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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 5:51:57 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

There was/is a history-old, similar dynamic going on with bigoted poor whites against poor blacks.The reasoning being that they have a need to feel superior to someone else....for some reason.

Do you think that dynamic may have had its roots in the exploitive economics of the Plantation System which excluded whites from the labor market? In a similar fashion we see the dynamic being played out today in the "red states" against Latino migrants, although the real exploitive competition is in outsourcing to southeast Asia. The latter (Asia) is out of sight so out of mind, I think.

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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 8:50:08 PM   
Level


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quote:


Most people on public assistance don't have a character flaw. They just have a tough life.


I was surprised a bit to hear Lindsey Graham make the above statement.

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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 8:53:51 PM   
jlf1961


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I heard from a friend of mine today reminded me of something.

Although the defense department will not admit it, many families of enlisted military personnel qualify and get food stamps.

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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 8:57:44 PM   
erieangel


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Poverty is having no phone, no car, no cable TV (though I did have a color TV, so by some standards I wasn't poor) struggling to pay the utilities.

Poverty is having to feed your young children ramen noodles for dinner every day for nearly a week because your food stamps didn't last the entire month.

Poverty is wearing the same clothes for 2-3 days to cut down on the amount of laundry you take to the laundry mat in an effort to save money.

Poverty is standing in line for 3 hours in order to get a free turkey only to be turned away because the agency only had 1500 of them and you got there an hour later than most everybody else, who started to line up 4 hours before they even started giving the turkeys away. And now, with only 3 days to Thanksgiving, you have no means to provide a Thanksgiving dinner to your family.

Poverty is wearing shoes with holes in them, clothes that had obviously seen better days and skipping meals so that your children don't go hungry or face teasing for not having at least decent looking clothing.

Poverty is an 18 yr. old high school senior who had been rejected by his adoptive parents 4 years before; coming out of placement and relying on the kindness of school officials for things like a winter coat, bus fare and even hygiene products until he can find a job a pay for some of those things himself because PA no longer has general assistance.

And finally, poverty looks like this homeless situation in NYC:

http://www.alternet.org/how-one-gop-plutocrat-helped-make-20000-kids-homeless?akid=9741.286161.XyTX3H&rd=1&src=newsletter753280&t=3

All the while we have this:

http://www.alternet.org/economy/eight-reasons-wall-street-greed-cause-and-solution-phony-fiscal-cliff-crisis?akid=9741.286161.XyTX3H&rd=1&src=newsletter753280&t=5

And yes, all of the examples I gave come from personal experience. Though some of the examples were faced by people I know, many were faced by myself.

Some say there is no poverty in the US because of the social safety net. Consider this: If there truly was no poverty, or so little poverty it could actually be handled by private charities (which I would actually never advocate, no matter the poverty rate) there would be very little need for many of the social programs. The food stamp program was developed to serve to populations---the urban poor who struggled to feed themselves and the family farmers, many of whom were themselves poor. In fact, it was only by putting the food stamp program into a farm bill and saying how much the program would help the farmer that democrats were able to get republican support for the program at all. (But then Eisenhower was only able to build the interstate highway system by declaring it a national defense measure).

When talking about poverty or the lack of poverty in this country, people often forget how poverty affects those living in it--especially the children. Children in poverty don't do as well in school as their peers, from K-12 grades, those in extreme poverty have lower grades, lack social skills and often suffer from depression which in young children will manifest as behavioral problems. They often drop out of school because of the depression and a sense of being of targeted due to the behavior problems and give up. And while some will show stereotypical signs of malnutrition by being extremely underweight, most will be overweight. This is caused from a diet consisting mainly of carbohydrates and lacking in fresh fruits and vegetables. Potato, pasta, cereal and rice are some of the cheapest foods on the market and poor people buy them in abundance because they are also very filling. Food pantries also tend to give away these starchy staples more than anything else.

I read recently that Cory Booker was going to try to live for one week on the equivalent to what a food stamp recipient would receive. In NJ, that's about $1.47 a day. While I don't believe one week is enough time to paint an accurate picture of how abysmally we feed the poor, I eagerly await what Mr. Booker has to say after his week on a "food stamp diet".












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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 9:02:50 PM   
Powergamz1


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Although the defense department will not admit it




http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=43305

< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 12/1/2012 9:06:32 PM >


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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 9:12:57 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Poverty is having no phone, no car, no cable TV (though I did have a color TV, so by some standards I wasn't poor) struggling to pay the utilities.

Poverty is having to feed your young children ramen noodles for dinner every day for nearly a week because your food stamps didn't last the entire month.

Poverty is wearing the same clothes for 2-3 days to cut down on the amount of laundry you take to the laundry mat in an effort to save money.

Poverty is standing in line for 3 hours in order to get a free turkey only to be turned away because the agency only had 1500 of them and you got there an hour later than most everybody else, who started to line up 4 hours before they even started giving the turkeys away. And now, with only 3 days to Thanksgiving, you have no means to provide a Thanksgiving dinner to your family.

Poverty is wearing shoes with holes in them, clothes that had obviously seen better days and skipping meals so that your children don't go hungry or face teasing for not having at least decent looking clothing.

Poverty is an 18 yr. old high school senior who had been rejected by his adoptive parents 4 years before; coming out of placement and relying on the kindness of school officials for things like a winter coat, bus fare and even hygiene products until he can find a job a pay for some of those things himself because PA no longer has general assistance.

And finally, poverty looks like this homeless situation in NYC:

http://www.alternet.org/how-one-gop-plutocrat-helped-make-20000-kids-homeless?akid=9741.286161.XyTX3H&rd=1&src=newsletter753280&t=3

All the while we have this:

http://www.alternet.org/economy/eight-reasons-wall-street-greed-cause-and-solution-phony-fiscal-cliff-crisis?akid=9741.286161.XyTX3H&rd=1&src=newsletter753280&t=5

And yes, all of the examples I gave come from personal experience. Though some of the examples were faced by people I know, many were faced by myself.

Some say there is no poverty in the US because of the social safety net. Consider this: If there truly was no poverty, or so little poverty it could actually be handled by private charities (which I would actually never advocate, no matter the poverty rate) there would be very little need for many of the social programs. The food stamp program was developed to serve to populations---the urban poor who struggled to feed themselves and the family farmers, many of whom were themselves poor. In fact, it was only by putting the food stamp program into a farm bill and saying how much the program would help the farmer that democrats were able to get republican support for the program at all. (But then Eisenhower was only able to build the interstate highway system by declaring it a national defense measure).

When talking about poverty or the lack of poverty in this country, people often forget how poverty affects those living in it--especially the children. Children in poverty don't do as well in school as their peers, from K-12 grades, those in extreme poverty have lower grades, lack social skills and often suffer from depression which in young children will manifest as behavioral problems. They often drop out of school because of the depression and a sense of being of targeted due to the behavior problems and give up. And while some will show stereotypical signs of malnutrition by being extremely underweight, most will be overweight. This is caused from a diet consisting mainly of carbohydrates and lacking in fresh fruits and vegetables. Potato, pasta, cereal and rice are some of the cheapest foods on the market and poor people buy them in abundance because they are also very filling. Food pantries also tend to give away these starchy staples more than anything else.

I read recently that Cory Booker was going to try to live for one week on the equivalent to what a food stamp recipient would receive. In NJ, that's about $1.47 a day. While I don't believe one week is enough time to paint an accurate picture of how abysmally we feed the poor, I eagerly await what Mr. Booker has to say after his week on a "food stamp diet".













poverty is when you are getting help from people on food stamps to feed your family. poverty is when you haven't have heat or hot water for three years.

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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 9:14:57 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I heard from a friend of mine today reminded me of something.

Although the defense department will not admit it, many families of enlisted military personnel qualify and get food stamps.

when in the service I had an airman with two kids, he was on food stamps and wick, very common

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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 9:15:46 PM   
tazzygirl


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poverty is when you are getting help from people on food stamps to feed your family. poverty is when you haven't have heat or hot water for three years.

Yes, we know thats the GOP definition, according to you, Bama.

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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 9:18:40 PM   
erieangel


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I don't know about food stamps, but in 1997 my brother-in-law was in the Army, stationed in San Francisco and my sister was working (and making very good money) as the head of customer relations in a large bank (at the time), their kids got WIC.

"but it's a function of the size of their families more than anything else"

I disagree with this statement, in the 3rd paragraph of the article because my sister and her husband had only 2 kids. With both of them working full time, living on base, and my sister earning nearly twice what he earned, why were they even eligible for WIC?




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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 9:30:57 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

I and others understood the OP better than you did, as proven in many posts here.



Well now that's mighty interesting, Edwynn. So you are saying the little gaggle who stalk my posts are the experts on what I "really," think, huh?


No, that's not what I said at all. No one claims to know what you ''think," being that what would otherwise resemble some thought process, was missing from the start , it being the case that the OP was completely devoid of such process.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/1/2012 9:40:20 PM >

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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 9:43:40 PM   
TheHeretic


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I'm not sure how the WIC eligibility is determined, but the standards are much looser than for SNAP. There was a little store around here, when we first moved into this place, that only carried WIC eligible products. I liked buying my milk in there, because it was very fresh, but I had to have exact change, because I was her only cash customer.



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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 10:22:09 PM   
Edwynn


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Is ExxonMobile poor? Is Goldman Sachs poor? Is Koch Bros. poor?

So why does it trouble you that a person making $15,000 a year working full time at Taco Bell is considered as living in poverty (actually not, the official poverty level being $11,170 per year), while a corporation who has net profit of $15-20 billion in a year, taking many millions of your tax money all the while, not trouble you?

Pardon us if we choose to ignore this stupidity.



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/1/2012 10:29:55 PM >

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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 10:36:36 PM   
TheHeretic


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So start a thread, Edwynn. Just don't be surprised if I choose to ignore the stupidity you offer there, too.

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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 10:50:51 PM   
Edwynn


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The whole premise of the OP is that poor people are not really poor.

I merely pointed out that some fabulously rich people and more than a few fabulously rich corporations are not poor, either, though they get tremendous tax breaks.

Your tax dollars at work.

Suck it.



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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 10:52:01 PM   
jlf1961


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I saw a way to end the problem of poverty on Futurama. Convert the poor into Soylent Green.

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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 10:54:52 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Suck it.




You fucking wish.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 11:00:34 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


The whole premise of the OP is that poor people are not really poor.





Nonsense. The premise is that how poor people are counted, doesn't have much to do with what is normally perceived as "poverty."

If you are unable to participate in the conversation, without restating the subject into something where your ignorance won't be repeatedly placed on display, do feel free to run along. Into traffic, would be my suggestion.



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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 11:01:33 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Suck it.




You fucking wish.


We wish for cogent discussions/threads over trolling and self-masturbatory OPs.

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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 11:02:46 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I saw a way to end the problem of poverty on Futurama. Convert the poor into Soylent Green.



I think we'd be better off doing that with the baby-boomers.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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RE: What is, "poverty?" - 12/1/2012 11:08:05 PM   
VideoAdminTheta


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Well, this will be a nice time out. An over night one. I will be back to clean up tomorrow.

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