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RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/10/2012 4:39:41 PM

tazzygirl

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better, Rich?

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Post #: 61

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/10/2012 4:41:07 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

Oh yeah.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 62

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/10/2012 4:55:49 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

That's the problem with running on the Alinsky model.

Oh, good: Alinsky is back! I'd been missing him.

quote:

Our President still doesn't have a clue about how to work with Congress.

What do you feel he could or should do that he hasn't?

:)

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(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 63

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/10/2012 6:32:50 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

That's the problem with running on the Alinsky model.

Oh, good: Alinsky is back! I'd been missing him.

quote:

Our President still doesn't have a clue about how to work with Congress.

What do you feel he could or should do that he hasn't?

DC, I'm thinking Tazzy's quote is going to just take it's own thread on the means of addressing social ills (maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow), but for your second question, the bridge burning has to stop, and he needs to be the one with a big olive branch. The Democrats are enjoying their gloat way too much, for a guy who lost as many voters in his reelection as our President did. You don't throw dogshit over the fence and into the neighbors back yard every day for a year, and then expect a productive chat about something on the property line in the front yard.

Every so often you'll hear the sentiment that we should just lock all the gridlocked politicians in a room, and it's bread and water until they work it out. I'm not saying we go that far, but how about if we only allow the President to play golf, or basketball, or bowl down in the basement, if he has a House Republican with him? The game isn't over until they find something, anything at all, they can talk about without disagreement.

What could and should the President do? He should watch the tape of his '04 DNC speech, and see if he can even remember who that guy was.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 64

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/10/2012 7:48:22 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

he needs to be the one with a big olive branch.

And what form might this olive branch take?

quote:

You don't throw dogshit over the fence and into the neighbors back yard every day for a year, and then expect a productive chat about something on the property line in the front yard.

I realize this is a blind spot for you, but the crap flew in both directions.

quote:

how about if we only allow the President to play golf, or basketball, or bowl down in the basement, if he has a House Republican with him? The game isn't over until they find something, anything at all, they can talk about without disagreement.

I think Presidents need and deserve down time like the rest of us, but I do like your idea of rebuilding personal connections across party lines. I recently lunched with a wise friend who was a senior Republican staffer on the Hill for 25 years, and we agreed that the tendency of legislators to spend as little time in DC as possible definitely takes a toll on relationships. I didn't help that leading members of Congress (Boehner, McConnell, Reid) all blew off the state dinner for China. So much for a united front!

That loss of relationships was also a big theme at Betty Ford's funeral. One of the speakers, Cokie Roberts, said Mrs. Ford had charged her with discussing how D.C. had worked in earlier, more functional times. As part of her eulogy, she quoted Gerald Ford:

You know, Cokie, I just don’t understand what’s happened in Washington. When your father was Majority Leader and I was Minority Leader, we would get in a cab together on the Hill and we would go downtown to some place like the Press Club and we’d say ‘Ok, what are we going to argue about?’ Now, it was a real debate. We had different views about means to an end. We genuinely disagreed with each other, we were certainly partisans. But after we went at it, we’d get back in the cab together and be best friends.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 65

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/10/2012 9:40:15 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

And what form might this olive branch take?

Well, DC, he's supposed to be the smartest guy in any room he's in, right? Let's see some evidence of it.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 66

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/10/2012 9:44:29 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

I dont agree, Rich. The olive branches need to come from both sides, especially after this election.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 67

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/11/2012 2:29:07 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

No. They don't. Given that the Republicans lost pretty much every race they were in this cycle, and that the Democratic ground-game is precision tuned to Get-Out-The-Vote, the 2014 midterms are going to be the end of the Republican Party for good. UNLESS the Republicans get their shit together and (1) Throw out the crazy religious nuts/teabaggers and (2) tar and feather David Frum and (3) BEG all the Paleo-Cons to come back and give them legitimacy after they threw THEM out before the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Otherwise, they're going to continue to be the cartoon joke they've devolved to. Look at the numbers:

just a partial rundown of Progressive victories Tuesday night:

Obama re-elected, winning every swing state (Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Ohio, Nevada, Wisconsin, New Hampshire and Virgina.)

Democrats gain seats in both the House (preliminary: +6) & Senate (+4 from 51 to 53+2 Inde.), retaining control of the Senate. We had 23 Senate seats to defend while Republicans only had to defend 10. Not only did we SWEEP all 23 Democratic races, but we picked up two more.

Maryland, Maine, and Washington all voted FOR Marriage Equality. Minnesota upheld their existing law.

Iowa judge David Wiggins who upheld Marriage Equality in his state won reelection despite a concentrated effort to unseat him.

Sherrod Brown retained his Senate seat despite being the most heavily targeted Democratic Senator in the country by the Right Wing SuperPAC's.

Wisconsin elected the nations' first openly gay Senator, Tammy Baldwin.

Tammy Duckworth took out "deadbeat dad" and all-around super-douchbag Joe Walsh.

Washington State & Colorado decriminalized recreational Marijuana. Massachusetts passes a law allowing medical Marijuana.

Democrats win Senate seats in deep red North Dakota & West Virginia (Heidi Heitkamp & Joe Manchin.)

Swing state New Hampshire elects women to EVERY seat (Both Senate and both House seats).

The "Redefine Rape" guys, Todd Akin, Roscoe Bartlett & Richard Mourdock all lost... BIG. (side note: Akin & Bartlet were also both on the House Science Committee. No joke.)

Allen West is out (but not gracefully).

Alan Grayson is back in.

Most women in Senate EVER (18).

Missouri, Montana, West Virginia elected Democratic governors.

Obama becomes first Democrat since FDR to win two elections with more than 50% of the popular vote.

Obama won 70% of the Jewish vote despite all the fear-mongering over Israel.

Obama won 73% of the Asian vote.

Obama won 71% of the Latino vote.

Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the past 6 presidential elections (2004 being the outlier.)

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 68

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/11/2012 4:02:55 AM

DomYngBlk

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Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

Wow, what utter bullshit. you've stated thousands of times how you hate both sides and are "middle of the road". I've come to think of you as our own mitt romney. you agree with every position at some point.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 69

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/11/2012 4:09:36 AM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Yeah I figured it would come out of you once you saw the devastation to your side. Its cool old man. you are who you are.

Devastation? What devastation? The President won with 8 million fewer votes than he had the first time around, and once the Republican true believers get over their crying jag, he gets to deal with the aftermath of the campaign he waged.

That's the problem with running on the Alinsky model. You make a lot of permanent enemies.

Look a little farther down the road than next Friday night, Kiddo. The piper is going to be looking for his payday, and our President still doesn't have a clue about how to work with Congress.

You are a southern party. You have shunned any group of ideas that are outside the popularity of that part of the country. Those ideas from that part of the country have been dumped on the ash heap of history time and again. The republica party, if it survives, will bear no resembalance to the one that currently exists.

I realize all that scares old white men like you. Its ok. We understand. Just step aside so we can fix the messes you've made.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 70

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/11/2012 7:05:54 AM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Wow, what utter bullshit. you've stated thousands of times how you hate both sides and are "middle of the road". I've come to think of you as our own mitt romney. you agree with every position at some point.

I've never agreed with both sides, but Obama has some good ideas, as did Romney. Frankly, the only guy I'd vote for today is the same one I voted for in 1992....Perot.

I've stated more than clearly that regardless of which side wins, we're still fucked, but that blindly accepting one sides opinion on anything solely because you ascribe to that group is ridiculous, which is what most here do.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 71

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/11/2012 7:09:28 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

And because they lost the race means we should not try to work towards a better government?

I like many ideas from the Dems... but I also see merit in some of the resistance from the Reps. Having one party completely dismiss the other is what brought out the worse in the last election.

And the people were lost, it became all about winning, fuck the constituents.

I expect the government to work together.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 72

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/11/2012 7:17:48 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

That's the problem with running on the Alinsky model.

Oh, good: Alinsky is back! I'd been missing him.

quote:

Our President still doesn't have a clue about how to work with Congress.

What do you feel he could or should do that he hasn't?

DC, I'm thinking Tazzy's quote is going to just take it's own thread on the means of addressing social ills (maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow), but for your second question, the bridge burning has to stop, and he needs to be the one with a big olive branch. The Democrats are enjoying their gloat way too much, for a guy who lost as many voters in his reelection as our President did. You don't throw dogshit over the fence and into the neighbors back yard every day for a year, and then expect a productive chat about something on the property line in the front yard.

Every so often you'll hear the sentiment that we should just lock all the gridlocked politicians in a room, and it's bread and water until they work it out. I'm not saying we go that far, but how about if we only allow the President to play golf, or basketball, or bowl down in the basement, if he has a House Republican with him? The game isn't over until they find something, anything at all, they can talk about without disagreement.

What could and should the President do? He should watch the tape of his '04 DNC speech, and see if he can even remember who that guy was.

Seems to me that your take on this election,and what it means,is a little out of step with most other folks.
Among them John Boehner and the Congressional Republicans who now realize it is the President who holds the cards

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 73

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/11/2012 7:28:39 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

Tazzy I agree with you,they should work together,but with the results of this election,working together means the Republicans move toward the Democrats.
One party or the other always has the upper hand,that's how it works.
How it doesn't work is when the party with the losing hand decides not to recognize that FACT,and simply act as the party of NO(which in our system that party will almost always retain enough power to do,this power should be used wisely,not indiscriminately)please see the last 2 years for an example.
The Republican Party must recognize that the country has spoken,and the country comes first....not their own desire to return to the catbird seat.
The path back to the top should be,in a perfect world,one in which you come up with the smarter candidate,armed with the better ideas.....not because you made the other guy ineffectual by acting as a roadblock,thereby harming the country we all profess to love.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 74

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/11/2012 7:29:25 AM

SilverMark

Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline

Damn Rich, next you'll be bringing up Rev Wright...Do you need to see a birth certificate?...

Whether anyone agrees on the definition of Mandate, and if the President has one or not, the pivotal questions of the campaigns and election were simple, is there to be balance on the issue

of taxes and spending. The people have been fairly clear on the issue and have cast their votes to reflect a few things:

Medicare Stays! No vouchers!

Obamacare Stays!

Those who make $250,000 or more will have their taxes restored to the Clinton era rates.

The MAJORITY believes that we are better off under Obama's leadership than that of the Republican Party.

I do believe in, and would support some of Romney's ideas, LOOPHOLES should close!

Tax reform is an issue that has to be undertaken!

Although the self deport part was just odd, immigration policy MUST be dealth with!

Although I couldn't support Romney, he is not dumb, some of his ideas have merit, and some of his solutions are workable.

Argue the numbers all you like, but the result remains the same!

Obama has 4 years to address these issues, the House, has 2 years to prove that they don't have their brains stored deeply up their ass.

Best result of all, the SuperPacs have failed, (THIS TIME) they'll get better, and the people as a whole, will have to remin standing against those that would buy their candidates elections!

I hope that the opportunity exists to put Justices in place that could re-define Citizen's United, and put such issues as Gay Marriage and FINALLY put an end to Abortion as an issue of a national scale! Way too much time taken by Social Issues that accomplish little aside from further division of the public!

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 75

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/11/2012 9:08:12 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

You are a southern party. You have shunned any group of ideas that are outside the popularity of that part of the country. Those ideas from that part of the country have been dumped on the ash heap of history time and again. The republica party, if it survives, will bear no resembalance to the one that currently exists.

I realize all that scares old white men like you. Its ok. We understand. Just step aside so we can fix the messes you've made.

What a silly post, DYB. It made me chuckle.

You're in luck though. One of the other grown-ups in the forum has raised an interesting subject I'll be getting to here in a bit, and it will give you the opportunity to learn a little about conservative views and solutions.

Old? LOL. Depends on perspective I suppose. Tucked away in a chest full of cold-weather gear, I have military issue socks that are older than you.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 76

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/11/2012 9:44:10 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

Cons doing particularly bad in Cali seems to be particularly rough on rich......

The President winning 332 electoral votes to Mitt`s 206 = landslide......

The Ts got gutted and we won MORE Senate seats.....

New Hampshire is now a blue state and more and more Midwestern states like Nevada ....are also turning blue.

Angry white old(rich

)men are becoming scarcer and scarcer as the progressive agenda becomes part of the social fabric.

Pro-gay marriage,women`s health issues,taxe fairness,consumer protection,the enviornment,renewable/alt energy etc., are progressive,liberal ideals, for which more and more voting Americans support.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 77

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/11/2012 10:04:07 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

This.............is what`s got rich miffed .....this and the Obama-phone-lady........

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-election-20121111,0,2275455.story

"Nonwhite voters and cultural shifts make 2012 election pivotal"

"The 2012 election marked the point at which a new American electoral coalition solidified its hold on politics, one built on the country's growing nonwhite population and on cultural changes that have given younger voters of all races a far different outlook on political issues from that of their elders.
The impact could be seen not just in Obama's reelection and Democratic successes in the Senate, but also in statewide referendums on same-sex marriage in which advocates of equal rights for gays and lesbians unexpectedly won four out of four. In 2004, conservatives put marriage referendums on the ballot in hopes of boosting their prospects; just eight years later, the political impact had completely reversed."

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 78

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/11/2012 10:11:48 AM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

You are a southern party. You have shunned any group of ideas that are outside the popularity of that part of the country. Those ideas from that part of the country have been dumped on the ash heap of history time and again. The republica party, if it survives, will bear no resembalance to the one that currently exists.

I realize all that scares old white men like you. Its ok. We understand. Just step aside so we can fix the messes you've made.

What a silly post, DYB. It made me chuckle.

You're in luck though. One of the other grown-ups in the forum has raised an interesting subject I'll be getting to here in a bit, and it will give you the opportunity to learn a little about conservative views and solutions.

Old? LOL. Depends on perspective I suppose. Tucked away in a chest full of cold-weather gear, I have military issue socks that are older than you.

Old? yeah...forgot tired..but that too. you went to your local army/navy surplus store. Who gives a fuck

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 79

RE: Given the results in the house, Obama has a clear m... - 11/11/2012 2:22:39 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Well, DC, he's supposed to be the smartest guy in any room he's in, right? Let's see some evidence of it.

Well, that's a bit of a letdown.

Given that (a) you've been posting for a while now about how the gridlock on Capitol Hill stems from the President's incompetence and (b) you're often an astute observer of U.S. politics, I was rather looking forward to your thoughts on how a competent chief executive might reach out to and collaborate with an opposition party that hasn't shown much interest in finding common ground. Oh well.

As for the "smartest guy" thing, the closest I've come to sharing oxygen with the President was when we both attended the same basketball game at the Verizon Center. Alas, our seats were too far apart to chat. So I can't vouch for his brainpower. To be honest, his presence was actually a bit of a nuisance, since the stepped-up security meant long lines in the snow to be screened.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 80

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