RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 4:24:41 AM)

screwing welfare/poor kids recipients
Some of the recovered toys that were stolen from the Toronto Salvation Army over a two-year period are being returned to the charity, police say.

Two trailers’ worth of stolen items, including bedding, food and infant strollers, were given back to the Sally Ann on Thursday. Police say more recovered items will be returned on Friday with the remainder by Monday.

The toys were returned after the Crown Attorney’s Office consented to a police request to return the items so the Sally Ann can distribute them to needy families.

The Salvation Army said that David Rennie, the executive director of its Railside Road warehouse, was fired last month after an internal audit — prompted by a whistle-blower in August — revealed $2 million worth of toys as well as food and other donated products were taken over a 24-month period from that east-end warehouse.

Rennie surrendered to police on Nov. 26 and was charged with numerous offences, including theft over $5,000 and possession of stolen property.

I used to work for this schmoe, hated people who needed help
Now he is getting his comeuppance, the dick sucking ass licking conservative anal leak.




meatcleaver -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 4:55:40 AM)

When people defraud welfare they are usually making rational decisions based on their own unique situation in the same way the rich defraud tax and use, if not out and out legally corrupt practices, then morally corrupt practices which rich politicians, being the same and having the same interests as those rich, refuse to make illegal.




Lucylastic -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 5:01:40 AM)

The problem is Meat(and I agree with you regarding the housing issue in the UK too as I was in the posiion back then)
That its not going to change... blaming the poor and excusing the raping of corporate welfare by the billions that is.
impunity is great for the rich and greedy.




meatcleaver -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 5:09:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The problem is Meat(and I agree with you regarding the housing issue in the UK too as I was in the posiion back then)
That its not going to change... blaming the poor and excusing the raping of corporate welfare by the billions that is.
impunity is great for the rich and greedy.



I couldn't agree more. In Britain at least, the rich (individuals and corporations) avoid and evade an estimated (by LSE and the government) between 80-120 billion per year, while welfare fraud accounts for 1 billion per year. If the government clamped down on tax evasion and avoidence, the UK wouldn't have a deficit.




stellauk -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 8:43:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

So there is an actual real-life scenario that I actually lived through.
My step-daughter, who is 23 and single, has been told she'll have to wait until she's at least 25 before she will be accepted to go on the housing list and there is a minimum 6 year waiting time.
She sees this type of scenario almost every week with immigrants and assylum seekers that haven't been in the country five minutes.



You are aware, are you not, that local councils receive (I think) £150,000 for every asylum seeker or refugee family that they manage to successfully resettle into permanent accommodation?

Would that explain anything to you?




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 9:02:57 AM)

They probably do stella.

But if you complain about them, they will tell you outright that everyone is graded and awarded points and from your points allocation they will decide where you go on the housing list and that there is absolutely no favouritism whatsoever.

I call it BS and they don't like it.
I fail to see that someone, fresh into the country, manages to get priority over a UK born and bred person who's parents have paid into the tax system.
I think they should take into account how long you've been in the country and how long you've been on the housing list.

I really like the recent idea of capping the benefit payments of those with more than 2 or 3 kids.
That would stop exorbitant claims by these immigrants with a footbal team and those girls/women who can't shut their legs.
If they get it right, it would also stop those sort of people from claiming £000's per week in rent for a mansion because only a certain number of kids would be considered for housing claims.
If you can't afford them, don't have them, and don't expect the system to pay for them either.
That could save the country's benefit bill by £millions (if not £billions) in freebie handouts and put that money where its most needed - our pensioners and those genuine people with disabilities and for social housing.




PeonForHer -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 10:08:59 AM)

quote:

I really like the recent idea of capping the benefit payments of those with more than 2 or 3 kids.


That punishes the kids, though - it wasn't their fault they got born.




meatcleaver -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 10:22:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

They probably do stella.

But if you complain about them, they will tell you outright that everyone is graded and awarded points and from your points allocation they will decide where you go on the housing list and that there is absolutely no favouritism whatsoever.

I call it BS and they don't like it.
I fail to see that someone, fresh into the country, manages to get priority over a UK born and bred person who's parents have paid into the tax system.
I think they should take into account how long you've been in the country and how long you've been on the housing list.

I really like the recent idea of capping the benefit payments of those with more than 2 or 3 kids.
That would stop exorbitant claims by these immigrants with a footbal team and those girls/women who can't shut their legs.
If they get it right, it would also stop those sort of people from claiming £000's per week in rent for a mansion because only a certain number of kids would be considered for housing claims.
If you can't afford them, don't have them, and don't expect the system to pay for them either.
That could save the country's benefit bill by £millions (if not £billions) in freebie handouts and put that money where its most needed - our pensioners and those genuine people with disabilities and for social housing.



Why are you so bitter? The rich rip the country off far more than any supposed army of poor.The rich not only created the crisis, many profited from it. If there is anyone you should be angry about, it is the rich establishment, corrupt politicians, psycopathic corporations and the banksters of course.




tj444 -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 10:36:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Why are you so bitter? The rich rip the country off far more than any supposed army of poor.The rich not only created the crisis, many profited from it. If there is anyone you should be angry about, it is the rich establishment, corrupt politicians, psycopathic corporations and the banksters of course.

and dont forget those extremely wealthy musicians.. like McCartney, "Saint" Bono (the biggest hypocrite going imo), etc etc who once they start making money move offshore even more easily & quickly than the corps, etc do..

Houston, TX took applications for Section 8 for 1 week in August & got over 83,000 applications from poor people & families.. pretty sad so many need help but they have to wait several years on the list to eventually get that help.. Only people with no other options would wait that long for the little bit of help (for the basics) they do get.. jmo..




Rule -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 10:40:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

I really like the recent idea of capping the benefit payments of those with more than 2 or 3 kids.

That punishes the kids, though - it wasn't their fault they got born.

Yes, it was.

I am in favor of abolishing all wellfare and all child benefits. (And I am on wellfare myself at the moment, as my savings have run out, so no-one may accuse me of being prejudiced.)

All that money is better spend in the beta sciences.




tazzygirl -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 10:50:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I really like the recent idea of capping the benefit payments of those with more than 2 or 3 kids.


That punishes the kids, though - it wasn't their fault they got born.


Its been tried. Called the "Wisconsin Plan" by Bush.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-04-11/news/9202020396_1_wisconsin-plan-welfare-reform-dependent-children

And limits over all were tried...

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-11-02/news/9311020201_1_limit-welfare-afdc-families-with-dependent-children




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 10:59:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

They probably do stella.

But if you complain about them, they will tell you outright that everyone is graded and awarded points and from your points allocation they will decide where you go on the housing list and that there is absolutely no favouritism whatsoever.

I call it BS and they don't like it.
I fail to see that someone, fresh into the country, manages to get priority over a UK born and bred person who's parents have paid into the tax system.
I think they should take into account how long you've been in the country and how long you've been on the housing list.

I really like the recent idea of capping the benefit payments of those with more than 2 or 3 kids.
That would stop exorbitant claims by these immigrants with a footbal team and those girls/women who can't shut their legs.
If they get it right, it would also stop those sort of people from claiming £000's per week in rent for a mansion because only a certain number of kids would be considered for housing claims.
If you can't afford them, don't have them, and don't expect the system to pay for them either.
That could save the country's benefit bill by £millions (if not £billions) in freebie handouts and put that money where its most needed - our pensioners and those genuine people with disabilities and for social housing.



Why are you so bitter? The rich rip the country off far more than any supposed army of poor.The rich not only created the crisis, many profited from it. If there is anyone you should be angry about, it is the rich establishment, corrupt politicians, psycopathic corporations and the banksters of course.



I am bitter because soo many native British people are needlessly suffering because a lot of the immigrants and shag-happy young girls are playing the benefits system at the expense of the genuinely needy. They aren't breaking any laws - the system actually allows them to do it and that's what is wrong with the system as it stands now.

The rich of course, all those that you mentioned, play the tax system to the detriment of all those doing it properly that the tax man grabs. Again, they aren't breaking any laws - it's the tax system that is allowing it to happen.

A simple cure for the tax cheats -
Pay tax on what your gross earnings are like any normal PAYE employee does.
If you still have profits to shunt overseas then it wouldn't affect how much tax you pay.



quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I really like the recent idea of capping the benefit payments of those with more than 2 or 3 kids.


That punishes the kids, though - it wasn't their fault they got born.


Cancel the IVF treatments and give those kids to the rich that are paying for IVF.
That would also save the NHS a few £millions too.

The kids are suffering because of irresponsible parents.
I know of two single-mum families near me that openly admit to having kids just to get the benefits because it pays far more than they could ever earn in a job.

If the system didn't allow them to reap the additional benefits, many of them wouldn't have so many kids and maybe they'd think twice about having them.
It was reported recently in the BBC news that many working families don't have more kids because they just can't afford them.
Yes, there are some genuine cases out there but I haven't come across a single one yet. All the ones I have met have done it deliberately to play the system to get more money in benefits.





Rule -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 11:02:41 AM)

Clearly the moms are guilty, so cart them off to a monastery with their children and let them grow their own food there. It will stop them from reproducing and they will have a roof over their head and education by the nuns for their children. If they manage to find a husband to provide for them, they can leave the monastery.




meatcleaver -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 11:03:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

I really like the recent idea of capping the benefit payments of those with more than 2 or 3 kids.

That punishes the kids, though - it wasn't their fault they got born.

Yes, it was.

I am in favor of abolishing all wellfare and all child benefits. (And I am on wellfare myself at the moment, as my savings have run out, so no-one may accuse me of being prejudiced.)

All that money is better spend in the beta sciences.



Surely all the money spent on a bloated military industrial complex could be bettwer spent, especially when there is evidence enough through historic experiences, bloated militaries undermine an economy and impoverish a population.

An impoverished population creates a whole host of expensive social prolems which end up being more expensive than it would to pay welfare in the first place.

Mass unemployment has been a neo-liberal capitalist policy in the west over the last 30 years, the ida basically to keep wages low and ordinary people firmly in their place, quiet and acquiescent while the capitalist rich redistribute wealth upwards. It is not for nothing the middleclass is shrinking in the USA and UK, the most capitalist of all westrn countries. The least capitalist countries maintaining their middleclass.  




tazzygirl -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 11:03:45 AM)

quote:

The kids are suffering because of irresponsible parents.
I know of two single-mum families near me that openly admit to having kids just to get the benefits because it pays far more than they could ever earn in a job.


In the US, we have a 5 year cap. That cap can be extended at the states choice... or even shortened. But then the recipient has to move onto another program.




PeonForHer -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 11:16:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I really like the recent idea of capping the benefit payments of those with more than 2 or 3 kids.


That punishes the kids, though - it wasn't their fault they got born.


Its been tried. Called the "Wisconsin Plan" by Bush.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-04-11/news/9202020396_1_wisconsin-plan-welfare-reform-dependent-children

And limits over all were tried...

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-11-02/news/9311020201_1_limit-welfare-afdc-families-with-dependent-children



Did it work? Were the kids involved unpunished by it?




Rule -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 11:18:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Surely all the money spent on a bloated military industrial complex could be bettwer spent, especially when there is evidence enough through historic experiences, bloated militaries undermine an economy and impoverish a population.

It is better to be safe than sorry. As the Romans said: If you want peace, then you had better prepare for war.

How much is being spent on the military will be up to circumstances.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
An impoverished population creates a whole host of expensive social prolems which end up being more expensive than it would to pay welfare in the first place.

They will vote with their feet and move to where they can afford to live. As a consequence in the emptied country labor will be in short supply and wages will increase.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Mass unemployment has been a neo-liberal capitalist policy in the west over the last 30 years, the ida basically to keep wages low and ordinary people firmly in their place, quiet and acquiescent while the capitalist rich redistribute wealth upwards. It is not for nothing the middleclass is shrinking in the USA and UK, the most capitalist of all westrn countries. The least capitalist countries maintaining their middleclass.  

My tax scheme would end that: it favors a large middle class.

To which I add that I am in favour of severe birth and population control in Europe with some leeway for exceptions. As well as a complete refugee stop in Europe for non-Europeans.




tazzygirl -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 11:29:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I really like the recent idea of capping the benefit payments of those with more than 2 or 3 kids.


That punishes the kids, though - it wasn't their fault they got born.


Its been tried. Called the "Wisconsin Plan" by Bush.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-04-11/news/9202020396_1_wisconsin-plan-welfare-reform-dependent-children

And limits over all were tried...

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-11-02/news/9311020201_1_limit-welfare-afdc-families-with-dependent-children



Did it work? Were the kids involved unpunished by it?


http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/civilrights/activities/examples/TANF/wi_tanf_w2study.pdf

It is still in use.. and has merit. If you can move people off welfare in 2 years, the number of children should not matter.

I have no problem with "workfare" instead of welfare. However, I also agree that one "oops" is enough. After that, if a woman gets pregnant on welfare, then there should be a penalty. I had seen a plan to cut the "opps" cash increase to 1/2 of what it would normally be, thereby making it less "lucrative" to have more children to avoid going back to work... but that was only the cash. The kids would still be covered under the other programs. I could even agree to that.

But this is not realistic in an economy with a 14% (or more) unemployment rate.




tazzygirl -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 11:31:55 AM)

quote:

They will vote with their feet and move to where they can afford to live. As a consequence in the emptied country labor will be in short supply and wages will increase.


Which is why we have so many illegals in the US.





Hillwilliam -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 11:31:56 AM)

Back to the OP. I see this stuff every day as I live in appalachia. You won't find any of those people driving a car with an Obama sticker. Hard core, straight ticket Republicans.




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