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RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 7:22:13 PM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

Well, if you only like pleasing your Master, and obedience is only important, I can possibly see from where the struggle stems. It is up to you how serious you wish to make your servitude, and how caring—and forceful—your Master wishes to be in conforming you to his wishes. It is a matter of degree, not what is right and what is wrong. If you are not so inspired, it is unlikely complete obedience and loyalty would be in your actions, or expected of them.

 
Wow… Now THAT makes sense!  Thank you, Sir.  Perhaps that is why I’m struggling so much with all this.  I’m passionate about my submission and feel strongly about pleasing my Dominant; very much like I know Submotive does.  If I were struggling with something, I would be beside myself that I could not gracefully do as I was told (as was she).  Submotive said something that I really appreciated. Something like:  submission is not the gift, but being allowed TO submit is!  I will remember that and it will help. 
 
I also really like this idea that, while some think of themselves as submissives…and of course they ARE submissives if they think themselves so…they may not so inspired nor passionate about it to be particularly concerned about saying ‘No…don’t wanna do that’, and refuse.  And…if they pick a Dominant who doesn’t care either; then it’s a perfect match; for THEM. 
 
Course, it also makes no sense to me that some people insist on calling themselves subs and dominants…when they are really just looking for kinky sex; but hey; perhaps that is the degree to which they are willing to participate in D/s.  I’m beginning to wonder if I’m more closely aligned to ‘high protocol’ than I ever imagined.
 
I know some people think of slaves as the ‘uber submissive’, so I suppose some will think of these ‘I can still say No- submissives’ as something ‘less-than’; which is gonna piss of a lot of people.  Look what happened when someone said ‘bedroom-submissive’! 
 
<sigh>  I guess ya can please some of the people some of the time….  
 
But tell me, without labels or definitions… HOW is it people are able to communicate about things?  No wonder someone posed the question regarding becoming too PC.
 
Amayos, I liked what you wrote and the ‘degree’ thing helped and made me think about this from yet another angle.  Thank you, again, Sir.

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 10:47:55 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

Amayos, I liked what you wrote and the ‘degree’ thing helped and made me think about this from yet another angle.  Thank you, again, Sir.


Bearlee, I'm glad you found that viewpoint helpful. I feel we are all on different stratums, and it's ideal when both submissive and dominant can find each other on the same one.

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/16/2006 11:47:47 PM   
SaintPain


Posts: 24
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
I have loved reading the replies in this discussion.  I have been a Domme for *almost* 8 years now.  About 6 months ago I met a Dom who turned my life upside down.  I was given an opportunity to explore a side of me that I had always been curious about - but have never pursued. 
 
Last month we went to our first public play party - him as the Dom and me as his submissive.  It was a crazy, emotional night - but a very good, personal experience.  At the end of the night some things happened and 2 other Doms made a suggesstion to him to have me do something. 
 
Although I love him more than life (and we are engaged now) I could not bring myself to do what he asked...mainly b/c I am still trying to sort things out between the sub and Domme inside me.  I explained to him (more like pleaded) why I didn't want to (I guess it wasn't really a matter of "couldn't") and he understood.  And thankfully, I wasn't made to.  However, I do know that in the future this situation will arise again...And I sit here wondering if I should do as some people in this forum have commented...and "suck it up"

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/17/2006 12:31:46 AM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
they may not so inspired nor passionate about it to be particularly concerned about saying ‘No…don’t wanna do that’, and refuse. 


As long as you don't assume that just because a sub says No it automatically means they aren't concerned about it, or passionate about their submission.

Saying No can actually be something the dominant expects of a sub, and trust me I've been in situations where saying No, was actually obeying the dom's authority. Part of building up assertiveness and self-care.

Personally, there are times when I've struggled to get that No out, because I know ultimately that the dom I was with would be unhappy with me for suffering in silence. And I spent many hours struggling with feelings of failure because of it.

I doubt any sub revels in saying No, unless of course it's part of a resistance game. But we do it when it's the healthy thing to do. Saying Yes, isn't always the right answer.

I think it's very important that we don't make assumptions about other people's level of concern or passion, when all we know about them is the words typed on this screen.

Food for thought.

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/17/2006 5:27:39 AM   
BreakMeShakeMe


Posts: 339
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline 		Very Well said Cin...

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do, Skill is knowing how to, Virtue is just doing it.

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/17/2006 5:28:33 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRobert1

Hardest part of this lifestyle for a sub, actually submitting. But, isn't this what you're after? Remember: takes no effort to submit to things YOU WANT.


It may take not effort to submit to the things you want.. but because it takes no effort doesn't equate that it is not submission.

Traveling a path of submission is very much like travel a road up and down hills.  On the down side of the Hill the submissive is taking actions that are enjoyable and increase momentum in the relationship for themself.  As the submissive starts up a hill in the face of challenges, this momentum can do much to get the submissive up and over the hill.  The very achievement of climbing the hill can result in an increase momentum on the other side to the next challenge that is in the submissive's future.  To often submissives hit these hills (challenges) without enough momentum and they stall on the hill.  Stalling on the hill (challenges) is when things really get difficult and become very difficult for a relationship if they keep trying to force the direction straight up the hill.  These are the moments when relationship bonds closer  or break apart.   It's the moment that  both make the decision to be committed towards staying together and succeeding together or seperating and failing to get over the hill.

To submissives.... NEVER let a Dominant tell you that submission is only when it's hard.  You need momemtum.. if you don't the Relationship will fail.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MasterRobert1)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/17/2006 5:36:16 AM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SaintPain

...
Last month we went to our first public play party - him as the Dom and me as his submissive.  It was a crazy, emotional night - but a very good, personal experience.  At the end of the night some things happened and 2 other Doms made a suggesstion to him to have me do something. 
 
Although I love him more than life (and we are engaged now) I could not bring myself to do what he asked...mainly b/c I am still trying to sort things out between the sub and Domme inside me.  I explained to him (more like pleaded) why I didn't want to (I guess it wasn't really a matter of "couldn't") and he understood.  And thankfully, I wasn't made to.  However, I do know that in the future this situation will arise again...And I sit here wondering if I should do as some people in this forum have commented...and "suck it up"
 
Ahhhhhhhhhh… I’m sure you’re right, too!  Hey, sometimes I think it’s great fun for a Dominant to ‘flex’ his control and insist one do any number of stupid, serious, scary, funny, soft, hard, easy, difficult-things for a submissive to do.  Yup, it’ll come up again!  LOL  Actually, I wonder if we don’t think it’s great fun too; deep down inside.  It’s a Power Exchange…I think sometimes we just want to FEEL that.  Isn’t that why some submissives ‘act up’?  Isn’t that why some submissives cry their Dom doesn’t ‘play’ with them enough or ‘make’ them feel submissive enough?
 

Still, I want to congratulate you on your engagement and new life, but also want to say the example you gave is something exactly like I would do (have done).  What you did, in my opinion, is entirely different than just “Nope, don’t wanna do that” …and refuse.  Sounds to me like you two have a good thing going!  Thank you for your post.

(in reply to SaintPain)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/17/2006 5:48:24 AM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful

Saying No can actually be something the dominant expects of a sub, and trust me I've been in situations where saying No, was actually obeying the dom's authority. Part of building up assertiveness and self-care.



I have Dom/me friends who are working on helping me to be able to say "no". I need to learn to so that I don't get into dangerous situations again. I try to say it with tact and politeness, but just getting it out at all pleases them. It helps that I can trust them NOT to take me beyond what I am willing to do. When I get into my submissive head-space it's very difficult for me to say it though, even when I know I should. Since I'd rather not be the bad example of what can go wrong in BDSM, I'm working at learning to stick up for myself and say it when it's appropriate.

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/17/2006 5:48:57 AM   
BreakMeShakeMe


Posts: 339
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline 		KoM... makes sense to me... alot of the responses to this whole thread does... while it seems when I posted my response... I was in a funny mood.. and was joking around with someone.. it was taken out of context...oh well..... such is life.. But I do so have to agree with you in this manner.... to just toss something out there... and see the struggle.. and not help.. might as well expect the problems that might arise from it.

One of the Doms i've been seeing has been reading this post and a few others... and we agree with somethings said... and a few we don't... but your post. made more sense to Roy... than most others. He sees my submission all the time.. even when we're joking round... I tell him no... on something he says... he doesn't get bent all out shape about it.... he waits to see if i'm joking around or serious... then he take the next step in making sure of the situation. Either by laughing it off... or by taking his stand as a dom and letting me know all joking aside... And when I say no to him... it's when knowing the situation at the time.... are we already joking around.. being totally serious...whatever. Life isn't ment to be so serious 24/7.....

I'm not going to appologize for my first post... or any post made after that .... because it seriously taken outta context... and run through  the ringer.... because of not knowing the OP's job that she was ordered to do.. we did not know at first.. the task. For all we know.. he wanted her to balance on an egg while trying to change a light bulb at the top of the stairs....(hense the comment... you want it done... do it yourself).... because of joking around OFF LINE.. while reading and posting ON LINE...the shit was taken outta context. Because basically.. depending on the situation.. it very well may be said. But once again... it's all in how it's said. And why it's being said.

Thanks again KoM for a thoughtful post.... like I said.. made sense to us over here...

Have a great weekend... and Happy Fathers Day to the dads out there...

Jessica


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do, Skill is knowing how to, Virtue is just doing it.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/17/2006 5:53:39 AM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		KoM, thank you for that post.  Somewhere on these boards I asked if it is submission if the sub is only doing things considered enjoyable; that they’d do anyway.  I said it all wrong…what I meant was ONLY those things.  I couldn’t agree more with your ‘path’ analogy.  And, the comment about the ‘downhill’ (less difficult or more enjoyable) tasks bringing momentum to the relationship really sang for me.  I, as I’m sure most submissive women do, get far too many e-mails where a dominant suggests all manner of extremely difficult tasks he will insist I achieve. (ha!)  The sad thing is, too many actually think THAT is what a D/s relationship IS and how a Dominant must behave.  I have read a great many of your posts and enjoy the celebration of relationship you have with your submissives.  IMHO a D/s relationship IS a win-win kinda thing.
 
Which brings me to a book I wonder if others have found?  I really enjoyed it…it offers immense help and many suggestions for the submissive or slave struggling with ‘HOW’ to submit or how to be better ‘at’ it.
 
“SlaveCraft: Roadmaps for Erotic Servitude—Principles, Skills and Tools” by Guy Baldwin (actually, his slave was requested to write it)   And no, it’s NOT a sex-book.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/17/2006 7:02:33 AM   
SingleTail69


Posts: 24
Joined: 4/2/2006
Status: offline 		also well said.

this may also be an issue where Master is well aware of how close to a soft or hard limit he is taking you, for lack of a better we'll call it a test. he may expect you to struggle with this so he can read into you and see your thought processes. so just handle this as best you can and be aware that the way Master sees you in the future will be a direct reflection of how you handle these tough moments.

good luck!

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Obedience - real life - 6/20/2006 3:54:23 PM   
genvieve


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline 		Without knowing the specifics or Y/your prior arrangements, all i can really tell you sweetie is this:
 
  • When your Master asks you to do something that you find difficult, first ask yourself if it falls under the category of something you've agreed to do in the past.  IE communication, complete service, whatever. 
  • If you've determined that it does fall under one of said categories, next determine if you are capable of doing so.  (However, keep in mind that the majority of the time the answer will be yes if you've an excelelnt Master, and i'm certain that you do)
  • Suck it up and do it.

That is the very best advice that i can give you my dear.  i hope it helps.  Good luck!

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design

(in reply to MHOO314)
Profile   Post #: 92
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