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Aswad -> RE: Welfare scrounging - about as low as it gets (12/13/2012 11:22:56 AM)
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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Pulling your children out of a learn-to-read program so you don't fuck up the welfare isn't "taking advantage," Erie.
Sounds like common sense. If the kids won't have a roof over their head, or food on the table, it doesn't matter much if they can read and write. Of course, it strikes me as ludicrous to require parents to be the only ones to invest in children that will be supporting the population and building our futures in the first place.
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It ought to be grounds for removing those children from the home.
In cases where the family can get by without what they'd otherwise lose, certainly.
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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Socialism isn't this generous or stupid with money, a socialist government would put the money into the education system to improve it.
Bullshit. I live in a socialist country, and the only time our education system improves, is on the rare occasion that the non-socialist parties get their hands on it. The socialists have managed to bring it to an all time low, to the extent that after their last term, we've ended up with worse education levels than the USA(!). Same thing with research, and (ironically) welfare. Finland killed off most of its socialists during the civil war, way back when, and are one of the best countries in the world with regard to education, and doing quite well as far as research goes; no idea how they're doing with welfare, save that they're miles ahead of the US, of course.
In my experience, the people looking out for their own interests are usually good news, because my best interests tend to align with their best interests, while the ones looking out for others tend to have an idea of my best interests that doesn't align with what I consider to be my best interests and thus just make things more difficult with the occasional and incidental benefits as mere side effects of what they're doing.
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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
That punishes the kids, though - it wasn't their fault they got born.
It doesn't punish them. It just doesn't help them. The parents are the ones that landed them in a fucked up situation to begin with. Sad fact of life: if one is born to shitty parents, one is all kinds of screwed, regardless. There's some that turn out great, but as far as I can tell, those are the ones that would've turned out truly excellent if they had good parents. In essence, helping those kids also means enabling shitty parents, which is detrimental to everyone in the long run.
That said, I'm not convinced capping the benefits is going to be a good choice, either, for the simple reason that it doesn't seem to stop those parents (they're willing to subject children to any standard of living, apparently), and that this means those children then end up being even more expensive through crime and so forth.
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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
If you are a druggie coming out of rehab, or a crook coming out of prison, you can get loads of help through many various agencies and government departments.
Excellent!
Let's all hope they keep that in place; the alternative would be exceedingly expensive.
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But, if you are a 'normal' person struggling to find a job or a home, you are on your own; no help whatsoever. We were told by the housing department that we could sleep in a shop doorway even though we are both disabled. The 'system' doesn't treat us any differently to a 'normal' person.
See, now, here's an area where some improvements would be in order.
In Norway, if a citizen lacks housing, the state must provide some form of housing within 72 hours, even if that means checking you in at a hotel and them paying through the nose for it. Of course, conversely, you can't legally be without a (registered) permanent residence, even should you want to be (e.g. you can't legally live on a boat here), which I think is rather sick.
Of course, sometimes, shitheads will do something they're not supposed to, and then you may be screwed, if there isn't something in place to curb the beurocrats (or if you lack the means to pursue whatever is in place, which is often the case here).
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ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Shakes head in dismay. You must live in another UK than me. Its bullshit to suggest the local housing deprtment would even suggest such a thing.
In all fairness, Politesub, it isn't exactly unheard of for some beurocrats to do crazy things, or for corner cases to exist where people end up between chairs, so to speak. I see this all the time in Norway, incidentally, despite the fact that the law technically provides for up to six years in prison for beurocrats that abuse or mishandle their position in such a way (I've never seen anyone get more than a slap on the wrist, though, except when the person suffering at the beurocrat's hands happens to have enough energy left to really pursue the matter, in which case I've seen people lose their jobs over it, at least).
And, yes, before I saw it myself, my response would've been as yours is.
How things should work isn't always how they do work, particularly if the system permits rotten apples to stay in the basket.
IWYW,
— Aswad.
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