Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (Full Version)

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orgasmdenial12 -> Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/4/2012 10:36:11 PM)

So, here's my problem.

After meeting and playing with a new partner, it has become painfully obvious to me that I am a submissive, and not a slave. I'm argumentative, I want to say no, sometimes I think his decisions are stupid, etc.

I know many of you will want to react already to want I'm saying, but please bear with me, I'm trying to write my truth here and in some ways it's not easy.

At the same time that I'm an, at best, wilful, bratty submissive, he's an intense, no limits (or very few limits) Master who has no problem finding partners to happily agree to and accept his pretty wild ways. That's what he's used to.

So when we get together, amazing sparks fly - I love how completely overpowering and demanding he is, and it calls forth a level of submission from me that I've never known before. He loves my cheeky personality and the banter and the way that seeing me submit to whole new levels gives him a rush that he's never had before - he admitted that even after all his years playing, he got 'Dom space' and 'Dom drop' with me and he'd never had that before. At the same time, he's highly impressed with what I can take, and what I'm willing to do for him, and we're attracted to each other on a deep level.

So the play, and the sex, and the emotions are all pushing us to be together, the thought of not being together is awful. But the problem is that there are things he wants to do that I simply can't imagine doing, making myself do or even being forced to do. When he tells me stories of what he got up to with previous slaves, my heart literally stops beating in sheer horror. I can't be that person - I don't want to be that person. I don't want to be a no-limits slave, I like my limits, all of them! Twice recently he has wanted me to do something that I really don't want to do, and I've ended up saying no, and then we've had a bust up and said we're not compatible and attempted to walk away from each other. But then, because of all the good points between us, we make up and get back together. Only to repeat the same behaviour the next time.

Part of the problem is that when it comes to these forbidden tasks, I want him to encourage, persuade and coax me - I want him to train me and make it doable for me - whereas he wants brute obedience, obeying just for the sake of it. If he has to persuade, then it's no fun for him. He gets frustrated by my lack of obedience, and I get frustrated that he wants me to be something I'm not.

So, after all this, my question is - what happens when a submissive has a relationship with a Master? Can it ever work or is it doomed to failure? Beyond all the usual platitudes and advice, does anyone have any insights or stories to share that might help? If your gut instinct is telling you that it's not going to work, is it worth trying to make it work anyway?

Thank you xxx




sexyred1 -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/4/2012 10:39:12 PM)

Thats a tough one.

I am not a slave either; I am a sub. I know how it is to be with someone who you have major sparks with but it does not work on other levels.

I have spent too much time trying to make chemistry work over compatibility.

I am not sure how to advise you because there are things that I cannot do either.

Hopefully someone else will come along and help you more!




myotherself -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/4/2012 11:35:48 PM)

OK, here's my slave perspective.

Like you, I started out my relationship as Dom/sub. To be honest, the first 3 months were totally vanilla AND sex-free, at my insistence. Once I decided there was more to us than just bdsm, we became Dom/sub. It continued this way for over a year, until one day we realised that it had actually moved on to being a Master/slave relationship.

However, I did not agree to M/s immediately. We talked. A lot. We thrashed out as many of the possible future scenarios that we could think of to see whether I could handle them as a slave. We endlessly discussed hard limits and how he would deal with it if he was to insist I breached one.

In short, it took best part of 2 years for us to become M/s. I can't imagine how on earth anyone can do it without at least a year of being together and a long, long time sorting through any possible issues.

IMO - it's just too quick. Talk to him, go back to being D/s and continue to talk. If in 6 months (or 9 months or 12 months or whatever you feel is appropriate) you think you (and I mean "you" singular, not both of you) are ready to be a slave, then is the time to move forward.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/4/2012 11:49:55 PM)

Of course a master can't be satisfied with a submissive lady. What man could? Everyone knows that slaves are somehow better than submissive ladies. They're more ... Okay they do more ... Alright, that isn't it ... Hmmmmm ...

OP, I noticed that you say things like:

quote:

it has become painfully obvious to me that I am a submissive, and not a slave. I'm argumentative, I want to say no, ...


and:

quote:

At the same time that I'm an, at best, wilful, bratty submissive ...


I beg you to go and look up the word "submit".

Now, I am not talking about this in a "bedroom only" kind of way. I am talking about as a lifestyle.

You may want to consider the idea that you're a masochist and not a submissive. It happens. People come into the lifestyle and assume (or are wrongfully instructed) that one automatically means the other and they don't.



Peace and comfort,



Michael




GreedyTop -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/4/2012 11:54:16 PM)

OK.. I have to admit that I agree with DS *GASP*!! This doesn't happen often.....




BoundSlave4Life -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 2:43:32 AM)

The other side of the coin --- Can a slave be satisfied with a Dominant, or a switch?




Toysinbabeland -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 3:17:00 AM)

quote:




Part of the problem is that when it comes to these forbidden tasks, I want him to encourage, persuade and coax me - I want him to train me and make it doable for me - whereas he wants brute obedience, obeying just for the sake of it. If he has to persuade, then it's no fun for him. He gets frustrated by my lack of obedience, and I get frustrated that he wants me to be something I'm not.











Of course it is natural for you to want or to crave his training.
This element of need erases any feelings of fault that you may have felt.
It justifies your acceptance to leave the responsibility to your D.


However,
It seems that if he wants brute obedience for you to breach your limits, he has broken the illusion of trust.
You cannot walk a tight rope at 100 feet in the air the first time with no net, and anyone that expects you not to balk should be assessed.
A D has so many responsibilities to those he owns, and one of them is proper preparation for untraveled roads.


I liken this to not giving a 16 year old a ferrari, he's just not going to take care of what he owns right.


Those that push without concern to what it is doing internally are a huge red flag.

That's not to say you can't be pushed there...sometimes you should be, especially if you want it, it's simply to point out that you need to ask him why he thinks that blind submission of hard limits is not irresponsible on his part.

It's so much better when your D knows what he's doing.

When they don't, they tend to ” expect”
When they do they usually don't even need to ask.

Good luck to you both.





ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 3:32:00 AM)

quote:

However,
It seems that if he wants brute obedience for you to beach your limits, he has broken the illusion of trust.
You cannot walk a tight rope at 100 feet in the air the first time with no net, and anyone that expects you not to balk should be assessed.
A D has so many responsibilities to those he owns, and one of them is proper preparation for untraveled roads.


Toy's statement above is at the heart of this matter. Pushing someone before they are ready is a major breach of trust. MAJOR BREACH of TRUST.

You don't say how long you've been together, but I'm thinking months? MOS's perspective is much more reasonable.

quote:

I can't imagine how on earth anyone can do it without at least a year of being together and a long, long time sorting through any possible issues.

IMO - it's just too quick. Talk to him, go back to being D/s and continue to talk. If in 6 months (or 9 months or 12 months or whatever you feel is appropriate) you think you (and I mean "you" singular, not both of you) are ready to be a slave, then is the time to move forward.


Please sit him down for a serious talk about this, and if he can't agree to YOUR timeline, he's not the dom for you (in my mind, he's not the dom for anyone).

A good dominant will do whatever it takes to build a solid foundation of trust. A good dominant knows you do not push a sub to follow YOUR own timeline, but adopt the *sub's* timeline. Many subs can be 'bullied" into being pushed, but that doesn't engender trust.

This bullying and impatient behavior is a sign that this man is NOT a good dominant (to me). He appears to want to break you down instead of letting you get there naturally.

Notice I didn't get into the sub/slave definition? Those definitions are so variable as to be specific to a particular couple, and so aren't terribly beneficial in my mind.




DarkSteven -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 4:25:53 AM)

The most important thing is that both of you want the relationship to work. Neither one of you is going to get 100% of what you want, but if you're BOTH willing to work on that...

Good luck.




ARIES83 -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 4:50:12 AM)

Hmmm, I think if it was worth breaking up over
the only way getting back togeather is going to
be any different the next time round is if either,
you no longer have the limit or he no longer wants
to push past that limit.
Otherwise your back in the same boat as far as I
can see...

I actually see it (from what you've said) that the
ball is probably in his court. You seem to be in the
right place in wanting to please him but the kind of
"obey me or leave" type of thing really is IMO
Not going to cut it in this situation.
Lets face it, if that was his position why are you
back together...
Working on things is great and all but unless he's
got a bag of tricks to actually help you over come
these limits, nothings changed.

So I don't know... If you can't overcome these
things by yourself, and he's not actually
structuring the type of activities and situations to
help you along, history is bound to repeat itself.

At the end of the day, if being that "no limits slave"
is something you really really don't want to be,
and he isn't going to be happy with anything less...

Then that conversation probably needs to happen
sooner rather than later.

Not the most helpful post, but it's the best I got.
Best of luck,
-Aries




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 5:26:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

The most important thing is that both of you want the relationship to work. Neither one of you is going to get 100% of what you want, but if you're BOTH willing to work on that...

Good luck.



I beg to disagree *entirely* with your statement. That both want the relationship to work is not the most important thing. The most important thing is that he is willing to push her to the point he is breaching the trust between them for the rush of "instant obedience."

Limits should be pushed slowly and with great caution, because (in my never humble opinion) complete obedience, like complete submission, should not be rushed.

That's *not* how you end up with the slave of your dreams, that's how you end up with a relationship mess.





mnottertail -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 5:28:39 AM)

NM.  Wrong thread.  I feel so cheap. 




SimplyMichael -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 7:34:20 AM)

quote:

The problem is that when it comes to these forbidden tasks, I want him to encourage, persuade and coax me - I want him to train me and make it doable for me - whereas he wants brute obedience, obeying just for the sake of it. If he has to persuade, then it's no fun for him. He gets frustrated by my lack of obedience, and I get frustrated that he wants me to be something I'm not. 


Amazing chemistry is rare as hell, fight for it.

For some, obedience must be immediate or its no deal.

I do NOT belong that school of thought. To me, submission is a journey, it is a small flame that is slowly coaxed into a raging inferno.

He may or may not have the patience or skills to do this for you. You ARE that slave...for the right man.




SpaceSpank -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 7:49:33 AM)

"can" a Master be satisfied with a submissive who isn't a slave (which is what you're really asking).

Well, yes. But it depends.

However, there's nothing in what you described that's inherent to that question. You have limits... many slaves have limits too, it's just that they may never encounter a Master who enjoys them, meaning they are never a problem.

Every person is different... I don't see how this person can jump into a new relationship and expect that every single time their new partner will simply be up for anything/everything they ever want to do. Maybe he's been lucky so far, but that doesn't mean it won't happen... In fact, it just has happened, with you.

If he's not willing to take the time to work you through things, that speaks far more to his failings than anything else. You're willing, if not eager, to be pushed... he doesn't want to push, he just wants it to fall in place. That's pretty lame if you ask me.


quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

So, here's my problem.

After meeting and playing with a new partner, it has become painfully obvious to me that I am a submissive, and not a slave. I'm argumentative, I want to say no, sometimes I think his decisions are stupid, etc.

I know many of you will want to react already to want I'm saying, but please bear with me, I'm trying to write my truth here and in some ways it's not easy.

At the same time that I'm an, at best, wilful, bratty submissive, he's an intense, no limits (or very few limits) Master who has no problem finding partners to happily agree to and accept his pretty wild ways. That's what he's used to.

So when we get together, amazing sparks fly - I love how completely overpowering and demanding he is, and it calls forth a level of submission from me that I've never known before. He loves my cheeky personality and the banter and the way that seeing me submit to whole new levels gives him a rush that he's never had before - he admitted that even after all his years playing, he got 'Dom space' and 'Dom drop' with me and he'd never had that before. At the same time, he's highly impressed with what I can take, and what I'm willing to do for him, and we're attracted to each other on a deep level.

So the play, and the sex, and the emotions are all pushing us to be together, the thought of not being together is awful. But the problem is that there are things he wants to do that I simply can't imagine doing, making myself do or even being forced to do. When he tells me stories of what he got up to with previous slaves, my heart literally stops beating in sheer horror. I can't be that person - I don't want to be that person. I don't want to be a no-limits slave, I like my limits, all of them! Twice recently he has wanted me to do something that I really don't want to do, and I've ended up saying no, and then we've had a bust up and said we're not compatible and attempted to walk away from each other. But then, because of all the good points between us, we make up and get back together. Only to repeat the same behaviour the next time.

Part of the problem is that when it comes to these forbidden tasks, I want him to encourage, persuade and coax me - I want him to train me and make it doable for me - whereas he wants brute obedience, obeying just for the sake of it. If he has to persuade, then it's no fun for him. He gets frustrated by my lack of obedience, and I get frustrated that he wants me to be something I'm not.

So, after all this, my question is - what happens when a submissive has a relationship with a Master? Can it ever work or is it doomed to failure? Beyond all the usual platitudes and advice, does anyone have any insights or stories to share that might help? If your gut instinct is telling you that it's not going to work, is it worth trying to make it work anyway?

Thank you xxx





Missokyst -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 8:07:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
When he tells me stories of what he got up to with previous slaves, my heart literally stops beating in sheer horror. I can't be that person -


Damn... how tacky. He tells you intimate details of what he did with prior partners? First, notice that they are not in his life now, for what ever reason. Perhaps it was those things had something to do with it? Second, you DO know that when he finds the next partner tales of your sex life will be open for discussion, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
Part of the problem is that when it comes to these forbidden tasks, I want him to encourage, persuade and coax me - I want him to train me and make it doable for me - whereas he wants brute obedience, obeying just for the sake of it.


It sounds like you two have a difference in style, has nothing to do with him being a "master" and you being submissive. As for forbidden tasks, it is hard for me to imagine what those might be. But, in my view limits are things I have for my partner. I, myself have few hard limits but I have a TON of limits for men I am playing with until I know that going down those roads are unlikely to damage us if things went awry. Limits disappear as I determine how much I can trust him. It is not so much being coaxed into things as it is relaxing my gaurd.


quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
So, after all this, my question is - what happens when a submissive has a relationship with a Master?


Is he a master? It is more than a title. If he can't master you, then at the very least he is not your master.




OsideGirl -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 8:15:18 AM)



Personally, I'm more concerned with WHO they are rather than WHAT they are (or say they are).

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12


Part of the problem is that when it comes to these forbidden tasks, I want him to encourage, persuade and coax me - I want him to train me and make it doable for me - whereas he wants brute obedience, obeying just for the sake of it. If he has to persuade, then it's no fun for him. He gets frustrated by my lack of obedience, and I get frustrated that he wants me to be something I'm not.




This paragraph jumped out at me. Being someone's submissive or slave isn't like throwing a switch...and kazam, you're the perfect "slub". It's learned behavior and it takes trust being earned. IMO, someone asking for instant obedience and trust isn't someone that has a realistic view of what it takes.




theRose4U -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 8:30:41 AM)

I'm smelling bullshit! Just because he TELLS you he did things that make your heart stop with "twue no wimit swaves" doesn't mean these women exsist!!! I'm smelling a sadits that gets off on I want what I want & will bully until they give in or discard ruining self esteem on the way out the door. He's getting off more from making you go farther than before than the task at hand.

If this works for you for whatever reason make him learn patience. Respect is earned trust is earned & he doesn't seem to want to earn anything. I want I want gimmie gimmie stops being cute about age 2. Its certainly not attractive. In someone pushing for edge play...forget edge play & no limits early on.

My vote is these women exsist in his spank bank or left because he's selfish and/or caused them injury/harm. Someone that has to bully isn't dominant & certainly hasnmastered themselves!!




SimplyMichael -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 8:47:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

I'm smelling bullshit! Just because he TELLS you he did things that make your heart stop with "twue no wimit swaves" doesn't mean these women exsist!!! I'm smelling a sadits that gets off on I want what I want & will bully until they give in or discard ruining self esteem on the way out the door. He's getting off more from making you go farther than before than the task at hand.

If this works for you for whatever reason make him learn patience. Respect is earned trust is earned & he doesn't seem to want to earn anything. I want I want gimmie gimmie stops being cute about age 2. Its certainly not attractive. In someone pushing for edge play...forget edge play & no limits early on.

My vote is these women exsist in his spank bank or left because he's selfish and/or caused them injury/harm. Someone that has to bully isn't dominant & certainly hasnmastered themselves!!


While you might be right, I know lots of people who fit this bill in real life. Hell, when I was new to the scene, running a major group and pretty.much a clueless douche, I had women throwing themselves at me. Left a trail of wreckage behind me to! Most who act this way tend to.have lots of short term relationships or have a primary they keep around as a spare while they chase young.pussy that comes and goes.

Dont miss those days a bit though, I know what magic awaits when you take the time to create something deep and profound.




OsideGirl -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 9:01:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael


While you might be right, I know lots of people who fit this bill in real life. Hell, when I was new to the scene, running a major group and pretty.much a clueless douche, I had women throwing themselves at me. Left a trail of wreckage behind me to! Most who act this way tend to.have lots of short term relationships or have a primary they keep around as a spare while they chase young.pussy that comes and goes.

Dont miss those days a bit though, I know what magic awaits when you take the time to create something deep and profound.


That's a good point too, Michael. If someone has had a lot of submissives/slaves, it's usually not a good thing. It usually means that they go through them like underwear and/or are incapable of having a long term relationship.




GreedyTop -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 9:07:08 AM)

~FR~

It's nice seeing you posting more often, again, Michael...




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