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RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 6:03:45 AM

Calandra

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

Brosco,

Please pardon my intrusion, but take a moment, breathe, and maybe re-read the original post. Is it possible that you read into the post something that wasn't there?

Several people have been replying back and forth and you seem to be the only one who feels the need or the right to flame this guy. Now I'm not saying who was in the right in their relationship. I'm not discussing who was wrong... To be honest no one really knows, maybe not even the two people involved completely knows why it didn't work out yet... But what do YOU hope to gain in approaching this guy in this manner? Do you want to help him learn from the past and avoid making the same mistakes? If so, I don't think he'll be able to truly appreciate your "lesson" in the manner you offer it. Do you hope to comfort him? Not the way you're presenting yourself...

You say that you've been in this lifestyle many years... I'm sure that in that time, you've had a breakup or two that hurt deeply and you needed to gain perspective? Maybe your breakups were due to your mistakes, or hers, or (maybe this is a longshot) maybe both of you had a hand in it... Honestly, does it really help to drive the point home with a jackhammer to his chest???? (assuming that you read this 100% correctly and he was a neglectful egotistical asshole)

I may not be a regular here either - yet. But I certainly don't think that kicking someone when they have already posted repeatedly that they are hurting is gonna win you any new friends....

(in reply to Brosco)

Post #: 41

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 6:10:30 AM

OhBeMyMind

Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
Status: offline

~fast reply~

Seems to me the original post focused on what to do with the collar, and not to have the why's of the relationship picked apart.
So, with that in mind, what does anyone do with a collar after a break up? What do married people do with their wedding rings after a divorce? What do people do with any sentimental items after a break up?
The replies are going to vary.
I guess it boils down to who actually ends up with it in the end. If someone cannot fathom the item being tossed into the garbage, or ending up in a box on a shelf collecting dust, then clearly that person should take the item even if he/she feels it rightfully belongs to the other person. But then, really, what is that person going to do with it? In my opinion, the same thing.....toss it, or have it collect dust. If the relationship is over, it is over. Holding on to the item is certainly not going to put the relationship back together, or bring the lost partner back.
Personally, I would want the collar, and it would end up in a box along with other sentimental items from the relationship and placed on a shelf in a closet.

_____________________________

~oh

~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

(in reply to Brosco)

Post #: 42

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 6:13:16 AM

Brosco

Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra

Brosco,

Please pardon my intrusion, but take a moment, breathe, and maybe re-read the original post. Is it possible that you read into the post something that wasn't there?

Several people have been replying back and forth and you seem to be the only one who feels the need or the right to flame this guy. Now I'm not saying who was in the right in their relationship. I'm not discussing who was wrong... To be honest no one really knows, maybe not even the two people involved completely knows why it didn't work out yet... But what do YOU hope to gain in approaching this guy in this manner? Do you want to help him learn from the past and avoid making the same mistakes? If so, I don't think he'll be able to truly appreciate your "lesson" in the manner you offer it. Do you hope to comfort him? Not the way you're presenting yourself...

You say that you've been in this lifestyle many years... I'm sure that in that time, you've had a breakup or two that hurt deeply and you needed to gain perspective? Maybe your breakups were due to your mistakes, or hers, or (maybe this is a longshot) maybe both of you had a hand in it... Honestly, does it really help to drive the point home with a jackhammer to his chest???? (assuming that you read this 100% correctly and he was a neglectful egotistical asshole)

I may not be a regular here either - yet. But I certainly don't think that kicking someone when they have already posted repeatedly that they are hurting is gonna win you any new friends....

All your points are perfectly valid. Maybe I am being hard on him. But while all others are mullycoddling this poor hard done by dom, I am the only one that is suggesting he look at himself.

To be honest, if all others were attacking him (the CM norm) I prolly would go the other way. To me he needs to see the options.. and since all are wiping his tears, i was for me to say the other.

_____________________________

Any Dom that believes he is in complete control ... has a very clever subbie.

(in reply to Calandra)

Post #: 43

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 6:20:29 AM

MistressTheaZ

Posts: 155
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline

CmotDribbler,

I too read through your journal, and want to say first that I'm sorry for your loss.

I have something a bit different to say here though, and it's this: your kitten came from an abusive home, with abusive love relationships to boot. I'm not going to go into the havoc of My own childhood here, (gawd, sparing you all), but living in such dominion greatly skews one's ideas and perceptions about relationships. Living in the reality created by abusive parents - the crazymaking, the constant assaults on one's self-esteem and being, the depression, the isolation: these are difficult things for *anyone* to face up to, confront and work through. While I'd like to say I think love is enough, it is no substitute for counseling, support and validation from others knowledgeable about abuse.

Now, indeed - her being underage and basically finding salvation with you put a lot of undue pressure and expectations on a budding relationship. Add in newly found curiosities about sexuality and a varied living arrangement and...well..kaboom. I think it is better to find this out now than later on, when she likely would have eventually broke down in her unhappiness, but unable still to express same. It's My belief that it is not possible to make someone else whole; you can only want to encourage them to seek being so for themselves.

Another thought - while I know nothing of you or your relationship of course, I can tell you that the rigidity of a Dominant home may have triggered those same feelings of resenting abusive control and helplessness she feels at home. You remarked in your journal about nervousness concerning your jealousy, control issues and such...and if this gave you anxiety, it may have felt doubly so to her, considering her background.

I wish you well.

~Thea

(in reply to CmotDribbler)

Post #: 44

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 6:25:21 AM

Calandra

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

Brosco,

Thank you for the reply.

OhBeMyMind, mentioned a valid point though... the original OP simply asked what people suggested concerning the collar itself. Maybe he wants to consider the relationship issues alone, or with people in his real life, etc, etc.... to be honest he didn't really ask us to critique his performance...

I also don't see offering comfort to him as the same thing as mollycoddling him. No matter who's fault it was, it probably still hurts and he has a right to grieve.

If you'll look on page 1 of this thread, I offered sympathies and answered the original question... maybe it's time for you to do the same or bow out gracefully?
I think your point is made on this thread... ~hugs~

(in reply to Brosco)

Post #: 45

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 6:28:17 AM

Brosco

Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline

I wish I had expressed myself that well

_____________________________

Any Dom that believes he is in complete control ... has a very clever subbie.

(in reply to MistressTheaZ)

Post #: 46

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 6:30:14 AM

marieToo

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: enigmabrat

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: enigmabrat

her takeing the collar off was a symbol of her takeing herself away from you takeing your power back by takeing off the symbol of your owning her she just showed that you never owned her to begin with because if you ever did own her she would not have done that if you owned her she should have shown the respect of letting you take it off of her it was yours to give and yours to take back.

what she did was not very submissive or respectfull to you

That's incredibly subjective.......What an awsome insight into someone elses motives from so little information.

agirl

all I was saying was the gesture had estremly powerfull symbolic value
I dont know why she did it all i know is that that is what her actions say to me

I thought this was a very powerful observation actually. Of course, we cannot speak for the girl and what she was thinking/feeling when she removed it, but I think this statement pretty much hit the nail on the head as to how the op may be *interpreting* the removal of the collar and the symbolism of it as it applied to their relationship. I think thats why he is so focused on the collar; not because of ego, as someone else suggested, but because of the symbolism. I think if she had handled it just a bit more delicately, maybe he wouldnt feel quite as badly about the break up. Just a possibility from what Ive read. Im not saying this is fact.

(in reply to enigmabrat)

Post #: 47

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 6:33:43 AM

Brosco

Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra

Brosco,

Thank you for the reply.

OhBeMyMind, mentioned a valid point though... the original OP simply asked what people suggested concerning the collar itself. Maybe he wants to consider the relationship issues alone, or with people in his real life, etc, etc.... to be honest he didn't really ask us to critique his performance...

I also don't see offering comfort to him as the same thing as mollycoddling him. No matter who's fault it was, it probably still hurts and he has a right to grieve.

If you'll look on page 1 of this thread, I offered sympathies and answered the original question... maybe it's time for you to do the same or bow out gracefully?
I think your point is made on this thread... ~hugs~

I disagree.... while ever people mollycoddle him and let him forget he was part of this - sorry - i will not bow out... I have no reason to. Here he is - losing the 'love of his life' and all he cares about is the symbol. No care for her, needing sympathy from the group, and not a single thought about her. Sorry - he fails

Brosco

_____________________________

Any Dom that believes he is in complete control ... has a very clever subbie.

(in reply to Calandra)

Post #: 48

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 6:35:46 AM

marieToo

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

Fast reply to the OP;

At any rate, as far as what to do with the collar. My suggestion in this case, is that you dont keep it, even though that may be the usual tradition. You seem very hurt right now, and maybe seeing the collar around is going to keep the wound from healing. Even if you put it away, you may be tempted to go look at it. Better days are coming. This too shall pass. Dont play the blame game with yourself, or feel guilty or think you shouldve done something differently. All is for a reason. Better things will be coming along for you.

(in reply to marieToo)

Post #: 49

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 6:46:58 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brosco
All your points are perfectly valid. Maybe I am being hard on him. But while all others are mullycoddling this poor hard done by dom, I am the only one that is suggesting he look at himself.

Wait...first we're all too harsh on the newbies and we make them run away and uncomfortable on the boards...now we're mollycoddling him and not trying to get him to look at himself?

Either the regular forums posters on this board have very transient personalities or you just happen to perceive thing as it most suits your ego at any particular moment.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Brosco)

Post #: 50

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 6:49:40 AM

OhBeMyMind

Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
Status: offline

~fast reply~

Not to hijack the OP, however that seems to have already been done.
Far too often some people tend to read too much into what is actually written. Reading between the lines, using their keen spidey senses, PI tactics, mind reading, or some super power to gain knowledge of "what's really going on", or "to know what someone's motive really is".
Read the original post for what it says, not what 'you' (general blanket term and not directed to one specific person) think it means.

My sympathy for this guy is that he asked a question concerning what to do with the collar, yet it has festered into a whole mess about the why's of his relationship.

Way too many busy bodies in my opinion.

_____________________________

~oh

~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 51

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 6:54:37 AM

Brosco

Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brosco
All your points are perfectly valid. Maybe I am being hard on him. But while all others are mullycoddling this poor hard done by dom, I am the only one that is suggesting he look at himself.

Wait...first we're all too harsh on the newbies and we make them run away and uncomfortable on the boards...now we're mollycoddling him and not trying to get him to look at himself?

Either the regular forums posters on this board have very transient personalities or you just happen to perceive thing as it most suits your ego at any particular moment.

wow I am impressed LA, you actually condescend down to reading .. and wow.. even remembering a post of mine.. should I be flattered?

I truly have no idea as to how the regs chose to support or attack another, from what I have seen its like a childish clique of follow the leader.

In this case its easy - the guy wants to know what to do with the returned collar - poor guy, what will he do, he keeps it he will be sad, he throws it, it will be symbolic of his loss... in the meantime.. he has no concern about his real loss... grow up LA!

_____________________________

Any Dom that believes he is in complete control ... has a very clever subbie.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 52

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 7:16:38 AM

wytchywoman

Posts: 510
Joined: 2/27/2006
From: Southeastern Michigan
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OhBeMyMind

My sympathy for this guy is that he asked a question concerning what to do with the collar, yet it has festered into a whole mess about the why's of his relationship.

Way too many busy bodies in my opinion.

I think in your haste to jump in here with your own opinion that you may have missed this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: CmotDribbler

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brosco

It seems to me that you are more worried about a shattered ego because of a material/symbolic item (the collar) than you are about her. I don't know you, but she did for a reason and it takes 2 to tango.

Brosco

I"m sorry that I have come off that way here.
I am very torn up about this, and I really needed to try and talk parts of this through.
It's 5 in the morning here, I haven't slept since Wed evening. I needed to talk and I thought I would try expressing myself here.
But due to the fact that this is a BDSM forum, I tried to pick an aspect of this breakup that I could use as an anchor point, something other people may be able to relate to, or have experiance with.
.
The collar is, and was only a symbol, but it was a powerful one, and one I can try to use to understand my own thoughts on the whole issue.

Hopefully, you will now see, OhBeMyMind, that the OP later clarified that he was using the collar issue as what he himself called an "anchor point". I think nearly everyone saw his pain as being more over the ending of the relationship itself rather than the ultimate disposal of the collar which he admitted he saw as only a symbol. It's just a damned shame that some people have turned this into a thread to grand-stand on rather than allow this person to express himself and share his seeming confusion over what went wrong in the relationship.

_____________________________

Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

(in reply to OhBeMyMind)

Post #: 53

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 7:22:04 AM

Brosco

Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline

<---- wishes there was an icon of a violin playing

_____________________________

Any Dom that believes he is in complete control ... has a very clever subbie.

(in reply to wytchywoman)

Post #: 54

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 7:23:19 AM

Calandra

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

wytchywoman,

Sadly I also read that post and agreed with your assessment... I see him hurting.

He's posted repeatedly that he's broken hearted, not sleeping, and that he wants her happiness but had hoped it would be possible with him.

I hate that one or two people's words on a forum like this one can rub salt in an already painful wound. I wonder sometimes if the people who speak so carelessly would be so open-mouthed if they were sitting across the table from the object of their opinions?

(in reply to wytchywoman)

Post #: 55

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 7:23:56 AM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CmotDribbler
Well,
My Kitten left me.
She decided it on Wed. night, and told me Thursday afternoon.
And I am literally feel like I have been ripped into tiny little peices.
Just this weekend she was on her knees before me, reaffirming that she wanted to be my Possesion for the rest of our natural lives.
And today, I may never see her again.
She tried to give the collar back.
I couldn't take it.
What am I going to do with it?
She tried putting it on the table in front of me, and that's when I had to walk away, It just hurt too much.
I already know i'm going to give her all the ropes, and toys,
But what about the collar,
I want her to keep it.
I can't, it doesn't belong with me,
But i'm afraid that she might just throw it out.
I believe in her enough to know she wouldn't do that.
but up until two days ago I thought we would never have to even think about it.
Will she just put it in a box to forget about?
I wish I knew how to ask her, without it hurting me more.

I feel so alone.

CmotDribbler,
I understand completely. I am going through this same pain. When she removed her collar in front of you and placed it on the table, IMO, it was a very symbolic gesture. What to do with the collar? Keep it. Put it away, give yourself time to heal and maybe later you can look at it and smile for the good times you had with your kitten. I also had a very young one and although the circumstances were different, when he left, it devestated me. I got some really good advice and comfort here. Try to ignore the squabbles and take comfort in what is being said to you. If you need someone to talk to, you can email me on the other side. I don't think there is one person on this forum who has not felt the pain of a break-up, whether it was a D/s or vanilla relationship. Pain is pain and the heart knows no difference.

Hugs, you are not alone.

_____________________________

(in reply to CmotDribbler)

Post #: 56

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 7:30:29 AM

Calandra

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brosco
<---- wishes there was an icon of a violin playing

~sigh~

I've noticed that you mention a clique a few times this morning... and that you have posted aggressive and sometimes hateful things to specific people... I, personally do not belong to a clique, since I can think and write for myself and do not need a mob mentality to shore up MY opinions, however I'll say this publically. I am disheartened by the fact that you, a 57 yr old man feels the need to step upon someone else in order to feel better about himself...

I practice consent in who I spend my time with, and until I see you practicing a little more tact and restraint in your dealings, I hope to never speak to you again.

I wish you better than you're giving others...

(in reply to Brosco)

Post #: 57

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 8:12:55 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Brosco, gee you sound like a bitter ass and here I thought you just hated people who did that shit?

As for the OP, he, I believe, is pinning over the collar because if he leaves it, he believes that it somehow keeps the relationship alive and them still tied together on some level, in addition, it is irrevocably tied to THAT relationship so why keep it.

I understand exactly where he is coming from. While I at times have any number of casual partners, those who move beyond that for me, move WAY past being casual partners. I have given away a single collar in my life and had no desire to keep it when that relationship ended. To me, it and the relationship were one, it wasn't some tattered thing I drug around and hung of the next piece of meat I found. PLEASE NOTE, I AM SPEAKING ABOUT MY EMOTIONS, NOT WHAT I FEEL ABOUT OTHERS SO DON'T GO FLAMING ME FOR HOW I FEEL ABOUT MY THINGS.

(in reply to Brosco)

Post #: 58

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 8:15:47 AM

HisTicia

Posts: 203
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline

I can see how you might focus on the collar.. because to you..from what I have read.. it is a very strong symbol..and means a great deal to the relationship. I can tell from your journal that is not all of it though..but usually we do focus on the more "silly" (I don't mean that in a bad way) things when it's too hard to really focus on the person or the thing that made us hurt.

I think we have all been there..be it here .. or in vanilla..and no matter the cause.. it still hurts like Hell..and we can all admit that. You can't make her change her mind.. or change how she feels.. sometimes.. it's best to let it go and move on. Maybe right now.. you can 't bare to let the collar go..that's ok.. it takes time..but soon.. you will..and you will begin to search..and believe it or not.. to love again.

I was engaged..and I thought he loved me (nilla).. I tried everything to make him happy.. to love him..but it didn't work. In the end.. he cheated and I left.. so.. I have been there..and it sucks. One thing I learned was... that even though at the time.. I didn't think I could find someone else.. I did..and now He is my Sir..and I love Him with all of my heart.

Now that I can look back.. I know that yeah, I did kinda love that guy...but.. now I know what real love is..and what it is to be really loved. If I hadn't went thru that..I don't think I would have appreciated what I have now as much.. or would have been as open to Him. Your kitten, though it's a hard thought..may have been a learning experience for you..and that's it. Not that you didn't love her..but.. she was one stage of your life..the learning stage of who you are as a Dom..and now.. you have brought from that many things..many lessons.. to help you better in the future with another sub.. or in a nilla if that is what you prefer now.

This won't happen over night..and for a while... you will be down..and not care about the future at all. One day though..when you least expect it.. you will find the hurt isn't quite as bad...and maybe, just maybe.. you can move on.

Take care................~Ticia

_____________________________

All my soul follows you, love encircles you and I live in being yours. ~Browning

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true. ~Buddha

(in reply to CmotDribbler)

Post #: 59

RE: Leaving the Collar behind. - 6/16/2006 8:23:43 AM

heartfeltsub

Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

CmotDribbler,
I understand completely. I am going through this same pain. When she removed her collar in front of you and placed it on the table, IMO, it was a very symbolic gesture. What to do with the collar? Keep it. Put it away, give yourself time to heal and maybe later you can look at it and smile for the good times you had with your kitten. I also had a very young one and although the circumstances were different, when he left, it devestated me. I got some really good advice and comfort here. Try to ignore the squabbles and take comfort in what is being said to you. If you need someone to talk to, you can email me on the other side. I don't think there is one person on this forum who has not felt the pain of a break-up, whether it was a D/s or vanilla relationship. Pain is pain and the heart knows no difference.

Hugs, you are not alone.

quote:

I understand exactly where he is coming from. While I at times have any number of casual partners, those who move beyond that for me, move WAY past being casual partners. I have given away a single collar in my life and had no desire to keep it when that relationship ended. To me, it and the relationship were one, it wasn't some tattered thing I drug around and hung of the next piece of meat I found. PLEASE NOTE, I AM SPEAKING ABOUT MY EMOTIONS, NOT WHAT I FEEL ABOUT OTHERS SO DON'T GO FLAMING ME FOR HOW I FEEL ABOUT MY THINGS.

Two divergent opinions both very well said, both for very valid reasons. i guess it comes down to which helps the pain to stop faster for you. If keeping the collar and putting it away until you heal some will help, do so. Based on some of what you have said, simply throwing it out is something that at this point you can't handle.

Hope you get some peace and some rest so that you can get some perspective.

heartfelt

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 60

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