RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (Full Version)

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JanahX -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 6:10:00 PM)

Since she hasnt mentioned what it is that he wants her to do - (or if she has - I just didnt read it)

(Im going to use an example here that in my book is way extreme) and lets say its oh ... J9 (use your imagination) how would anyone mentally prepare someone for something like that? Make them feel that its okay because its something that the other really desires? I would think that would be along the lines of brain washing and have real aftermath consequences of fucking someone up - especially if its something that is beyond their consideration.

Now - question ponders, is preparing someone mentally here the same as talking someone into doing something that they dont want to do? - Is "training" someone the same as pressing someone against their core values?

I have a problem with whatever being considered "OK" if the other person is "properly trained". - this to me has seven shades of WRONG all over it.


On the other side of the coin - I have to rationalize that these are two adults and if one consents to letting the other do something like this - then its all good in the hood - consequences be damned.



BoundSlave4Life -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 6:13:11 PM)

**Note** I did NOT read this whole thread. Just some of it.


Here's another thing I wanted to mention since I'm getting glances of it through this thread.

I have a friend who is a submissive, and she WAS with a "Master". She was with this "Master" for 3 years. He made a huge contract, list of rules ect. He would expect every one of them to be followed to the letter.
Sometimes she didn't, for whatever reason. She may not have been able to, or sometimes simply acted out and disobeyed. She didn't get punished or corrected in any shape or form, so she started acting out more and more and more, and he just sat there, and whined that she wouldn't obey. Didn't correct her. Didn't punish her. Just whined.
She started to feel more and more like there was a severe lack of control, and he went around stating to people that she was just a "Project" to him after him "Owning" her for 3 years.
While I'm a firm believer that a slave's training is never complete, I am also a believer that a Master's duties to keep a slave in line is also never complete.

Another thing you have to ask yourself -- Do you "back talk" or second guess because you're "Testing" him to see if he'll do anything, or are you just doing it because you don't see yourself submitting to the level as a slave would?
I myself as a slave do push my Master all the time because I want Master to assert himself, demand and maintain control, which Master does.

Is it possible that you're "Acting out" because you feel a lack of control on the part of your Master?



OsideGirl -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 6:18:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX


Now - question ponders, is preparing someone mentally here the same as talking someone into doing something that they dont want to do? - Is "training" someone the same as pressing someone against their core values?


I'm with you on this Janah.

They're in a new relationship. He wants her to drink his urine.....in a new relationship. She doesn't want to...she not quite sure why she doesn't want to, but she doesn't.

In a new relationship I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, "I'm not ready to do that yet". It's an extremely intimate and trust needed act. The relationship isn't there yet. Pushing me into something that I'm not ready for isn't something that can be "trained", it's only something that trust and intimacy can achieve. If he's not willing to work on the trust and intimacy, then why bother?





LanceHughes -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 7:29:44 PM)

The original post is EXACTLY the plot of "50 Shades of Grey."

I thought we were going to get a reveal that said, "Haha. Come back and comment after you've read the first volume."

What happens to Anastasia (Steele - how very subtle - NOT!) is given line by line by the OP.  The first book ends with a cliff-hanger (DUH!) that Christian (Grey) has beat her ass heavily in a non-negotiated way.  She leaves.  They had been having a good time with some beginning type stuff and she wanted him to "coax her to want more."

"So, what happens in the beginning of the second book, Lance?" you ask.  She renegotiates the whole "contract" idea.  She wants no more contract and he agrees.  They get back to a slower pace of introducing BDSM play.  (Lordy.... every other page somebody is licking or fucking or sucking.)  He has her wear ben-wha balls to a charity gig under the fab dress.  And then he takes her home and (Lordy.... every other page somebody is licking or fucking or sucking.)

He does have photo proof of the previous slaves - anti-blackmail material.  Of course, he's rich, really rich, handsome, 27, and flies his own helicopter and glider, sails his own yacht.  Oh, did I say he's rich?

So, we learn from this excellent guide to BDSM is that Masters do fall in love and that the answer to the OP is

COMMUNI-fucking-CATE! 



theRose4U -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 8:25:46 PM)


quote:

  Of course, he's rich, really rich, handsome, 27, and flies his own helicopter and glider, sails his own yacht.  Oh, did I say he's rich?


Where do o find one of these? They were back-orderer at subs-r-us & wouldn't give me a rain check even on the private pilot model. [X(][X(]



Spiritedsub2 -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 8:56:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Amazing chemistry is rare as hell, fight for it.



I agree with this. Do other people find amazing chemistry so easily that its importance lags behind the degree of obedience or standards of protocol they want? Lucky them. I think amazing chemistry is the rarest of finds, and once found, is the very best reason there is to take the time to help the relationship blossom. That patience is particularly needed when the Master has been around for decades, and the new sub or future slave a few weeks.



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 10:13:24 PM)

From Janah:

quote:

(Im going to use an example here that in my book is way extreme) and lets say its oh ... J9 (use your imagination) how would anyone mentally prepare someone for something like that? Make them feel that its okay because its something that the other really desires? I would think that would be along the lines of brain washing and have real aftermath consequences of fucking someone up - especially if its something that is beyond their consideration.


That you have amazing chemistry with a person is a wonderful thing -- if that person has your best interests at heart.

My ex-husband and I shared "amazing chemistry" -- that didn't make him any less abusive. What it did was make it incredibly hard to understand what was happening to me, b/c I was committed to him. It also made it difficult to get out, even after I realized I had to.

You know, trust can be a fragile thing. You can spend months or even years building it, and it can be destroyed in seconds.



RemoteUser -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/5/2012 10:44:05 PM)

I don't think anyone is qualified to tell you what you can do here, OP. This strikes me as a case of what he can dish out, what you can take, and how the whole meal is served. (I'm a passable cook but I won't take up space in an occupied kitchen. Take the time to determine what you need, communicate it, and things will happen as they should.)

~ Emeril, "Passing Out the Gas Masks"



LaTigresse -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/6/2012 4:20:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

From Janah:

quote:

(Im going to use an example here that in my book is way extreme) and lets say its oh ... J9 (use your imagination) how would anyone mentally prepare someone for something like that? Make them feel that its okay because its something that the other really desires? I would think that would be along the lines of brain washing and have real aftermath consequences of fucking someone up - especially if its something that is beyond their consideration.


That you have amazing chemistry with a person is a wonderful thing -- if that person has your best interests at heart.

My ex-husband and I shared "amazing chemistry" -- that didn't make him any less abusive. What it did was make it incredibly hard to understand what was happening to me, b/c I was committed to him. It also made it difficult to get out, even after I realized I had to.

You know, trust can be a fragile thing. You can spend months or even years building it, and it can be destroyed in seconds.


Indeed. I've had 'amaaaaazzziiinnngggg chemistry' quite a few times in my 50 plus years. And every fucking time the relationship blew up in my face. I am not sure I even trust 'aammmaaaaazzziiinnggg chemistry' anymore. It's just fucking lust people!

The best relationship of my life began with very little chemistry, but a whole lotta friendship and communicating. We've said this over and over and over on here, till our fingertips turn purple,.............just because you've got some BDSM or power exchange dynamic tossed in does not negate the fact that it is a relationship. We are not that special.

Every single person that I've seen/heard say otherwise, tends to go through relationships like my dogs through chew toys. But hey, if you want short and aaaamaaaazziiinnnggg......go for it! Usually the breakups are pretty fucking aaaaammmmaaaaazzzziiiinnngggg too.

And entertaining for us observers.



Greta75 -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/6/2012 4:26:00 AM)

I completely can relate to what you are going through and that similar to my relationship with my x.
I ask you one simple question, and if the answer to this is yes, then my answer to your question is no, he will never be satisfied.
Did he ever threaten to end it just because you refuse to do something he wants you to do?
In these "break ups", who makes up first?



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/6/2012 4:37:53 AM)

Some remarkably good points here. I hope the OP comes back to respond. How much do you want to bet he breaks up with her for not being 'slavey' enough, and she begs to come back?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I completely can relate to what you are going through and that similar to my relationship with my x.
I ask you one simple question, and if the answer to this is yes, then my answer to your question is no, he will never be satisfied.
Did he ever threaten to end it just because you refuse to do something he wants you to do?
In these "break ups", who makes up first?



[sm=goodpost.gif]



LadyPact -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/6/2012 7:28:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
Indeed. I've had 'amaaaaazzziiinnngggg chemistry' quite a few times in my 50 plus years. And every fucking time the relationship blew up in my face. I am not sure I even trust 'aammmaaaaazzziiinnggg chemistry' anymore. It's just fucking lust people!

The best relationship of my life began with very little chemistry, but a whole lotta friendship and communicating. We've said this over and over and over on here, till our fingertips turn purple,.............just because you've got some BDSM or power exchange dynamic tossed in does not negate the fact that it is a relationship. We are not that special.

Every single person that I've seen/heard say otherwise, tends to go through relationships like my dogs through chew toys. But hey, if you want short and aaaamaaaazziiinnnggg......go for it! Usually the breakups are pretty fucking aaaaammmmaaaaazzzziiiinnngggg too.

And entertaining for us observers.
I've got to agree with this. Amazing chemistry is great. If we're *just* talking play partners and all you're in it for is the play/sex, chemistry can be enough. If it's about a whole relationship, amazing chemistry isn't necessarily enough to build the foundation for something solid. There are people right here on this thread who have said at various times, "yeah, sex with him was awesome, but he was a real dick/abusive/whatever".

Sometimes, it's the so-called "amazing chemistry" that gets people to put up with shit longer than they should have.




orgasmdenial12 -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/6/2012 7:39:02 AM)

That's a very pertinent question. I am the one who ends it and he is the one who tries to make up.



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/6/2012 7:45:13 AM)

Then don't "make up" unless and until the two of you manage to have an actual conversation where you manage to communicate.

If he wants to get back together, this *might* actually mean he's willing to listen to you. There is no guarantee of that, but shesh hon, don't break up unless you mean it, and if you mean it, then have conditions for getting back together.




SimplyMichael -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/6/2012 7:50:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Then don't "make up" unless and until the two of you manage to have an actual conversation where you manage to communicate.

If he wants to get back together, this *might* actually mean he's willing to listen to you. There is no guarantee of that, but shesh hon, don't break up unless you mean it, and if you mean it, then have conditions for getting back together.





Bingo



LaTigresse -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/6/2012 7:52:36 AM)

Ya. One 'break up' with me is enough.

Then again, anything else I would have to say about that goes back to my opinions about most, M/f relationships. And wouldn't be constructive to this thread.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/6/2012 8:09:13 AM)

Sadly, this new piece of info is the death knell.

He doesnt have the skills to make this work nor does he have the intrgrity to say "my way or else".

What I would do is sit your ass down and explain you will have NO limits with me. However, I will man up and do whatever it takes to build the emotional bond and trust so that WE can go there together. That means patience, it means understanding it might never be made possible but that would then be my failing, not yours, your commitment would be to be open to being ready.

The point is to make HER feel safe, heard, more important than all the kink in the world. Not just with words but in all your actions. Do that and limits fall away, they become unimportant,. Because in her core she knows that every action you take has her wellbeing at the center.



LadyPact -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/6/2012 8:21:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

That's a very pertinent question. I am the one who ends it and he is the one who tries to make up.
This isn't meant to sound condescending but right here would be the point where I wanted to ask you if you've heard that definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. If nothing really changes between the breaking up and taking back, how is anything going to be different?

You have to kind of forgive Me, OP. Sometimes, when I answer threads so early (trust Me, it's early in My time zone) it doesn't always click in My head that other people do things so very differently than I do. I also sometimes don't realize how "new" is "new". The request that you mentioned earlier in the thread isn't something that I would have on the table at the stage where you are in the relationship. As Oside said, fluid bonding should be (to Me) one of those things for deep commitment. If clip walked into the room right now and I would choose to give him the same command, yes, I'd expect it to be obeyed. I wouldn't have expected him to obey, or for Me to think of giving the command, when we were first starting out.

It doesn't especially surprise Me that he is the one who wants to keep getting back together, at least for play. What guy *doesn't* want to top somebody who he is having pretty darn good scenes with even if he *isn't* getting his every whim? Heck, even I'd do that. It's also a very easy way to kind of 'forget' about incompatibility for a little while. Getting caught up in the heat of the moment can be fun at times, as long as everybody realizes that the incompatibilities still exist unless something, or someone, is going to change.




GreedyTop -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/6/2012 9:13:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

There are certain things in fetish that I will never do - not for anyone. It would fuck me up - and if I cant even imagine myself doing it, chances are, there is no way in hell Im doing it.

Now there have been conversations on the boards as of late - with basically the questions posed to the sub/slave/bottom > how far would you go for your owner. The answers were mixed. Some would go as far as body limb removal, some said they'd be out the door with out blinking twice...

I myself - look for people that actually care about my best interest and actually are aware that Im a human being, and that I need to function reasonably well outside the kinkroom. To press something on me that I have clearly explained why its not a good idea for me - and will fuck me all up mentally, is not someone that is thinking about me, they are just thinking about themselves. It also gives me a good indication that somewhere down the line Im going to be disposable. Selfish people more often than not operate that way.



well said, Janah :) (when ya gonna come visit??)



JanahX -> RE: Can a Master be satisfied with a submissive? (11/6/2012 10:09:42 AM)

I will pen in a visit to Georgia in-between my trips to Tahiti and St. Tropez. I will then kidnap you and take you to St. Tropez - you would love the beaches there. They are phenomenal!!!



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