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RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 6:16:56 AM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRobert1
Hardest part of this lifestyle for a sub, actually submitting. But, isn't this what you're after? Remember: takes no effort to submit to things YOU WANT.


Wow...now isn't THAT the truth?  Yup...I very much like giving up control; but I'm not so wild about being told to do 'some' stuff.  Yes though...it IS what I'm after.  I guess there is no 'Power Exchange' if what you 'agree' to do is stuff you'd do anyway!  LOL

(in reply to MasterRobert1)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 6:24:14 AM   
Brosco


Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline 		I haven't gone thru this thread in entirity so forgive me or a very late question:

Obedience - real life

compared to what?

vanilla
parents
online
work
M/s
D/s
etc etc

Ummhh isn't obedience just that - or is this about context?

_____________________________

Any Dom that believes he is in complete control ... has a very clever subbie.

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 6:25:47 AM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		...perhaps if you read at least the original post?

(in reply to Brosco)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 6:40:42 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
Wow...now isn't THAT the truth?  Yup...I very much like giving up control; but I'm not so wild about being told to do 'some' stuff.  Yes though...it IS what I'm after.  I guess there is no 'Power Exchange' if what you 'agree' to do is stuff you'd do anyway!  LOL

That's actually completely false.  And this leads people down the road of "Well my master can fuck other women so I OBVIOUSLY submit MORE than you do because I SACRIFICE more"

Sacrifice is NOT submission...although many make it out to be.

It's JUST as much submitting to another's authority if it's something you like vs something you don't like.  After all, we ALL consented to it, so in the "long term" it IS what we want.

It might not give you the "leash yank" or the "yummy sub fuzzies" when you submit to something you enjoy on your own, but you're no "more" or "less" obedient when it's something you like vs something you don't like.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 6:41:53 AM   
Brosco


Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline 		yep, i read that.. in fact the entire first page.. still have no idea... so i thought after 4 pages it was time to ask

_____________________________

Any Dom that believes he is in complete control ... has a very clever subbie.

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 6:48:13 AM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		(Fast Reply)

The original Op mentions a command given to a sub who finds it difficult. If I might take a moment to add some perspective from the other side (so to speak)...
 
Nope, A Dom/me dosen't have anyone standing over them telling them what to do. They don't get guidance and specific commands that are designed to make their subs happy, healthy and whole.... Most Dom/mes are very glad about this, but if you think about it a little deeper, you might be taking them for granted....
 
A Dom/me has a never ending job. It is their responsibility to guide the household in a way that benefits everyone. In my own household I have a femsub, a slavehubby, five boxers (one due to have puppies on the 24th), two cats, one ten yr. old(femsub's), two sons (22, and 16 yrs.), a hedgehog, four vehicles, and a lawn mower - LOL (Some days it FEELS like that!)
I oversee finances, household chores, our social schedules, a local lifestyle egroup, and much more. I've spent the last three years helping nomi to get her bachelors, parent her child and still handle a full time and demanding career. I've also been disabled during that time and have been in physical therapy, chiropractic, and on pain management.
 
I lose sleep sometimes worrying about those I love. I have to take individual time and still make sure that we also have family time. I have to nurture the various relationships within our home and also encourage everyone to have friends and interests outside the home.
 
Sometimes I don't "want" to stay home with one of mine on movie night to work something out - maybe I really needed to relax and escape into the latest X-Men or DaVinci Code. But if I'm needed, then what I want dosen't matter.
 
I rarely need to actually "punish" those in my household, but when someone does act in a way that requires it (specific rules that warrant punishment are known to both of my sub/slaves), I DREAD it! The last thing I want to do is give punishment, but the way this household runs smoothest, I have to. Since punishment is meted out after the chicklet is in bed, that means that sometimes I have several hours to dread it right there along with my sub/slave.
 
I could go on, but my point is that sometimes Dom/mes hafta do things they don't want to do too... You subs aren't alone in that really...
 

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 7:30:06 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Submotive

Today Master gave me a command that i'm finding most difficult to continue. i know obedience is important - and i do like pleasing my Master. Yet, sometimes commands are difficult to complete. Want to know how others have handled this in real life please.


You need to share your difficulty with him.

Part of his job is to teach you how to do things he wants and to help you learn to cope with difficulties. He cannot know that something is difficult unless you tell him. At that point, he can help you figure out how to do it perhaps in a step by step fashion, perhaps by giving you feedback or suggesting some education you could enlist in.

You weren't specific but if this difficulty is more than just not knowing how or being afraid and relates to your morals or ethics then you must have a discussion about that. I would not be in a relationship with someone whose ethics and morals did not match my own to a very high degree; I take part of my responsiblity as a good person to them to not order them to do things against any part of their ethic or moral code.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Submotive)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 7:52:49 AM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
Wow...now isn't THAT the truth?  Yup...I very much like giving up control; but I'm not so wild about being told to do 'some' stuff.  Yes though...it IS what I'm after.  I guess there is no 'Power Exchange' if what you 'agree' to do is stuff you'd do anyway!  LOL

That's actually completely false.  And this leads people down the road of "Well my master can fuck other women so I OBVIOUSLY submit MORE than you do because I SACRIFICE more"

Sacrifice is NOT submission...although many make it out to be.

It's JUST as much submitting to another's authority if it's something you like vs something you don't like.  After all, we ALL consented to it, so in the "long term" it IS what we want.

It might not give you the "leash yank" or the "yummy sub fuzzies" when you submit to something you enjoy on your own, but you're no "more" or "less" obedient when it's something you like vs something you don't like. 


hmmmmmmmmmm I must be missing something, LA.  I'm sorry; I have no idea what you mean.
 
Sacrifice more?  I was just talking about obedience.  Surely if one submits to another, that one will sometimes do stuff they’re not wild about doing.  I didn’t mean to imply doing those things that one doesn’t so much enjoy is more OR less obedient…just that it is ALL part of an exchange of power; no?  What I meant about it ‘being what I’m after’ …it’s the submission; NOT sometimes doing things I don’t enjoy.
 
<sigh>  I think I’m lost…

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 7:56:53 AM   
TxBadMan


Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Submotive

Today Master gave me a command that i'm finding most difficult to continue. i know obedience is important - and i do like pleasing my Master. Yet, sometimes commands are difficult to complete. Want to know how others have handled this in real life please.


With communication. Open, honest, respectful communication.  

_____________________________

Chris



(in reply to Submotive)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 7:59:38 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
What I meant about it ‘being what I’m after’ …it’s the submission; NOT sometimes doing things I don’t enjoy.

<sigh>  I think I’m lost…


I was mainly disagreeing with your statement here:  I guess there is no 'Power Exchange' if what you 'agree' to do is stuff you'd do anyway! 

That's false.

The rest was just further explanation and delving into the corners of that idea.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 8:01:52 AM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		That's a good point, too, Calandra.  Being Dominant ain't easy.  Believe me...I know.  I really got into topping on occasion, but when some of the boys I've played with got all insistant I be 'more Domme'...I pretty much quit.  It's no fun for me and it's wayyyyyyyyyy too hard!  I'm NO Domme! 
 
I've heard this from male Dominants, too.  They are not gods ( honest! ), sometimes I think we submissives forget they can't 'really' read our minds! 
 
I've noted that the OP, Submotive, HAS in fact, what appears to be a really good, communicative relationship with her Master.  She pointed out a couple times now that she was struggling with something...used us as a sounding board...and is back on track.  I like that too...that we can use this Forum for stuff like that! 
 
But...I'm sappier beyond belief; perhaps you folks are noticing that!  LOL

(in reply to Calandra)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 8:20:07 AM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		Hmmmmmmm…  I understand sacrifice is not submission…though in some regards they seem similar to me…

Sooooooo, perhaps I should have completed that statement?  “I guess there is no 'Power Exchange' if what you 'agree' to do is stuff you'd do anyway and refuse to do what you do not want to do”   Mo betta?

I agree submission is doing what you like AND what you don’t…but it hardly seems like submission to ONLY do what you want to do.

Am I still missing the point?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 8:24:19 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
but it hardly seems like submission to ONLY do what you want to do.

Am I still missing the point?

But submissives always want to submit (even if at a moment in time they do not, ultimately in the long term, they do).

Authority transfer occurs when you do something within anothers authority- anything else is irrelevant.

Whether you like it, don't like it, love it- whatever, that doesn't make any difference.  One could say that if a submissive is in a relationship she ALWAYS enjoys, then she's either a really good match or she's learned to like everything the dom likes.  Is she still submitting?  I say yes.



_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 10:03:28 AM   
Submotive


Posts: 440
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: irishbynature

Was his command set as a "Hard limit" by you before you became submissive to him? Or could it be he wishes to push limits the two of you have not explored?



no - not a hard limit at all - and it wasn't the command that was the problem - it was my attitude, which i did adjust with the help of people on this thread. thanks to A/all.

_____________________________

Owned by Scotch Master

i would rather continue alone than be permitted to show only parts of myself to my Beloved.

If you're not living as you would like to today, when are you going to start?

(in reply to irishbynature)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 10:04:42 AM   
Submotive


Posts: 440
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brosco

I haven't gone thru this thread in entirity so forgive me or a very late question:

Obedience - real life

compared to what?

vanilla
parents
online
work
M/s
D/s
etc etc

Ummhh isn't obedience just that - or is this about context?

Basically obedience in a real life situation as opposed to online.

_____________________________

Owned by Scotch Master

i would rather continue alone than be permitted to show only parts of myself to my Beloved.

If you're not living as you would like to today, when are you going to start?

(in reply to Brosco)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 11:03:53 AM   
Submotive


Posts: 440
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline 		Hello A/all
Deep thanks to Y/you for Y/your response to my post. The use of capitals for me is something Master enjoys and a discipline for me. It has nothing to do with Gor or any online pretenses.
 
No, the command i was given was no where near a hard limit. It wasn't the command that presented the dilemna for me, it was my attitude about it. Yes, i do believe obedience is just as important regardless of whether i'm obeying something i enjoy or don't. A good example is the other day i was at Master's. He only had a little coffee left, yet He was kind and saved it for me. He told me to use it. i thought i was being thoughtful by not using it. But the fact is i disobeyed Him by not using it. So instead of Him being pleased by my "thoughtfulness" He was disappointed that i had not obeyed Him. Now that was certainly an enjoyable command.  What i learned from that is my obedience pleases Him, not necessarily what the obedience is in regard to.
 
Submission for me is about the opportunity to practice principles that strengthen my character and help me grow into a more loving, beautiful woman. These principles include trust, obedience, honor, respect, surrender of my own childishness and selfishness. i don't see my submission as a gift to Master. i see being granted the opportunity to submit as the gift. Having this wonderful Master in my life Who is willing to look into my heart and see how much i desire to be better and help me accomplish this is the gift. The fact that i get things i like at times is the icing on the cake.
 
Yet i am selfish in many ways and so there are times when, in spite of my ultimate desires to grow and learn, my stubborness kicks in. That's what happend yesterday. Rather than listen to my own negative self-speak, i came to these boards - i'm very happy i did. Thank Y/you again.

< Message edited by Submotive -- 6/16/2006 11:06:21 AM >

_____________________________

Owned by Scotch Master

i would rather continue alone than be permitted to show only parts of myself to my Beloved.

If you're not living as you would like to today, when are you going to start?

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 11:09:19 AM   
Submotive


Posts: 440
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

Hmmmmmmm…  I understand sacrifice is not submission…though in some regards they seem similar to me…

Sooooooo, perhaps I should have completed that statement?  “I guess there is no 'Power Exchange' if what you 'agree' to do is stuff you'd do anyway and refuse to do what you do not want to do”   Mo betta?

I agree submission is doing what you like AND what you don’t…but it hardly seems like submission to ONLY do what you want to do.

Am I still missing the point?

you certainly haven't missed any points in my book, Bearlee. Thank you again for your support and helpfulness. Hugs. submotive.

_____________________________

Owned by Scotch Master

i would rather continue alone than be permitted to show only parts of myself to my Beloved.

If you're not living as you would like to today, when are you going to start?

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 12:24:41 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
but it hardly seems like submission to ONLY do what you want to do.

Am I still missing the point?

But submissives always want to submit (even if at a moment in time they do not, ultimately in the long term, they do).

Authority transfer occurs when you do something within anothers authority- anything else is irrelevant.

Whether you like it, don't like it, love it- whatever, that doesn't make any difference.  One could say that if a submissive is in a relationship she ALWAYS enjoys, then she's either a really good match or she's learned to like everything the dom likes.  Is she still submitting?  I say yes.




I agree almost entirely, except that, for myself, I have a distinction between being *directed* and *submitting*.

Yes, I'm doing what he wishes when he wishes( mostly...lol)....and the overall PE is there..but when I have to do things that I'd rather not or that I dislike, then I am submitting.....if my will is aligned with his, then I am obeying. I am speaking of individual tasks here.

Regards, agirl

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 1:09:02 PM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
but it hardly seems like submission to ONLY do what you want to do.

Am I still missing the point?

But submissives always want to submit (even if at a moment in time they do not, ultimately in the long term, they do).

Authority transfer occurs when you do something within anothers authority- anything else is irrelevant.

Whether you like it, don't like it, love it- whatever, that doesn't make any difference.  One could say that if a submissive is in a relationship she ALWAYS enjoys, then she's either a really good match or she's learned to like everything the dom likes.  Is she still submitting?  I say yes.


Well...and I would agree with you!  
 
I think maybe what I was getting at is if the submissive only did as was told part of the time...only when it was something enjoyable...and part of the time refused because some task was not enjoyable... is that still 'submission'?  
 
Perhaps I shouldn't be asking that question, though; I've been flamed enough the last couple days to GET that a submissive is whatever they wanna be, whatever they wanna call themselves is fine; submission is in the eye of the beholder...what ever rocks their world, etc.  No more labels!
 
Thanks LA, I wonder if it's a full moon or something?  Usually I have an easier time understanding what you mean.  LOL   I think I'll drop it now...  

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 2:00:35 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Submotive

Today Master gave me a command that i'm finding most difficult to continue. i know obedience is important - and i do like pleasing my Master. Yet, sometimes commands are difficult to complete. Want to know how others have handled this in real life please.



Well, if you only like pleasing your Master, and obedience is only important, I can possibly see from where the struggle stems. It is up to you how serious you wish to make your servitude, and how caring—and forceful—your Master wishes to be in conforming you to his wishes. It is a matter of degree, not what is right and what is wrong. If you are not so inspired, it is unlikely complete obedience and loyalty would be in your actions, or expected of them.

(in reply to Submotive)
Profile   Post #: 80
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