RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL

RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (Full Version)

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lovmuffin -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:02:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl No. Stand your ground merely means you feel threatened. In all those cases, those people were threatened. SYG means you're not required to retreat if your life is threatened and the threat has to be real. It doesn't mean you can shoot people willy nilly and use it for an excuse. I seriously doubt this guys SYG defense is going to fly. In all what cases are you refering to ?

jlf1961 -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:05:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl No. Stand your ground merely means you feel threatened. In all those cases, those people were threatened. SYG means you're not required to retreat if your life is threatened and the threat has to be real. It doesn't mean you can shoot people willy nilly and use it for an excuse. I seriously doubt this guys SYG defense is going to fly. In all what cases are you refering to ? Uh, if I were to get a the GE XM214 (the hand held mini gun seen in predator) could I use that in a SYG defense? Granted I dont think my concealed carry permit covers this particular weapon.

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:14:45 PM)
quote: SYG means you're not required to retreat if your life is threatened and the threat has to be real. It doesn't mean you can shoot people willy nilly and use it for an excuse. I seriously doubt this guys SYG defense is going to fly. In all what cases are you refering to ? No, they just have to make the Judge (In Florida) believe the threat was real for them.

lovmuffin -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:15:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl No. Stand your ground merely means you feel threatened. In all those cases, those people were threatened. SYG means you're not required to retreat if your life is threatened and the threat has to be real. It doesn't mean you can shoot people willy nilly and use it for an excuse. I seriously doubt this guys SYG defense is going to fly. In all what cases are you refering to ? Uh, if I were to get a the GE XM214 (the hand held mini gun seen in predator) could I use that in a SYG defense? Granted I dont think my concealed carry permit covers this particular weapon. Quite possibly yes, off the top of my head I would say if you're in a SYG state and at your survival retreat, and if you have a registered mini gun then I would assume you could use it to ward off attackers including hoards of violent zombies.

jlf1961 -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:17:55 PM)
Look, the idiots using the SYG defense, such as in the present case, are trying to bend the law. The simple fact that unless the other person is armed, a SYG defense is a joke. At least in Texas you can only resort to the same amount of force that you are being threatened with, meaning if the person is unarmed, you cannot legally use deadly force. Please note that if the aggressor is carrying a knife, bat or any thing that can be used as a weapon, you can blow his fucking head off.

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:19:01 PM)
quote: In all what cases are you refering to ? Your scenarios.

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:20:14 PM)
I agree, it is a joke.

lovmuffin -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:25:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: SYG means you're not required to retreat if your life is threatened and the threat has to be real. It doesn't mean you can shoot people willy nilly and use it for an excuse. I seriously doubt this guys SYG defense is going to fly. In all what cases are you refering to ? No, they just have to make the Judge (In Florida) believe the threat was real for them. Or the jury. I really seriously doubt that in most cases these guys get off such as that guy Texas who shot his neighbor for playing loud music who got a life sentence using SYG as a weak excuse. A good lawyer and a stupid jury can get bad guys off the hook sometimes but that's the way the system works. I mean look at OJ or Casey Anthony.

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:26:20 PM)
In Florida... a SYG is for the Judge. If its upheld, there is no trial.

jlf1961 -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:26:45 PM)
As I have tried to make clear with my sarcasm, SYG is flawed, since you are allowed to use deadly force even if the aggressor is unarmed. Of course, if you are properly trained in the proficient use of a hand gun, you are going to aim center mass, which means any shot you take will likely be fatal. What scares me is these idiots carrying handguns that have only had the very rudimentary training (there are states that require as little as five days training to get the permit.) The classes I took to get my permit required not only shooting but a few classes on threat assessment. Of course if the other guy is armed, the threat is clear. However, if no weapon is evident, then you should be able to deter an aggressor just by drawing your weapon, and with the fact that cell phones are cheap and plans are almost reasonable, use the weapon to detain the individual and use the cell to call the cops.

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:30:13 PM)
quote: The classes I took to get my permit required not only shooting but a few classes on threat assessment. Of course if the other guy is armed, the threat is clear. Even that I dont believe. We had a whole group parading downtown with their guns... the NRA was in town. Just being in possession of a gun doesnt mean you are a threat.

jlf1961 -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:31:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: The classes I took to get my permit required not only shooting but a few classes on threat assessment. Of course if the other guy is armed, the threat is clear. Even that I dont believe. We had a whole group parading downtown with their guns... the NRA was in town. Just being in possession of a gun doesnt mean you are a threat. Tazzy if I am approached in the dark by an armed stranger, I am going to draw and challenge the individual. If he does not answer, then I am going to fire.

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:32:36 PM)
In this case, that wasnt the case. I see your point. Do try and see mine.

jlf1961 -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:37:27 PM)
I see yours, in this situation there was clearly no threat. Nor did the shooter call the police. What I am trying to say is that the law needs to be redone. Perceived threat is not the same as actual threat. The way the law reads, a person can react to a perceived threat, which is subject to personal perception.

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:38:33 PM)
Very true. Its all about perception. And two people can perceive the exact same situation in different ways.

jlf1961 -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:39:48 PM)
Which goes back to my sarcastic but simple plan, give everyone in the state over the age of six handguns and body armor.

lovmuffin -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:41:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Look, the idiots using the SYG defense, such as in the present case, are trying to bend the law. The simple fact that unless the other person is armed, a SYG defense is a joke. At least in Texas you can only resort to the same amount of force that you are being threatened with, meaning if the person is unarmed, you cannot legally use deadly force. Please note that if the aggressor is carrying a knife, bat or any thing that can be used as a weapon, you can blow his fucking head off. Yes, bending the law trying to use SYG is a joke. Using your weapon in response to a legitimate threat isn't. And there are scenarios I could see where unarmed perpetrators could be a threat. In the case of this latest idiot I would say at the moment and assuming we have all the information (which we don't) a SYG defense is a joke the same as that guy in Texas who tried to use it, the joke was on him.

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:45:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Which goes back to my sarcastic but simple plan, give everyone in the state over the age of six handguns and body armor. How about, instead... a novel thought. We simply hold them responsible for their actions. New approach. I know many below the age of 40 havent seen that for a long time.

jlf1961 -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:47:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Which goes back to my sarcastic but simple plan, give everyone in the state over the age of six handguns and body armor. How about, instead... a novel thought. We simply hold them responsible for their actions. New approach. I know many below the age of 40 havent seen that for a long time. The only problem with your plan is that it eliminates natural selection. Look the planet is overcrowded, if we can get this plan adopted world wide, we should be able to cut the worlds population by a significant amount. By the way, please note I did not suggest EFFECTIVE body armor.

lovmuffin -> RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL (12/2/2012 10:51:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I see yours, in this situation there was clearly no threat. Nor did the shooter call the police. What I am trying to say is that the law needs to be redone. Perceived threat is not the same as actual threat. The way the law reads, a person can react to a perceived threat, which is subject to personal perception. Certainly the SYG ground law should not apply to a perceived threat without some kind of qualification. If the law needs to be redone then so be it but if I'm the judge or I'm on that jury the threat had best have been real.

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