RE: Do republicans even have a conscience?

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tazzygirl -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/5/2012 7:08:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Several restaurants, hotels and retailers have started or are preparing to limit schedules of hourly workers to below 30 hours a week. That is the threshold at which large employers in 2014 would have to offer workers a minimum level of insurance or pay a penalty starting at $2,000 for each worker. rofl... few of those offer much or any benefits already. And few of those workers (restaurants and hotels specifically) count on their paychecks as their main source of income. Don't tell the government but these folks make far more in gratuities....lol They used to be, mike. But, as soon as your tip hits a credit card, its going to show up on the W2.... its reported as income.

slvemike4u -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/5/2012 7:09:55 PM)
Only those tips will ever get reported Tazzy...cash never seems to make it to the w2...lol

tazzygirl -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/5/2012 7:18:06 PM)
lol.. and how many pay in cash these days. I can honestly say my last year of waiting tables, 90% of my tips were credit card.

slvemike4u -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/5/2012 7:45:39 PM)
This is true,lol For myself I always like to tip in cash,it's the memory of waiting on tables myself. Pay with the card,tip in cash. Not that I am advocating trying to avoid paying ones fair and actual tax bill(like a certain candidate for President who uses every dodge in the book both legal and just a little sketchy)

tweakabelle -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/5/2012 8:23:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave I suppose it's always easy to have a conscience with money stolen from others. Like, say, Joe Biden and Obamao. They're all too happy to care for you with my money. This kind of argument is as simplistic as it is misleading. The claim :"They're all too happy to care for you with my money" assumes the speaker will derive no benefit whatsoever from the US Govt for the entirety of their existence. I would have thought it is impossible to live in a modern society without enjoying some benefit from Govt on a daily basis, whether that is merely the use of public roads, or enjoying public security or something more substantial like welfare or health benefits. Once it is accepted that the speaker will derive some benefit from Govt the claim's impact collapses completely. There are people who will not ever get welfare benefits from the Federal Gov't. outside of a small bit of SSI and Medicare. There are some that will pay in a vast amount more than they will ever get out, paying for those who don't pay in as much and get a lot more out. You can mince words all you want, and I'm sure you will continue, but there just are some things you can't obfuscate your way out of. Yes there are such people. I am one of them. I pay thousands more in taxes than I receive in benefits every year. But I'm happy to do so as it ensures I, and all Australian residents get free at delivery cradle-to-grave quality healthcare and there is a comprehensive safety net for those on the margins of society, as well as all the other services Govt supplies in modern societies. If the US Govt didn't squander the hundreds of billions it does on the military annually, and instead focussed on supplying those services that Govts can supply efficiently to its citizens (eg healthcare) I suspect I'd hear a lot less of the whinging I hear from Americans on this topic. quote: quote: If the speaker has in mind only those who benefit from Govt welfare and health systems, it should be noted that recipients of these benefits very rarely retain any savings - the benefit they receive is spent in toto, re-circulating through the economy helping to keep businesses of all sorts and the local economy afloat. So the beneficiaries of Govt benefits are many and may ultimately be the recipient's landlord, supermarket owner or some such service provider. Again the claim's impact collapses entirely. Yes, that money goes into the economy. But, just like the much debunked "broken window" fallacy, you don't take into account what that money would have been used for had it stayed with the person that earned it. To take your "logic" to it's ultimate conclusion, the Government should provide everything for everyone, regardless of what that person does. But, who is going to produce? Who is going to provide that which the government doles out? Your claim here may or may not be valid (For instance, there's no guarantee that the $ saved will get spent at all, or invested prudently - they could all get squandered on a new Porsche, or more cocaine). But it's relevancy is questionable and it does seem to concede my argument that the simplistic "The Govt is spending my tax $ on you" approach is stupid. quote: quote: The claim is so inaccurate that it cannot have a basis in economic reality. One is tempted to consider that it is instead motivated by the usual emotions that fuel Right wing claims - fear, greed, selfishness and insecurity. If Government continued to take more from you and put more and more layers of regulation on business, you'd feel a bit insecure, too, unless you were one of those relying on government to give to you. As explained above I am one of those people who pays far more than they get back and I don't begrudge the money. In fact I'd happily pay more if it meant improved services to those that need them. And all that makes me feel more secure not less. I imagine I am far from unique in that respect. I do recall a few opinion polls here some years ago to confirm that most Aussies share that feeling. So I guess you have a bit of figuring out to do.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/5/2012 8:56:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Yes there are such people. I am one of them. I pay thousands more in taxes than I receive in benefits every year. But I'm happy to do so as it ensures I, and all Australian residents get free at delivery cradle-to-grave quality healthcare and there is a comprehensive safety net for those on the margins of society, as well as all the other services Govt supplies in modern societies. If the US Govt didn't squander the hundreds of billions it does on the military annually, and instead focussed on supplying those services that Govts can supply efficiently to its citizens (eg healthcare) I suspect I'd hear a lot less of the whinging I hear from Americans on this topic. Good Lord, we do need to spend less on Defense. And, we need to stop playing World cop. And, we need to close our foreign bases and get our troops home. But, if they took that money and spent it on healthcare, that money will still be spent, and we'd still be running deficits. That's the BS the Democrats here are relying on people not noticing. Obama stated that he's going to take half the money we are currently spending on Afghanistan to pay down the debt, and the other half to "nation-build" in the US. If half the money spent on Afghanistan isn't enough to cover your deficits, you can't "pay down the debt." To wit, if he were to take the entire Defense budget and apply it to "paying down the debt," we'd still run deficits. quote: Your claim here may or may not be valid (For instance, there's no guarantee that the $ saved will get spent at all, or invested prudently - they could all get squandered on a new Porsche, or more cocaine). But it's relevancy is questionable and it does seem to concede my argument that the simplistic "The Govt is spending my tax $ on you" approach is stupid. Unless the money gets put into a mattress, or buried in a bucket in the backyard, it's being used in the economy. It might not be getting the owner much interest, but that doesn't mean it isn't allowing someone else to get a loan to expand, buy a car or a house, or whatever. Deposits were supposed to provide the liquidity for banks to loan money out (via fractional reserve banking). I believe the limit is still 10-1, so for every $100 in deposits, the bank can loan out $1000. quote: As explained above I am one of those people who pays far more than they get back and I don't begrudge the money. In fact I'd happily pay more if it meant improved services to those that need them. And all that makes me feel more secure not less. I imagine I am far from unique in that respect. I do recall a few opinion polls here some years ago to confirm that most Aussies share that feeling. So I guess you have a bit of figuring out to do. Then, why aren't Aussie's paying more for improved services? Are there no services to improve?

JanahX -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/5/2012 9:03:46 PM)
.09 cents of individual tax dollars per year go towards welfare. I understand ... how you dont want to part with that 9 cents. Its really going to break your budget. http://myesoteric.hubpages.com/hub/How-Much-of-Your-Tax-Dollar-Really-Does-Go-to-Help-the-Free-Loading-Indigent-Ought-to-Get-a-Job-Americans [image]local://upfiles/1059980/8926B9CB222E472BA228279E5D95F21E.jpg[/image]

DesideriScuri -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/5/2012 9:12:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JanahX .09 cents of individual tax dollars per year go towards welfare. I understand ... how you dont want to part with that 9 cents. Its really going to break your budget. http://myesoteric.hubpages.com/hub/How-Much-of-Your-Tax-Dollar-Really-Does-Go-to-Help-the-Free-Loading-Indigent-Ought-to-Get-a-Job-Americans [image]local://upfiles/1059980/8926B9CB222E472BA228279E5D95F21E.jpg[/image] Well, it's only 9 cents, eh? I'll send them $9.00 and won't have to pay any more for 100 years. Since it's such a pittance and won't break my budget, how about you taking on my portion? It's only 9 cents.

Edwynn -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/5/2012 9:14:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri If Government continued to take more from you and put more and more layers of regulation on business, you'd feel a bit insecure, too, unless you were one of those relying on government to give to you. Sorry you missed it, nice cave you live in there, etc., but the country has been on an un-tax-and-spend, deregulation tear for the last 30 years. The spending was on unwarranted invasions, and bailouts resulting from the the predictable (and predicted) consequences of deregulation. And to ensure that the hit to the deficit would come from both sides, at least 5 different uncalled for and completely irrational tax cuts were enacted along with. As I said, un-tax-and-spend, along with killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, putting millions out of home and job domestically, and generally lowering our standing in the world in every way imaginable, along with lowering the standard of living in this country, have been SOP for some years now. That's worked out well, hasn't it? True what you say, though, about those relying on what government gives them feeling more secure. There hasn't been any time in the last 100 years when oil companies, agro-chem, military ('defense'), pharma, and especially the financial industry, have felt more secure in their position than what they most assuredly feel now, given the unprecedented favorable recent history regarding such phenomenal munificence from the government to their quarter, in every regard.

JanahX -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/5/2012 9:29:19 PM)
I already paid my 9 cents this year thank you. And if it will make you feel better so you can use that ten dollars to go eat a Big Mac and fries - I would happily pay your 10.00. I wouldnt want to see you starve.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/6/2012 6:09:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri If Government continued to take more from you and put more and more layers of regulation on business, you'd feel a bit insecure, too, unless you were one of those relying on government to give to you. Sorry you missed it, nice cave you live in there, etc., but the country has been on an un-tax-and-spend, deregulation tear for the last 30 years. The spending was on unwarranted invasions, and bailouts resulting from the the predictable (and predicted) consequences of deregulation. And to ensure that the hit to the deficit would come from both sides, at least 5 different uncalled for and completely irrational tax cuts were enacted along with. As I said, un-tax-and-spend, along with killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, putting millions out of home and job domestically, and generally lowering our standing in the world in every way imaginable, along with lowering the standard of living in this country, have been SOP for some years now. That's worked out well, hasn't it? Outside of the bullshit talking points... um... yep... nothing there. quote: True what you say, though, about those relying on what government gives them feeling more secure. There hasn't been any time in the last 100 years when oil companies, agro-chem, military ('defense'), pharma, and especially the financial industry, have felt more secure in their position than what they most assuredly feel now, given the unprecedented favorable recent history regarding such phenomenal munificence from the government to their quarter, in every regard. And, we both agree that we need to separate Government from Big Money. Cutting the influence of money in DC is of prime importance, and much of that can be done by reducing the amount of money Government controls. But, do go on with your rhetoric and other BS.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/6/2012 6:11:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JanahX I already paid my 9 cents this year thank you. And if it will make you feel better so you can use that ten dollars to go eat a Big Mac and fries - I would happily pay your 10.00. I wouldnt want to see you starve. Why wouldn't you pay my 9 cents? I'm sure you believe in it's use far more than I do, and that you believe in my eating habits far less than I do. And, I would much rather go to the grocery store with $10 than drop it at McD's, but thanks for the concern.

Yachtie -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/6/2012 6:29:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u This is true,lol For myself I always like to tip in cash,it's the memory of waiting on tables myself. Pay with the card,tip in cash. Not that I am advocating trying to avoid paying ones fair and actual tax bill(like a certain candidate for President who uses every dodge in the book both legal and just a little sketchy) But you are dear boy. You are. [:D]

Moonhead -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/6/2012 7:00:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl lol.. and how many pay in cash these days. I can honestly say my last year of waiting tables, 90% of my tips were credit card. Which really isn't on. For heaven's sake, if you're paying with a card, there's nothing to stop you keeping a few notes in your wallet to tip the waitrons. It's a lot less hassle for everybody...

slvemike4u -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/6/2012 7:12:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u This is true,lol For myself I always like to tip in cash,it's the memory of waiting on tables myself. Pay with the card,tip in cash. Not that I am advocating trying to avoid paying ones fair and actual tax bill(like a certain candidate for President who uses every dodge in the book both legal and just a little sketchy) But you are dear boy. You are. [:D] No shit,I have a habit of knowing what I write...and knowing when my tongue is firmly planted in cheek. But you keep going along and thinking there is some equivalency with a waiter fudging his returns and your candidate fucking shipping money out of the country...in other words fudging on a grand fucking scale !

Yachtie -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/6/2012 7:33:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u But you keep going along and thinking there is some equivalency with a waiter fudging his returns and your candidate fucking shipping money out of the country...in other words fudging on a grand fucking scale ! Guess it's just a matter of degree with you. Like an employee ripping off a few bucks here and there versus big time thousands. You're not a man of principle, are you!

Edwynn -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/6/2012 7:38:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri If Government continued to take more from you and put more and more layers of regulation on business, you'd feel a bit insecure, too, unless you were one of those relying on government to give to you. Sorry you missed it, nice cave you live in there, etc., but the country has been on an un-tax-and-spend, deregulation tear for the last 30 years. The spending was on unwarranted invasions, and bailouts resulting from the the predictable (and predicted) consequences of deregulation. And to ensure that the hit to the deficit would come from both sides, at least 5 different uncalled for and completely irrational tax cuts were enacted along with. As I said, un-tax-and-spend, along with killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, putting millions out of home and job domestically, and generally lowering our standing in the world in every way imaginable, along with lowering the standard of living in this country, have been SOP for some years now. That's worked out well, hasn't it? Outside of the bullshit talking points... um... yep... nothing there. If you consider the Garn - St Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982 and the resultant S&L 'crisis' 5 years later, the firing of the FDA commissioner at the behest of G.D. Searle's Donald Rumsfeldt , the letting go of Volker from the Fed after he did the dirty work of subduing high inflation, to bring in a reliably hands-off Greenspan, The free marketeers Rubin and Summers brought in by Clinton, the Phil Gramm-sponsored and spearheaded Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and Commodities Futures trading Act, with disastrous results that we'll be dealing with for rears to come, etc., to be "bullshit talking points," as opposed to actual recorded events, then that would go a long way towards explaining the problem here. quote: And, we both agree that we need to separate Government from Big Money. Cutting the influence of money in DC is of prime importance, and much of that can be done by reducing the amount of money Government controls. Even more could be done to that end by reducing the amount of money that controls Government.

slvemike4u -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/6/2012 7:45:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: ElChupa to answer the stupid topic... why you found us out! I want to take away obama phones. There, I said it. Now the bloods will have to shout or walk over to their drug dealers to make a deal instead of using free phones. There. I said it. Now go riot. YEEE hawwww! I would rather cut my own throat than be on the same side of an aisle or an issue as this character. And yet there are scores of folks,a few right here at collarme,who feel they are wholly reasonable and yet this is their ideological brother. How do they live with that ? How do you live with the bigots on your side of the fence? Bigots on my side of the fence are denounced and dis-encouraged in their ways. Your side embraces and encourages it's bigot up till the point they forget the dog whistle code phrases and come right out with their bigotry and biases.....when that happens y'all just stay silent. See the difference ? (by the way,this is the second time you have engaged me,both times ,in my opinion,the answer was not were you were looking for.As a matter of fact I believe the term is "got your fingers burned"...why don't you just stop,unless of course you enjoy verbal spankings. I mean if that is your kink.....all good and all [:)])

Kirata -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/6/2012 7:48:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Bigots on my side of the fence are denounced and dis-encouraged in their ways. Really? That's odd. I've never seen you denounce or "dis-encourage" yourself in the slightest. [:D] K.

slvemike4u -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/6/2012 7:50:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u But you keep going along and thinking there is some equivalency with a waiter fudging his returns and your candidate fucking shipping money out of the country...in other words fudging on a grand fucking scale ! Guess it's just a matter of degree with you. Like an employee ripping off a few bucks here and there versus big time thousands. You're not a man of principle, are you! Actually I am...You see while I know both are an issue...I also know which one of the two is,or should be,the fucking priority. And given that of the two examples I put forth only one is running for President of my country....only one is a pants on fire top notch urgent fucking priority. But you keep trying to equate them.....[:D]

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