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RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/24/2012 12:00:54 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

But honestly my impression of BDSM subs is that there's this weird impossible standard you are supposed to meet. You are supposed to "care for your property" and at the same time be entirely selfish and "do what you want." That's not a game I have any interest in playing for what oughta be obvious reasons.



I've always thought that selfish bastard stuff is restricted to sadists. You're not a sadist so you don't have to be selfish and uncaring if she's unhappy. The Man's not a sadist so he doesn't do it either. If I'm handling things fine, he's just as content not to take over the job. If I screw it up or it gives me panic attacks, he takes control. But that's part of leadership, knowing what to delegate and to whom.

Mostly the ones who do it are sadists. Plus that huge segment of people who want to claim they're dominant so they don't have to learn communication and relationship skills.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/24/2012 5:13:33 PM   
blimey69


Posts: 53
Joined: 12/29/2008
Status: offline 		Im not a sadist by any means. Is it wrong though, to enjoy pain inflicted when the person you are inflicting it upon enjoys it as well? I suppose the biggest question is .....How do you know that? I personally think there is a humongus differnce between mutual pleasure and the need to hurt the other when it is not enjoyed. I also think people who have not taken the time to research, take this as fact for 'everyone' in a lifestyle relationship.


(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/24/2012 5:27:06 PM   
blimey69


Posts: 53
Joined: 12/29/2008
Status: offline 		All of what I said about 'I' Etc was based on the premis it was not a 'lifestyle, bdsm' relationship.

I didnt know she was a sub. Apparently neither did she? I dont quite understand the answer.

It was 7 months after I left for her benefit. (She didnt agree but that is the reason) I found out. Its all in the thread. Or have I misunderstood your answer?

(in reply to SacredDepravity)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/24/2012 5:40:17 PM   
SacredDepravity


Posts: 270
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline 		My post was more in the vein of going forward, what might you take away from this experience with her. I really don't think there's any getting her back and I don't think repeating the same practices with the next one is really going to work either. If you are sure you are dominant, then you'd do best to get yourself figured out, gain some skills both in basic relationship stuff and in terms of dominance and submission, and then use this knowledge to know how you wish to proceed when a subbie reaches your door again.

You did not seem to have your focus in the right place. You seemed to have lost your way in trying to get what you wanted and I am not even sure that you have any clue what you actually want. I am not sure I can be any clearer tonight. I have a feeling this post doesn't make sense.

SD

(in reply to blimey69)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/24/2012 5:52:19 PM   
blimey69


Posts: 53
Joined: 12/29/2008
Status: offline 		Hi Jeff

I really do like our little chats. really informative and helpful. I sort of see where you are comin from wuth the non bdsm thin, and you dont give a rats ass about what people think. Its very British you know..lol

I have been trying to find me. I think I am nearly back to when I was happiest about 96, but with a bit more thought for the future, and wanting to be with someone instead of just shagging them.

I put together something. I would really appreciate if you took a look.  I think I am getting somewhere with me. Cheers

Being a bdsm master seems to me a bit like being in computer support.
Everyone can use a computer
Similarly, anyone could claim they were a master. Just, because they forced women to do their will.
Few people understand a computer and how it works. Like how to fix it when it goes tits up. Even less, understand why it has gone tits up. So that they can, in the future, avoid it going tits up again.
They are uneducated, and formulate their own opinions (which are generally wrong) on what the actual problem is. What caused the problem in the first place?
They are all Numpty’s.  
If I wanted conquest, then continue the (willing) conquest of a woman I had chosen to be with me.
 On condition and understanding she would get the pleasures she wanted, in return for her obedience to me.
Her choice would be to accept what I was offering, and stay.  
Or just to refuse what I was suggesting, and leave with no obligation.
Say she accepted. Everything went smoothly. Both parties were happy and comfortable with the way things were.
If then she wanted more than she knew I was prepared to give. Taking away something that she had been told would destroy my interest in pleasing her. Something she said she would never do. Just because I may refuse her something else that she wants?
If by discussion no agreement on terms could be established, and my need was recognised as true by her.
Should she discipline me in this way, if her role was slave/sub? Even indirectly by using an excuse that appeared valid, but could easily be construed as false?
If it was not a lifestyle agreement and this action was made. Would it not be considered by the masses, that in fact it was a fight for equality? Even though equality was not offered or agreed?
Can I stress also, this is not about my ex. That was far more complicated, and it has been discussed. I may come back to it later when I understand it a bit better. Or I may not. It was never anything to do with lifestyle anyway. I also think it confuses the path I have taken, and the truth of my desire for the lifestyle I have discovered as a consequence.
Frankly that time has passed. It has however raised separate questions which are in no way related to her specifically, but in general should raise my awareness of the boundaries, expectations, and responsibilities of being master to a slave or sub.
I am learning. My opinions have most definitely changed back to what they used to be. Only now, am I beginning to evaluate these past feelings. As before although I felt them, I had no guidance to implement and explore them.
On an end note. After what you said about local masters. Dont suppose you know any masters in Manchester (UK) I could actually chat to. I have tried getting into the scene before here. Not that easy tho

btw, I am southern (they will understand)

Just putting this out there as thoughts. Not quite sure where I am but I do want to go fruther into it. It doesnt excite me sexually, in a kink way. I mean the thought of what I want to be.

What I want to do remians pretty much the same. Alittle twisted, but I like it if the other does. Though the need has subsided in the last week or so. Not even felt the need. Maybe too busy thinking? Not like me at all though...... 
Oh and thanks for all your advice...again :-)  

Cheers
Kev


(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/24/2012 5:55:11 PM   
blimey69


Posts: 53
Joined: 12/29/2008
Status: offline 		Just in case people misunderstood. I meant that people who thought they knew computers were numpty's I was NOT making a comparison to any Masters. I work in IT and those people drive me nuts!

(in reply to blimey69)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/24/2012 6:09:09 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blimey69
Im not a sadist by any means. Is it wrong though, to enjoy pain inflicted when the person you are inflicting it upon enjoys it as well? I suppose the biggest question is .....How do you know that? I personally think there is a humongus differnce between mutual pleasure and the need to hurt the other when it is not enjoyed. I also think people who have not taken the time to research, take this as fact for 'everyone' in a lifestyle relationship.

Define "wrong". How would you know if something was "right" or "wrong"? For instance, Carol is property. There is no "right" or "wrong" in that context. Just "my will" and "that which works" vs. "that which fails".

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to blimey69)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/24/2012 7:15:31 PM   
blimey69


Posts: 53
Joined: 12/29/2008
Status: offline 		Wrong for me would be pain that caused out of spite, not out of anything else. Just because the person causing it enjoyed doing it to someone who didnt for any reason other than their own want. In the knowledge that they had done nothing wrong, but for some irrelivant excuse. one that was not deserved. 

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/24/2012 7:18:42 PM   
blimey69


Posts: 53
Joined: 12/29/2008
Status: offline 		I just feel if it was not deserved, it would cause resentment. Which in turn would cause irreversable damage to the relationship. Surely a relationship based on fear, not wanting to please, but feeling that there is no other choice. Is that weird?

(in reply to blimey69)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/24/2012 7:28:57 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Kudos to Seeking Trinity and Jeff, some great advice from both of you.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to poise)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/24/2012 9:09:22 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blimey69

I just feel if it was not deserved, it would cause resentment. Which in turn would cause irreversable damage to the relationship.

Well, this is what I was leading you to. Right and wrong are moralistic judgements which oft-times don't fit well with BDSM relationships. Stupid, however, is still a factor. For now though let's not get side tracked on pain, punishment, and idiotic Dom behaviors. In my opinion there's more value in learning how to succeed than learning how to not-fail.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to blimey69)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/25/2012 6:37:03 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blimey69
Being a bdsm master seems to me a bit like being in computer support.
Everyone can use a computer
Similarly, anyone could claim they were a master. Just, because they forced women to do their will.

Well I'd have to disagree. Remember you're talking to an engineer here so I like to deal in reality. If you've forced some person to do your will you have, for that moment at least, dominated/mastered them. That leaves a LOT of questions open about how WELL it was done of course but still... a fact's a fact.

quote:

If I wanted conquest, then continue the (willing) conquest of a woman I had chosen to be with me.
 On condition and understanding she would get the pleasures she wanted, in return for her obedience to me.
Her choice would be to accept what I was offering, and stay.  
Or just to refuse what I was suggesting, and leave with no obligation.

Well gosh that's pretty black & white. The third choice is for you two to see if there's some other agreement that might be suitable. For me, at least, what it means for Carol to be my property is that she must be 100% obedient... every command... all the time. But if she chooses not to be my property she's still going to be the woman I love all to death.

quote:

Say she accepted. Everything went smoothly. Both parties were happy and comfortable with the way things were.
If then she wanted more than she knew I was prepared to give. Taking away something that she had been told would destroy my interest in pleasing her. Something she said she would never do. Just because I may refuse her something else that she wants?

I personally prefer to get involved with people who love me and care about me. That should pretty much solve this problem.

quote:

If by discussion no agreement on terms could be established, and my need was recognised as true by her.
Should she discipline me in this way, if her role was slave/sub? Even indirectly by using an excuse that appeared valid, but could easily be construed as false?

I personally prefer to get involved with honorable people who don't try to cheat their partners and their relationships. That should pretty much solve that problem.

There's another aspect you're missing. Nobody can force you to do anything. Nobody can rock you off your perch unless you allow them to. She can say whatever she wants. I'd recommend evaluating what she says and acting according to your own best judgement. If it helps you any Carol is currently in a position where there's something that I want and in her considered opinion it'd be emotionally harmful to her (it's a doozie). For starters I trust Carol to not manipulate me. So we talked about the issue and I understood what the nature of the problem was. Now it's on me to remold her to remove the problem. At no point in this discussion did she ever say or intimate that what I wanted was a "no". She pointed out a problem and is now helping me overcome it -- BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO PLEASE ME TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT OF HER ABILITY AND IS WILLING TO STRETCH HERSELF TO DO SO. You need to get to the place where you can inspire that response in some woman. Then you need to hookup with a suitable partner, lead well, and resolve such issues as a team.

quote:

If it was not a lifestyle agreement and this action was made. Would it not be considered by the masses, that in fact it was a fight for equality? Even though equality was not offered or agreed?
I'm sure you can imagine the depth of my concern for what the masses might think.

quote:

On an end note. After what you said about local masters. Dont suppose you know any masters in Manchester (UK) I could actually chat to. I have tried getting into the scene before here. Not that easy tho

nope... try fetlife. That site allows you to search by very specific geographic areas... down to individual cities in most cases. Or just google for your home town and "munch"


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to blimey69)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/25/2012 10:33:22 AM   
evesgrden


Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
Status: offline
quote:

And since we're talking about handling "negative feedback" evesgrden just basically said that I was submissive



You choose how you will please Carol. When, how much, why and so forth.
Bliimey is grabbing at straws trying please his ex, and praying she will accept it.

I see you as operating from a position of power.
Blimey, not so much.

_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/25/2012 11:10:50 AM   
blimey69


Posts: 53
Joined: 12/29/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks SD, I am here for just that. Find where I am, and gain skills or at least kowledge on how to act.

I have had some sterling advice though. Way ahead much clearer, and will not be approched in the same angle as before. Ever.

After some other help off thread, I now know exactly what I want, just a case of finding what I need to be for that person. Oh yes... and find them.

Sleep is good, sometimes no sleep is equally as rewarding.

(in reply to SacredDepravity)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/25/2012 11:12:49 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		To be fair, that possibility also occurred to me. It also occurred to me that I have a habit of bring theoretical posts down to my real life and things often lose something in that translation. I readily admit I was stretching the possible meanings of your post to make a point to blimey. And as I said anyway, no harm no foul since I didn't see the interpretation of "Jeff is submissive to Carol" as either inappropriate or offensive.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to evesgrden)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/25/2012 11:18:50 AM   
blimey69


Posts: 53
Joined: 12/29/2008
Status: offline 		evesgarden

I was trying to find out why I failed. What you have said I have been told. But then I was not aware of how lifestyle partnerships worked.

I had leave her. I no longer want her back.

I want to, and will now do things differently from now on. Thanks to Jeff's help mainly, and a lot of off thread from another person.

Now I understand why, and as I have said, can we please stop dissecting me and my ex?

Thanks

(in reply to evesgrden)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/25/2012 11:23:44 AM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

To be fair, that possibility also occurred to me. It also occurred to me that I have a habit of bring theoretical posts down to my real life and things often lose something in that translation. I readily admit I was stretching the possible meanings of your post to make a point to blimey. And as I said anyway, no harm no foul since I didn't see the interpretation of "Jeff is submissive to Carol" as either inappropriate or offensive.

Why would it be? Practical knowledge, & how we apply it many times is the difference in having a sub verses standing around with an empty leash & cardboard sign saying "will dom for respect"

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/25/2012 11:27:46 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		I read a couple pages of post...Dunno OP you sound confused and heartbroken. Quit blaming your mom for who you are.. what a copout sheesh. Adults realize they are a product of their upbringing and deal with it not whine about it.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to blimey69)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/25/2012 11:49:46 AM   
blimey69


Posts: 53
Joined: 12/29/2008
Status: offline 		As ever Jeff good advice, thank you. Should of guessed you were an engineer. I was talking about turning on and surfing the web tho...lol

I think what I was missing and what I need to find is that, sit down and discuss attitude.
Maybe it is when I get that point blank no, I go snow blind?

If i am told I cant do a particular thing, and this sounds daft, (but simililar to what you said), me being told no without being told no is never an issue. something along the lines of,,, I cant really do that because,.... instead of, it is out of the question. Bog off!

As for the third choice, it does make sense that is available

Thanks for the fetlife advice. One person has been offering me advice off thread, from a subs view. That has also been valuable.

I love the feeling when someone is able to explain to me, or specifically understand something that was once a mystery to me.

Im nowhere near understanding all of it, but having a better understanding of the why certainly makes a difference. When I look at past times I have been confused and handled a situation incorrectly. The outcome now would be different. Not because you told me it should be, but because what you have said makes sense, and it will be.

Something i have done today, that in the past would never have happened, is blow out a woman and block her on a chat site. I have spoken to her, she is what I want, in terms of what she wants me to do to her sexually. However more confused than I was when I first started this thread. Lot more to it for me blocking her, but without our communication, and your advice for me to look within. I feel I would have done the same thing I have always done in the past.

Thanks mate, owe you one

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Am I switch or Dom? - 11/25/2012 11:52:06 AM   
blimey69


Posts: 53
Joined: 12/29/2008
Status: offline 		sailing bum. Itsbeen a journey, and yes, a hard one. i am not going over anything but page 4. Not being cheeky, just think that I have grown with Jeffs help since the 1st.

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 80
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