RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (Full Version)

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Rule -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 11:37:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Which is why we have so many illegals in the US.

Clearly the countries they come from are a lot smarter than the USA is.




tazzygirl -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 11:39:12 AM)

lol.... yeah.... you go with that theory.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 11:58:47 AM)

*wonders if someone is off their meds again*




PeonForHer -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 2:11:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Back to the OP. I see this stuff every day as I live in appalachia. You won't find any of those people driving a car with an Obama sticker. Hard core, straight ticket Republicans.


I should be surprised, but I'm not.




meatcleaver -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 2:12:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

It is better to be safe than sorry. As the Romans said: If you want peace, then you had better prepare for war.

How much is being spent on the military will be up to circumstances.


In the end the Romans couldn't afford to pay their army which ended up happy to do deals with the barbarians on the frontiers. However, even at its height, Rome didn't have a huge army, it had 300,000 professional soldiers and most of the Roman empire was won through commerce, like the British empire and the American empire (though I know Americans don't believe they have an empire, while most people in the world claim they do).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
They will vote with their feet and move to where they can afford to live. As a consequence in the emptied country labor will be in short supply and wages will increase.


That's capitalist wishful thinking which is as doctrinaire as communist wishful thinking. The capitalist deregulation of the last 30 years has been impoverishing the west, not enriching it, which is why the middleclasses are in decline.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

My tax scheme would end that: it favors a large middle class.

To which I add that I am in favour of severe birth and population control in Europe with some leeway for exceptions. As well as a complete refugee stop in Europe for non-Europeans.


Birth rate is almost in free fall in western Europe and pretty even continent wide, its reaching an old age population bulge when the population will go into a steep decline so I don't see your point. Capitalists say there is a need for immigration to replace the population while the same capitalists can't run a shoe shine business never mind create jobs. Rightwing thinking is all over the place.

No tax system is going to save the middleclass as long as neo-liberal capitalism is redistributing wealth upwards.




Rule -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 2:51:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
The capitalist deregulation of the last 30 years has been impoverishing the west, not enriching it, which is why the middleclasses are in decline.

I agree. Those who rule us appear to be suffering from massive hemorrhages in their brains.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Birth rate is almost in free fall in western Europe and pretty even continent wide, its reaching an old age population bulge when the population will go into a steep decline so I don't see your point.

Steep declines are good in this case.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Capitalists say there is a need for immigration to replace the population while the same capitalists can't run a shoe shine business never mind create jobs.

Again: I agree that our rulers despite a very high IQ appear to be less bright than a quarter candle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
No tax system is going to save the middleclass as long as neo-liberal capitalism is redistributing wealth upwards.

I disagree. My tax system limits greed.




Politesub53 -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 4:21:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

So there is an actual real-life scenario that I actually lived through.
My step-daughter, who is 23 and single, has been told she'll have to wait until she's at least 25 before she will be accepted to go on the housing list and there is a minimum 6 year waiting time.
She sees this type of scenario almost every week with immigrants and assylum seekers that haven't been in the country five minutes.



You are aware, are you not, that local councils receive (I think) £150,000 for every asylum seeker or refugee family that they manage to successfully resettle into permanent accommodation?

Would that explain anything to you?




I`m still laughing at his claim that a pregnant woman under 20 has six kids.




PeonForHer -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 4:32:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
I`m still laughing at his claim that a pregnant woman under 20 has six kids.


You don't read the Sun often enough, PS. It's written by people who have the highest probity. None of them is known for having done anything remotely underhand or dishonest, you know.




tazzygirl -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 4:36:52 PM)

quote:

2) A young girl (under 20), visibly pregnant with 6 kids and a new boyfriend. Been waiting about 6 months for somewhere to live because her mum was fed up with all the kids living at home. She openly admitted that she wants as many kids as possible so the council will provide a decent home for her and her boyfriend and lots of money in benefits.


Under 20 with 6 kids.... when you say visibly pregnant, do you mean pregnant with 6 babies at once?




kalikshama -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 5:26:53 PM)

I'd like to get back to the OP too.

Profiting From a Child's Illiteracy

THIS is what poverty sometimes looks like in America: parents here in Appalachian hill country pulling their children out of literacy classes. Moms and dads fear that if kids learn to read, they are less likely to qualify for a monthly check for having an intellectual disability.

Many people in hillside mobile homes here are poor and desperate, and a $698 monthly check per child from the Supplemental Security Income program goes a long way — and those checks continue until the child turns 18.

“The kids get taken out of the program because the parents are going to lose the check,” said Billie Oaks, who runs a literacy program here in Breathitt County, a poor part of Kentucky. “It’s heartbreaking.”


I think this is heartbreaking too. My impulse is not to penalize the misguided parents but to donate to Save The Children.

...Yet there are ways of breaking this cycle. That’s what Save the Children is doing here, working with children while they’re still malleable, and it’s an approach that should be a centerpiece of America’s antipoverty program. Almost anytime the question is poverty, the answer is children.

Save the Children trains community members to make home visits to at-risk moms like Ms. Hurley, and help nurture the skills they need in the world’s toughest job: parenting. These visits begin in pregnancy and continue until the child is 3 years old.

I followed Courtney Trent, 22, one of these early childhood coordinators, as she visited a series of houses. She encourages the mothers (and the fathers, if they’re around) to read to the children, tell stories, talk to them, hug them. If the parents can’t read, then Ms. Trent encourages them to flip the pages on picture books and talk about what they see.

Ms. Trent brings a few books on each visit, and takes back the ones she had left the previous time. Many of the homes she visits don’t own a single children’s book.

She sat on the floor in Ms. Hurley’s living room, pulled a book out of her bag, and encouraged her to read to her 20-month-old son, Landon. Ms. Hurley said that she was never read to as a child, but she was determined to change the pattern.

“I just want him to go to school,” she said of Landon. “I want him to go to college and get out of this place.” Ms. Hurley said she was clean of drugs, working full time at a Wendy’s, and hoping to go back to school to become a nurse. I’d bet on her — and on Landon.

“When kids come to us through this program and come here, we can see a big difference,” Ron Combs, the principal at Lyndon B. Johnson Elementary School here, told me. “They’re really ready to go. Otherwise, we have kids so far behind that they struggle to catch up.

“By second or third grade, you have a pretty good feeling about who’s going to drop out,” he added.

A group of teachers were in the room, and they all nodded. Wayne Sizemore, director of special education in Breathitt County, puts it this way: “The earlier we can get them, the better. It’s like building a foundation for a house.”


Read more: www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/opinion/sunday/kristof-profiting-from-a-childs-illiteracy.html?pagewanted=all&_r=2&




TheHeretic -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 6:14:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Back to the OP. I see this stuff every day as I live in appalachia. You won't find any of those people driving a car with an Obama sticker. Hard core, straight ticket Republicans.



Which has what to do with what, Hillwilliam? Surely you aren't suggesting a political background investigation be added to the welfare application, or something like that?




Hillwilliam -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 6:31:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Back to the OP. I see this stuff every day as I live in appalachia. You won't find any of those people driving a car with an Obama sticker. Hard core, straight ticket Republicans.



Which has what to do with what, Hillwilliam? Surely you aren't suggesting a political background investigation be added to the welfare application, or something like that?

No, I'm just once again pointing out partisan hypocrisy.
People vote for whatever some TV pundit or their preacher tells them to without using that God given appendage known as a "Brain".




TheHeretic -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 6:35:09 PM)

Holy crap! Somebody actually read the article!

I thought this was the most tragic line in the piece:

quote:

“By second or third grade, you have a pretty good feeling about who’s going to drop out,” he added.






TheHeretic -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 6:41:51 PM)

And out here in CA, Hillwilliam, we have 0.1%er trust fund babies who have never, and will never, work a day in their lives, who vote Democrat based on celebrity and cool, and knee-jerk bleeding heart liberalism.





tazzygirl -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 6:46:33 PM)

And all over the country, trust fund babies voted for Romney because Mumsy and Daddy told them the only way to keep their money was to vote Republican.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 6:48:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

And out here in CA, Hillwilliam, we have 0.1%er trust fund babies who have never, and will never, work a day in their lives, who vote Democrat based on celebrity and cool, and knee-jerk bleeding heart liberalism.



They're hypocrites as well. Did I ever say they werent?




TheHeretic -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/11/2012 6:51:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

They're hypocrites as well. Did I ever say they werent?


I think this is worth it's own thread, Hillwilliam.





TheHeretic -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/12/2012 6:23:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I`m still laughing at his claim that a pregnant woman under 20 has six kids.



Why? Completely outside your experience and conceptions of rational behavior? That stuff happens. There are Fertile Myrtle types too dumb to use birth control.

Granted, being pregnant with number 7 at age 20 indicates a very early start, but I've encountered a mother of 8 who was 24 when somebody finally talked her into getting an abortion, and her tubes tied. It's also a lot easier to get started on the next one, when Family Services took the last newborn away immediately for being born with drugs it's system.




tazzygirl -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/12/2012 6:52:53 PM)

96 months of being pregnant or between time... (given full term pregnancies and 6 weeks between before becoming pregnant again)...

20 - 8 = 12. She would have had to have the first one at that age.

I can buy the 8 at 24 years.....

Meh.... what do I know...




TheHeretic -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/12/2012 7:25:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

They're hypocrites as well. Did I ever say they werent?


I think this is worth it's own thread, Hillwilliam.




And here it is, just in case you missed it

http://www.collarchat.com/m_4322283/tm.htm




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