist on the other taking part in same gender sex when the other is very adament that they are straight. i don't see how anyone can claim to be straight, have sex with the same gender and still claim to be straight when they insist that others are bi just because they allowed themselves to be 'forced'. another thing it makes me wonder is this; if it's all down to enjoying the experience what would it mean if you had been blindfold, had no idea who the other person playing with you is, and enjoyed what happened. if you cum from this does that make you bi? when the blindfold comes off you can't claim that you didn't enjoy it just because you now know that they were the same gender. therefore it is only your own mind block that tells you you are straight. needles Personally, i think you are getting too hung up on labels, and I am not a big label person. A person might enjoy "forced bi" for reasons that aren't really about the sexual experience of being with someone of the same sex -- the person who enjoys forced bi might simply get off on being directed to do something they abhore, or they might get off on doing someone to please their master/mistress even if they dislike it themselves. In that case, the sex is really just a path to humiliation. Or a person might like forced bi because they like being with someone of the same sex and don't want admit. A million diffferent ways to skin this one. I don't see the big deal in how someone chooses to label themselves. even if you are involved with them, the label they give themselves doesn't matter; it's how they define the label for you. actually you couldn't have missed my point more. i am not the one obsessed with lables. i accept whatever i am told by a person because i know that one size does not fit all. i have stated several times that if someone says they are straight, but will dabble with same gender then i accept that. i do not insist that they are bi or gay. others however do, and do so while saying that they themselves are straight.....straighter than straight......but will still have sex with the same gender if told to. so, my point is that you can't claim one thing for yourself while bashing others with the stick you deny is yours. my question about forced bi is that as it is actually done with consent of the one being told to do it, how can they keep bashing people with that stick? if you are either straight, bi or gay depending on who you fuck then you have to be bi if you have sex with both genders, forced or otherwise. another point i have made before on lables is that not one single person on this site is an actual slave. not one single person is owned, and yet they insist they are. if everyone else has to accept, and respect that then they should be the last one telling others they are not what they claim to be. for me i believe that there is no set rule, no black and white. there is a whole fricking rainbow and people can sit wherever they want. on the rest of my op, i wanted to know what others got out of it because i would not do something that i claimed i was so adverse to just for someone else's pleasure, and at the expence of my own feelings. nore could i have sex with someone i knew didn't want me to be touching them. i actually think the thread has been a good one regardless of what some others may think. so my thanks to all that have posted. needles

Marini -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/6/2012 12:44:33 PM)
quote: my question about forced bi is that as it is actually done with consent of the one being told to do it, how can they keep bashing people with that stick? if you are either straight, bi or gay depending on who you fuck then you have to be bi if you have sex with both genders, forced or otherwise. another point i have made before on lables is that not one single person on this site is an actual slave. not one single person is owned, and yet they insist they are. if everyone else has to accept, and respect that then they should be the last one telling others they are not what they claim to be. Lady, as a Black woman, whose family members were real slaves about 150 years ago, I am not going to even get started. LMAO for me i believe that there is no set rule, no black and white. there is a whole fricking rainbow and people can sit wherever they want. AMEN! on the rest of my op, i wanted to know what others got out of it because i would not do something that i claimed i was so adverse to just for someone else's pleasure, and at the expence of my own feelings. nore could i have sex with someone i knew didn't want me to be touching them. i actually think the thread has been a good one regardless of what some others may think. so my thanks to all that have posted. needles ___________________ Thank you needles for expressing what i have been saying for years, in a more eloquent manner. p.s.- I have learned that many will only submit to acts that they don't mind submitting to {wink}. Many will let you "force them to be with a member of the same sex", but as far as making them change their lives on constant or daily basis? HA! Most won't let you force them to clean the house on a daily basis/cook all the meals from scratch daily/you get my drift. People tend to forget the LARGE segment of men on this website, BEGGING for someone to "force" them into bi-sexual activities. Hard to force the willing. [:D] I have learned this is one "kink" that many have to agree to disagree on, and just keep it moving. When I see the "forced-bi" threads, I laugh and often think about all the things I BET I can't force you to do. Peace

tsatske -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/6/2012 2:14:35 PM)
My barely kinky best friend with occasional benifits is very happy to state that he is bi, he is not in the least ashamed of it. Yet what he likes is bi with a woman directing the action. Some people who like this like to call it forced bi. He rejects that label, but then he is also offended by the label slave. He is barely kinky at all, not kinky enoough for me to manage to get my freak on, and he tends to reject labels. For someone who finds that labels resonate with them, forced bi might be a very sexy label if you were a sub with a sexual prefrence such as my friends.

LadyPact -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/6/2012 3:42:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 What is the lack of understanding? That I believe forcing someone do what they dont want to do is wrong? Or doing something to someone they dont want is wrong? Ah, so in your opinion, submission is only about the things you like doing. Got it. quote: You also believe I have lack of understanding because I am talking about the flip side, where a person IS DOING WRONG TO GET THEIR OWN ROCKS OFF, or have some kind of sadistic nature someone else isnt ready for but is exposed too? Think really hard about that statement. You're labeling it wrong based on your feelings about it. quote: Give credit to what? I was talking about the total flip side not bell curves, SICK DOMS, not good ones. Give credit to criminals? Because if somoene is not gving consent to those acts many are considered criminal. Hmmm. I just shake my head to some of this bizaree thinking and rationale. Why should the total flip side even come up during a conversation about consensual dynamics? quote: Hey if someone is in a healthy state of mind and enjoy being forced, raped, their morals manipulated, feel good about that, then more power to them, but I am speaking for those, who might not be in that situation. Who feel trapped. How many M/s folks do you know? Have you run into many people who identify as slaves face to face who tell you about how trapped they are? quote: YOu think my only education is what has been said on this forum past or present? Just like most people on here and everywhere, you see and know one tiny portion written or what someone shared on a forum. If you base everything on that, well, you cant make accurate calls. Time for a collar chat break. :) bye. I'd actually love to hear about your experiences associating with long term M/s couples. Do your posts color you? Yes, they do. This is no different than someone who works in nursing, who should be more than familiar with anatomy, how nerve receptors work, and how the prostate reacts, thinking that anal play means somebody is gay. How's that for accurate? While you are taking your break from CM, maybe you'll consider learning a little more from another source. Re-take biology. Hit a munch. Go to a demo about consent/non-consent or a related topic. Additional education is never a bad thing. Often, it relieves the worst kind of ignorance.

chatterbox24 -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/7/2012 7:38:40 AM)
Re take biology? You suggest I dont know how the body works and that is why I have my own individual views? I really dont think its necessary to insult others when they have their own distinct individual thoughts on subjects. Most of what you asked I will not even bother to answer. Basically my view is two wrongs dont make it right, and your view is all wrongs make it right. Its kinda like trying to change mathematics. 2+2 doesnt equal 5. Not everything is about BDSM, btw. SOme thoughts are just thoughts, kinky thoughts dont even have to apply to the thought process or reasoning. Sometimes people just dont agree with the majority on a minority. Are they wrong? maybe. But you could be wrong too. Or maybe no one is wrong, its just an opinion? Sometimes people just cant handle diverse opinions. Lets grow up a little, IM tryng. IM not going to insult you when I think some of your views are confused and outside the box, so when you think mine are, we dont have to insult each other.

crazyml -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/7/2012 7:52:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Consider Me the straight M who enjoys the above. I seriously don't care if he gets nothing out of it. The entire venture is about pleasing Me. What I want to see him do and what I want to have the POWER to make him do is the point of it all. It's not about him opening his mouth so he can get his sexual kicks. It's about him taking cock down his throat to satisfy MY sexual kinks. It's about owning someone so completely that My will overrides his own. Kerching.

crazyml -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/7/2012 8:00:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer FR Me, I always find these sorts of issues a lot easier to deal with if I don't try to resolve them. It's neither forced, nor consensual - it's both. It's contradictory. That's why it's fun. Any takers? No? There hardly ever are. I'll buy this for a dollar. Let's take the "bi" thing out of the equation. I like humiliation. For one of my ex playmates, the most humiliating thing imaginable was to make her wet her knickers. She did not harbour a secret desire to wet her knickers. Nor did she harbour a secret desire to be made to wet her knickers. She hated wetting her knickers. But the act of doing it, the fact that she found herself choosing to obey, that left her wet and shaking. To describe this person as a closet knicker wetter who just can't admit her fetish to herself would be a silly, silly thing to do. Her fetish was the submission, the humiliation, the moment of consenting to do it despite her disgust, and her knowledge that doing so would make her v v hawny.

chatterbox24 -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/7/2012 8:09:26 AM)
Now the knicker wetting would be a case of 2+2 equals Yabba dabba dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wooooooohoooooooooo

Aswad -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/7/2012 8:52:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 IM not going to insult you when I think some of your views are confused and outside the box, so when you think mine are, we dont have to insult each other. Do you not see how some of your assessments might be insulting? Like "sick doms, not good ones" or "doing wrong to get their own rocks off". By the criterion you've provided earlier, I could probably be classified as a rapist, which might be apt to upset me a little if I cared what others' views are in that regard. No partner of mine has ever classified me thus, or felt bad about the time spent together, which is good enough for me. I get the impression it's not good enough for you. IWYW, — Aswad.

chatterbox24 -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/7/2012 10:41:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 IM not going to insult you when I think some of your views are confused and outside the box, so when you think mine are, we dont have to insult each other. Do you not see how some of your assessments might be insulting? Like "sick doms, not good ones" or "doing wrong to get their own rocks off". By the criterion you've provided earlier, I could probably be classified as a rapist, which might be apt to upset me a little if I cared what others' views are in that regard. No partner of mine has ever classified me thus, or felt bad about the time spent together, which is good enough for me. I get the impression it's not good enough for you. IWYW, — Aswad. Yes Sir, I could see how that could be taken as insulting but to me , Just because you think outside the box or someone else thinks how you view things is confused, really is not meant as an insult. I highly value my own thoughts, as well as I think Lady pact does hers. It is not insulting to me to be different. IN fact I value and enjoy diversity, not only by myself but for others. It takes guts to be different and not hide. I think there is some further confusion as to what I said earlier. Sick doms, when I had that reference, I am speaking of people who intentional hurt people against their will, when psychological damage is being done to a someone who is not quite in their facilities, and suffer greatly in the future from this. Do you do this? Do you hurt people in this way? Its really none of my business frankly. But that is what I mean by Sick Dom and if you were doing that, yes in my mind, Id put you in that category. BUt what I think doesnt mean a damn thing. Its all just personal opinions, or thoughts I have. I would also like to add, I called you sir, and I didnt mean it in a sub/dom type way. I just felt like saying sir, in a strictly vanilla way, cause believe it or not. I can be very polite when I feel like it. lol. Even to rapists and the such...Ha!.............AND IM JOKING ABOUT THE RAPIST THING, so easy people. I have a SICK humor at times.

Damacis -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/7/2012 1:55:55 PM)
quote: To describe this person as a closet knicker wetter who just can't admit her fetish to herself would be a silly, silly thing to do. Her fetish was the submission, the humiliation, the moment of consenting to do it despite her disgust, and her knowledge that doing so would make her v v hawny. This cannot be repeated enough. Perhaps by people who don't understand the humiliation dynamic, perhaps by people who are just plain ignorant, but we get a thread like this pretty much every month with multiple people chirping in how you must be a "closet x who can't admit it" if you do y activity.

Aswad -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/7/2012 2:57:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 Yes Sir, I could see how that could be taken as insulting but to me , [...], really is not meant as an insult. Thank you for clarifying on both points. [:)] quote: I think there is some further confusion as to what I said earlier. Sick doms, when I had that reference, I am speaking of people who intentional hurt people against their will, when psychological damage is being done to a someone who is not quite in their facilities, and suffer greatly in the future from this. I misunderstood, then. Fair enough. Mea culpa. quote: Do you do this? Do you hurt people in this way? No, I only hurt them against their will when it's the right thing to do for everyone involved. [:D] quote: I would also like to add, I called you sir, and I didnt mean it in a sub/dom type way. I just felt like saying sir, in a strictly vanilla way, cause believe it or not. I can be very polite when I feel like it. lol. Even to rapists and the such...Ha!.............AND IM JOKING ABOUT THE RAPIST THING, so easy people. I have a SICK humor at times. I see nothing sick about your humor, ma'am. IWYW, — Aswad.

xssve -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/7/2012 6:55:30 PM)
It's all sex, as they say in airframes. Short answer is, watching two women trying to figure out how to have sex without a cock is such a universal and compelling male fantasy, we really don't give a shit whether you like it or not. I do see your point, I don't think you can force somebody to be bi, but everybody is different: I think for most people, when it comes right down to it, it's actually less the what than the who - as woman you might not want to fuck every man you meet - and although as a man, I pretty much want to fuck every woman I meet, for practical reasons, I confine it to those who are particularly special to me or are just easy. But I imagine the same thing applies for bisexuality, i.e., there are special somebodies, and gender is simply not an issue, or you're just a slut and will fuck anything that moves, I dunno, but having thought somewhat about gender identity, I have to kind of wonder about how much of it is pure abstraction: symbolism, binary mytheme, tropes, etc., cliches, in short. To a a large extent, yes, sexual response is pretty gender specific: guys look at hip to waist ratio, women, shoulder to hip ratio, largely because sex is the biological process of reproduction: it makes sense that the respective genders would have a biological attraction for one another, because that situation has the highest probability of resulting in reproduction, but we're complex creatures, and we're all a mix of male and female - a man is just modified and specialized female really - and sex is a social, as well as a reproductive activity. So anyway, I'm practicing talking you into it, how am I doing so far?

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