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Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 9:09:04 AM   
Reflectivesoul


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline 		For the last 4 and a half years I have taken a bit of pride in always helping newbies where I felt I could. Being that this year makes 9 years within WIITWD I have always felt confident in being able to help someone to be able to look within themselves to see what it is they are looking for, to point them in the right directions if there was something I didnt know. Which is a lot I make no claims to know it all about anything, I still learn from just about every person I come into contact with. Thats the way I was always taught and thought it was supposed to work.
 
Since starting here at CM I have seen many people that blatantly oppose helping newbies or that just dont get involved. I wish I could say that I dont understand that, but the more time I have personally invested in trying to help out and watching it get thrown in my face has given me pause to question why I even bother.
 
For those of you that dont help with newbies, is there a specific reason why you stopped? For those of you that do help, why do you continue?

_____________________________

ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

Gimme some crayons, I want color and I want it now DAMNIT!
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 9:16:10 AM   
BreakMeShakeMe


Posts: 339
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline 		I've helped newbies.. off line.. entering into their new found life... given all the advice I know... and research.... etc...
The usual... go slow... make sure.... do not submit to first don dom that comes along. ..... do not forget safe words... limits.. specially being new and knowing little of limits... and of course... communication.. loads of that...

A few are still going strong as submissives.. a few graduated...(as they put it)... to slaves.. a few got out. Finding they couldn't handle it like they thought they could.

But the ones I back off from.. are the ones who seem to forget all they asked... and still did it.. or didn't do it... I usually let 2 " damn I should of  ( state whatever here)"... after that..I just figure.. they're looking for fun... not a life..and I tell them..go to it.. be careful... and don't keep me informed...LOL


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do, Skill is knowing how to, Virtue is just doing it.

(in reply to Reflectivesoul)
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RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 9:24:04 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I think we have to learn to separate ourselves from those we try to help. When we get too involved on any level with helping anyone, it will hurt when our advice or suggestions or time is not value or produces different results than we hoped. As much as we'd like to be believe we help for the sake of helping, I know that I enjoy seeing someone's mind open up and I thrill when I hear "thank you" from them.

I think this is true regardless of is our help if online, on the phone, in writing, or face-to-face, or hands-on.

It is not easy to do; I don't think most people do learn to separate themselves to the degree they might need.

I used to cry and make myself sick to my stomach when I gave a student an F or D. Then I realised and worked on making this realisation solid for me: "I dont' give it, they earn it". I set up the course, I make the assignments, I'm available to talk to students and I give pretty clear lectures. At that point, its up to the student.

Some thing for a newbie in BDSM. They ask for advice and you give it as clearly as you can. What they do with it is up to them. This letting the responsiblity for the advice go is very hard for many people who feel they want to help.

You learn to do that or you stop helping or you becoming unhelpful in terms of tone and advice.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Reflectivesoul)
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RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 9:25:58 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul
Since starting here at CM I have seen many people that blatantly oppose helping newbies or that just dont get involved.

I haven't seen anyone say that they oppose helping newbies.

I se people say they oppose coddling newbies, they oppose supporting crap ideas that only lead newbies to false illusions, I see people say they won't tell a newbie what to do because they have to figure it out for themselves.

As far as not getting involved- I make a judgement of the situation based on the sincerity and likelihood of effect, based on MY perceptions of the poster.  The recent poster who asked about whether she was a slave/sub, but the real issue is that she's not happy in her marriage.  I didn't post any advice about the marriage because it was obvious to me she'd made her choice and there wasn't any point in going for that.  So I focused on the question she actually was open to discussing.

quote:

For those of you that do help, why do you continue?

Selfish desire to see growth in others and be part of the evolution of the scene. 

Also, the newbies constantly re-ask the same questions and constantly bring new perspectives to the table.  This forces ME to constantly revise my answers, review my own responses and not get stagnant.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Reflectivesoul)
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RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 9:38:26 AM   
TolerableCruelty


Posts: 447
Joined: 2/4/2005
Status: offline 		we already had a somewhat in length discussion on this last night, RS.... and I think I'm still going to stand firm on My position from here on out.

8 years in this so far, and everything I've learned from it has been on My own... whether it be from simply being a "wallflower" and watching the interactions between others in the early days... to actual trial and error when it comes to relationships and hands on techniques.

Like beth says... its like being a parent. Noone can teach you how to do it, you have to learn it on your own. Perhaps we can share experiences, but I'm done holding someones hand and walking them through the simplest or complex  proceedings anymore. Like being a parent, its inherent... you either have the instinct to survive in this lifestyle and progress... or you don't.

I learned on My own... no reason the newbies can't do the same.
I'm not handing anything over to them on a silver platter anymore.

T.R.

~Soon to be upgraded to elitest and snob~

_____________________________

Never explain~~Your friends do not need it, and your enemies will not believe you

I'm sorry if I've offended you.... but maybe you needed to be offended

(in reply to Reflectivesoul)
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RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 9:39:11 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		I help them by never calling them newbies.  Other than that pretty much what LA said.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 9:50:28 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		It is difficult when we give the same advice over and over again and it falls on deaf ears.  Things we tell them, in their best interest, such as "don't rush", "don't take a collar after the first meet", "ask some more questions", "follow your gut", "don't gush about your new relationship, because that is (many times) the kiss o'death", "don't make hasty relocation decisions", etc.  My frustration falls in those areas.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to CrappyDom)
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RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 9:50:59 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
I have to say, I do not like the term newbies - kind of indicates I know more than someone else.
I always consider myself a child.  If I am a child, then I always learn.  And as a child, I support and play with others.
 
The amount of time I have spent practising BDSM has little to do with my 'experience'.
They learn.  I learn.  We all learn.  From each other.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Reflectivesoul)
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RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 9:55:17 AM   
DivaZya


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/15/2005
Status: offline 		Morning Reflective soul ~
I continue helping coz that's the way I AM. I've realized I'm an enhancer - just like any other Super Hero, 'with great power comes great responsibility' *snickers*
Right, I don't know everything, but I have a network of Friends in the Lifestyle as well as My own Life Experience and I enjoy learning from those that come to Me.
Right again, guiding, offering direction and suggestions can get to be a little frustrating when over and over the novices seem bound & determined to go about choosing & meeting so haphazardly!
Still, I believe that My guidance and directives can mean the difference between life & death.
Ever lost even an aquaintance and thought, "it didn't have to end that way - I could have said something?"



_____________________________

~ D/s isn't based on fantasies- it may be motivated by them, but reality must be dealt with, and sometimes sharply! ~

(in reply to Reflectivesoul)
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RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 10:02:44 AM   
Reflectivesoul


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline 		 ok sorry for the newbie term... its overly used yes and I usually dont use it myself but in this instance it fits. New to the lifestyle = newbie.... if your opinion only stems from the usage of one word throughout a whole post then please just pass on by because I am not going to debate over a word. The topic was why do you help or why do you not... period, not what words do you feel are appropriate for ME to convey MY point across to someone else.... thanks....

< Message edited by Reflectivesoul -- 6/16/2006 10:04:24 AM >

_____________________________

ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

Gimme some crayons, I want color and I want it now DAMNIT!

(in reply to DivaZya)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 10:02:47 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Iam with CrappyDom, I also do not call them newbies. Iam new here but not to the scene or lifestyle, so any number of others could be the same and I just give any advice I can share. We can help them avoid some of the pitfalls and online predators, unless of course, that is what they want which can have her seeking even more advice. One I have told to see anyone she likes just check them out and have someone to call etc. She has seen (actually met) with 3 and while finding her submission, still hasn't found THE guy, with one possible exception. We'll see...it is interesting, fun and bonding.

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 10:05:39 AM   
MasterRoissey


Posts: 40
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline 		reflective,
I have been enjoying power exchange relationships for longer than you have been on this lovely planet. I hate the word "lifestyle" , but for the sake of brevity will use it here.  This lifestyle has been very good to me  and has brought me a great deal of satisfaction. I'm old enough to feel that I "owe" back to it. I love guiding/mentoing newbies and novices beginning their journies and finding their own paths. I think that for some first "discovering" these "strange " feelings/desires /needs...it can be down right disconcerting.   And I also find that in the past 10 years or so,with  the burgeoning growth in the number of "Internet Doms", its very easy for a newbie toloose their way.
Guiding newbies is certainly not for every one...and definately shouldn't be!  They can be frustrating and exasperating They can become quite a reponsibility.
I too will be interested to hear the "why" some  have choosen not to . My guess is "I dont have the damned patience for it " may come up.
If it is something that you chose to continue to do , my advice to you would only be that you can't take it personally. Be clear on what need it meets( or doesn't) for you. I expect nothing in return from a trainee other that their honest effort. That is probably a major reason  that I have been able to continue doing so...and still enjoy it! Best wishes on finding your way on this.

(in reply to BreakMeShakeMe)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 10:05:53 AM   
starymists


Posts: 139
Joined: 2/1/2006
Status: offline 		For myself, I got into the lifestyle before the internet. And where I came from, the local group was fairly structured. So I started by having a mentor...who helped me find a trainer. I completed a period of formal training before I was allowed to seek a relationship. But during those times, there were an awful lot of people who took time out to help me find my way. Who shared their experience and knowledge with me. Long after I completed that formalized training period, there were helping hands along the way. A shoulder to cry on, a piece of advice when the road got rough, a ear to listen when I was struggling in myself. So, in a large sense, I give back what was so freely given to me. That was all that was asked by my mentors and trainers. And they did a damned fine job.
 
As far as what they do with what I give...I'm not perfect. I never perfectly followed the advice of those who invested in me. There were times I opinion shopped until I found someone that told me what I wanted to hear. There were times that I just did what I was going to do. I think that is part of the learning curve for some people. Of course, since then, I've come to realize there are guidelines and those guidelines exist for a reason, and that reason is to avoid personal damage. And that lead to a policy of never going agains the guidelines. I doubt I'd be as fanatical about it if I hadn't learned the hard way...so even when they are saying things that hurt and ignoring everything I say, I have only to look at my own history, know they need to learn it the hard way, and be available to pick up the pieces after.
 

 
 

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 10:05:54 AM   
HisTicia


Posts: 203
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		While I am still probably considered a "newbie"..not crazy about the term.  I feel that I can still help and guide those that are coming after me...and while I do that.. I learn also.  I think that even those that have been in it for years..can always learn something new.. or a new prospective on an old idea.  When we all get in trouble..is when we think we know it all...and have nothing more to learn from any situation.
 
As far as the advice I have gotten here.. I think it has helped..and it never falls on deaf ears for me.  Sometimes I agree and apply it..sometimes I don't..but nevertheless I always learn something and take it with me.
 
So for those that keep helping..and yielding your wisdom to me..and to anyone that asks.. I personally thank you.
 
~Ticia
 


_____________________________

All my soul follows you, love encircles you and I live in being yours. ~Browning

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true. ~Buddha


(in reply to Reflectivesoul)
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RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 10:13:31 AM   
TxBadMan


Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

For those of you that dont help with newbies, is there a specific reason why you stopped? For those of you that do help, why do you continue?


I stopped, for the most part, because alot refuse to listen to the advice given. Some, I have found, are only looking to validate their own opinions and feelings. Which is fine. But to ask for advice, and then totally disregard any that might differ from your own; that to me is not asking for help.

On the other side though, there are some who have asked me for specific advice; weighed what I said, and then made an informed decision. When someone is willing to do that, I am more than willing to help in any way I can. They don't have to agree with what I say; but as long as one is willing to have an open mind, and listen; and then make a decision based on what they have learned; I say ask away.

_____________________________

Chris



(in reply to Reflectivesoul)
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RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 10:16:24 AM   
MasterRoissey


Posts: 40
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline 		A fine and (almost forgotten) point by starymists..in the "old days" there was formal training /apprentiships ,so to say . There was good support by knowledgably mentors. That is so lacking these days and probably why novices agree to absurities so often.

_____________________________

"I have no hard limits...and yours are only temporary." Master Roissey

(in reply to HisTicia)
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RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 10:17:07 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows
The amount of time I have spent practising BDSM has little to do with my 'experience'.
 
That's so true.  Can't count the number of times a guy says he's "been poly for 20 years" and what he really means is that he's been married for 15 years in an open marriage and has multiple other girlfriends across the country that he sees on visits and somehow thinks he knows how to live together with two other women.


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 10:32:17 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

For those of you that do help, why do you continue?


Two reasons, really.

You never know with whom you may one day play. If I fail to help someone today, I may have to turn down that person tomorrow because they suck as a player, but if I help them, share my own experiences, mistakes, major fuck-ups, successes, tomorrow they might make a fine player with my wee bit of help. I know what works for me and a whole hell of a lot of it is generic, so it might just work for some others as well.

I also want the BDSM lifestyle to have knowledgeable people within it. I love this life and want to see it get better and better. I'd like to see it filled with people who are skilled, compassionate and will pass on their knowledge to the next generation of up and coming new blood. When someone is helped, they are more likely to turn around and help someone else in the future. I have that pay it forward mindset.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Reflectivesoul)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 10:55:41 AM   
Reflectivesoul


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BreakMeShakeMe

I've helped newbies.. off line.. entering into their new found life... given all the advice I know... and research.... etc...
The usual... go slow... make sure.... do not submit to first don dom that comes along. ..... do not forget safe words... limits.. specially being new and knowing little of limits... and of course... communication.. loads of that...

A few are still going strong as submissives.. a few graduated...(as they put it)... to slaves.. a few got out. Finding they couldn't handle it like they thought they could.

But the ones I back off from.. are the ones who seem to forget all they asked... and still did it.. or didn't do it... I usually let 2 " damn I should of  ( state whatever here)"... after that..I just figure.. they're looking for fun... not a life..and I tell them..go to it.. be careful... and don't keep me informed...LOL



I have kind of a similar stance.... shit on me once shame on you... shit on me twice shame on me ( and no that doesnt mean literally ... scat is not my thing )

 

_____________________________

ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

Gimme some crayons, I want color and I want it now DAMNIT!

(in reply to BreakMeShakeMe)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Helping newbies - 6/16/2006 11:03:34 AM   
Reflectivesoul


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I think we have to learn to separate ourselves from those we try to help. When we get too involved on any level with helping anyone, it will hurt when our advice or suggestions or time is not value or produces different results than we hoped. As much as we'd like to be believe we help for the sake of helping, I know that I enjoy seeing someone's mind open up and I thrill when I hear "thank you" from them.

I think this is true regardless of is our help if online, on the phone, in writing, or face-to-face, or hands-on.

It is not easy to do; I don't think most people do learn to separate themselves to the degree they might need.

I used to cry and make myself sick to my stomach when I gave a student an F or D. Then I realised and worked on making this realisation solid for me: "I dont' give it, they earn it". I set up the course, I make the assignments, I'm available to talk to students and I give pretty clear lectures. At that point, its up to the student.

Some thing for a newbie in BDSM. They ask for advice and you give it as clearly as you can. What they do with it is up to them. This letting the responsiblity for the advice go is very hard for many people who feel they want to help.

You learn to do that or you stop helping or you becoming unhelpful in terms of tone and advice.


I dont have a problem with separating, what bugs me so bad is spending hours and hours with someone, adjusting schedules to be available to that person, then getting accused of being a horrid person... thats always nice....
 

_____________________________

ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

Gimme some crayons, I want color and I want it now DAMNIT!

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 20
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