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RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 5:56:38 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Make no mistake about it Ken,I feel we currently have enough handguns floating around this very flawed country.
I am all for a handgun ban....but I want to be clear....handguns.
If one isn't careful ,one risks being called "unreasonable"( by people who think we should do nothing ,despite the carnage,it's almost Kafkaesque)

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 5:58:52 PM   
MarieDomina


Posts: 68
Joined: 8/20/2010
Status: offline 		Why no one is linking these mass shooting to medication is beyond My comprehension!! There is a common denominator here and guns is NOT IT!! This country has lost their ability to critically think!! Brain dead and shuffling along like sheeple! Wake the fuck up!! Really!! Seriously!! Fight the RIGHT BATTLES!! For the love of God!! Stop fighting the wrong battles. Get the hell out of your boxes and start thinking outside of them!!

< Message edited by MarieDomina -- 12/15/2012 5:59:18 PM >

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“So long as man remains free he strives for nothing so incessantly and painfully as to find someone to worship”
~Fyodor Dostoyevsky

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 5:58:58 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You admitted it yourself. You damn near blew yourself up making Mercury Fulminate.Which is not stable enough to safely transport or use as anything besides an initiator. I'm not sure how you moved the stuff, aborbed into filter paper?, but a single good bump could have detonated the stuff.

Moved it wet, dried it on site.

Do you have any idea how lucky you were?

quote:

quote:

There is a very good reason that terrorists never use the stuff, depsite the fact it is really pretty easy to make. It is far too unstable to transport enough of it to be useful except as a detonator explosive for something more stable.

Yes. On this single point you are 100% correct. Using mercury fulminate as a terrorist weapon is highly unlikely.

The purpose of venturing into tales of my youthful stupidity was to contradict your claim that "No amateur getting instructions of the web could produce such high explosives." They can, and they do. If I could do what I did with limited funds, info, clue and a damn lot of luck; what do you think an chem major with a bankroll and a clean lab could accomplish?

ok. If you really want to yu could make some sorts of HE but the fact remains it is much more likely to blow up the amateur than it is anything else.

As to the putative well funded chem major with a good lab, HE is the least of your worries if dealing with that sort. Mustard gas is pretty trivial to make if you have advanced chemical knowledge and a good lab.

But my point in all this was madmen who want to kill buildings full of people will have a much harder time of it if all semi automatic guns and all handguns are banned. One school bombing in 1927 not withstanding.

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Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:02:01 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Make no mistake about it Ken,I feel we currently have enough handguns floating around this very flawed country.
I am all for a handgun ban....but I want to be clear....handguns.
If one isn't careful ,one risks being called "unreasonable"( by people who think we should do nothing ,despite the carnage,it's almost Kafkaesque)

I'm very reasonable on this. I own firearms. I hunt and have known to spend time at ranges and skeet shoots.

I can find no valid reason for the private ownership of handguns or the semi automatic removeable magazine fed weapon that resulted in the carnage yesterday.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:02:17 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I don't much like to do more than dip a toe into the subject we've hit at the moment, but if your goal is to kill a lot of people, explosives are far from the only way to do it.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:06:07 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarieDomina

Why no one is linking these mass shooting to medication is beyond My comprehension!! There is a common denominator here and guns is NOT IT!! This country has lost their ability to critically think!! Brain dead and shuffling along like sheeple! Wake the fuck up!! Really!! Seriously!! Fight the RIGHT BATTLES!! For the love of God!! Stop fighting the wrong battles. Get the hell out of your boxes and start thinking outside of them!!

What medication could have stopped this from happening? The young man in question does not appear to have had any diagnosis calling for medication.

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Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:13:15 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Do you have any idea how lucky you were?

No. No idea at all. Do tell.

quote:

ok. If you really want to yu could make some sorts of HE but the fact remains it is much more likely to blow up the amateur than it is anything else.

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? There's no way to judge the likelihood of who gets blown up.

quote:

As to the putative well funded chem major with a good lab, HE is the least of your worries if dealing with that sort. Mustard gas is pretty trivial to make if you have advanced chemical knowledge and a good lab.

Not necessarily germane to the discussion at hand, but true.

quote:

But my point in all this was madmen who want to kill buildings full of people will have a much harder time of it if all semi automatic guns and all handguns are banned.

No, your point was "No amateur getting instructions of the web could produce such high explosives" which is what I addressed.

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(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:15:15 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Consider this Lanza took the weapons, and presumably the ammunition and magazines, from his mother who used the 2 handguns and the bushmaster assault rifle for target shooting. If she had instead owned a bolt action .22 there is no way the son could have killed all those children and it would not have detracted from her ability to to go to a range and put holes in paper targets.

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Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:16:44 PM   
MarieDomina


Posts: 68
Joined: 8/20/2010
Status: offline 		I am in NO WAY stating that medication could of stopped this from happening. What I am saying is that there should be a look into it being the common denominator of these mass shootings. That is in NO WAY stating it could stop it from happening. In fact it is saying the polar and direct OPPOSITE. If you cannot understand that nor grasp the concept of it then you are definitely part of the problem and have no clue in regard to solutions. Real solutions!

Let Me explain further. Medication alter the chemistry of your brain. Your brain controls your entire body. Right down to the central nervous system. Which is critical to your functioning as a human being. Medications are created in laboratories. Now put on your critical thinking cap for "one" second. What better way to test out your drugs and make money at the same time? Experiment on society and your children. Tell society that they are inflicted with a whole host of ills that require these "new" medications for these "new" disorders. Lab rats. Right under your very nose. So what do you do? You blame guns! Totally bypassing the common denominator. Medication!

Now, if you can't grasp that concept then you are part of the problem and the children will continue to suffer altered brain chemistry because the adults are not protecting them as they should. The adults are shuffling along like sheeple and told how to think, when to think, what to give their children, etc.

There is a method madness going on here and I see it. Do you? Probably not. As long as you don't and continue to fight the wrong causes you will continue to see these kind of murders. Plain and quite simple. So simple and plain its right under your nose but you are too busy looking for the boogey man.

_____________________________

“So long as man remains free he strives for nothing so incessantly and painfully as to find someone to worship”
~Fyodor Dostoyevsky

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:19:12 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		I think you might need to go get some medication.

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to MarieDomina)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:21:15 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I think you might need to go get some medication.

This

BTW how are you and your school  doing?

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:22:46 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I think you might need to go get some medication.


Indeed. Great minds and all that.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:26:13 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		We have spent a lot of time today talking on the phone and on Facebook. Crying. Hoping we could save our babies if something like this happened. Our principal wrote a very nice letter to us all, and the super of schools has emailed us all, both giving us a cyber hug, and giving us advice on what to say to parents, because we will be getting all kinds of questions on security.

Honestly, I am in a fog from this. Nothing has ever hit me in the gut this bad, except the loss of family members.

We have to work 4 days this week, before the Christmas break. I think it is going to be 4 days of much hugging and love, I just hope I can hug my babies and not cry.



_____________________________

yep

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Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:26:17 PM   
MarieDomina


Posts: 68
Joined: 8/20/2010
Status: offline 		Also from what I understand the young man had mental health issues. I am sure he was medicated at some point of his life. Take a look at all these mass shooting killers. Was medication any part of their life? Any? I am quite sure it was. As a society we should be looking in that direction. If you are going to rally against guns rally against medications your children are taking as well. Demand that something be done about how this country has become a medicated society. You can spin it whichever way you want but the Elephant will STILL BE IN THE ROOM.

I know a lot of you will state that they went off and killed because they were "off" their medications. I am here to tell you that that is a sheeples way of thinking. Understand altered brain chemistry and lab creating medication to do such and then you will connect the dots.

Unfortunately this is a society of the quick cure so the connection will never be made.


Have a good night but I know one thing, My child was never given medications even when the doctors insisted upon it.. After I saw how it was altering how his brain worked and how he said it made him feel. From that day forth he never got another no matter what they said and believe Me they insisted. There is a connection between violence, your children, and their meds.

Don't believe Me? Just sit back and wait for the next murders and pray it doesn't directly hit you!

_____________________________

“So long as man remains free he strives for nothing so incessantly and painfully as to find someone to worship”
~Fyodor Dostoyevsky

(in reply to MarieDomina)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:26:38 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It was 950kg not 950 lbs. and it took a large van to move.


My mistake. I'm a metric guy, and forgot to convert.

quote:

And it only killed 8 people and did a small amount of damage.


The building was just about empty, heavily reinforced, and the van was parked in the wrong spot.

He had prepared a second bomb of the same size, and had material for four more.

Injuries were close to a thousand, a few hundred severely.

Hardly a stick of dynamite.

quote:

A van full of HE and the neighboring buildings would have been destroyed with a body count in at least the hundreds.


Agreed. I've said in the past he was a rank amateur. This doesn't change the fact that he actually did serious damage with it, or that he could've done more if he hadn't been in a rush. Had he driven it into a crowded area, the death toll would also have been in the hundreds, but he chose a target with a low kill count, aiming to kill fourteen or so people, the point where a massacre tends to snowball in the media. Had he doubled the amount of booster, the building would've been rubble.

And he did this with no prior experience, in a hurry, etc., so again, in this day and age, anyone can do that much.

Anyone patient or smart can do far, far more.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:28:03 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarieDomina

Why no one is linking these mass shooting to medication is beyond My comprehension!!


Was he medicated?

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to MarieDomina)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:29:17 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

There is a connection between violence, your children, and their meds.


I am really too tired to even address the ignorance that that sentence is full of, but I gotta at least comment that it is full of ignorance.

So, your ignorance is showing.

Have a nice night.

_____________________________

yep

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Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:29:24 PM   
MarieDomina


Posts: 68
Joined: 8/20/2010
Status: offline 		Better yet, give some to "your" children and while you're doing that, make sure you fight for the right to have assault rifles in your home. Make sure you don't get them angry and walk around on eggshells. You'll sleep nice and sound at night.

SMH...Ignorance is actually not bliss you know. Well, perhaps for you and those like you.

_____________________________

“So long as man remains free he strives for nothing so incessantly and painfully as to find someone to worship”
~Fyodor Dostoyevsky

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:29:50 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarieDomina

Why no one is linking these mass shooting to medication is beyond My comprehension!! There is a common denominator here and guns is NOT IT!! This country has lost their ability to critically think!! Brain dead and shuffling along like sheeple! Wake the fuck up!! Really!! Seriously!! Fight the RIGHT BATTLES!! For the love of God!! Stop fighting the wrong battles. Get the hell out of your boxes and start thinking outside of them!!

"There is a common denominator here and guns is NOT IT!!"

Given the above sentence I am quite sure there is a hell of a lot that is beyond your comprehension .
I think what I choose to get upset about,the battles I choose to take on are just the right fit for me.
Given that you believe that guns are the incorrect subject when discussing mass shootings,I can't be bothered to be concerned about what you think.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to MarieDomina)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 6:30:33 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

But my point in all this was madmen who want to kill buildings full of people will have a much harder time of it if all semi automatic guns and all handguns are banned. One school bombing in 1927 not withstanding.


Or such people can download ABB's manifesto, which details how he made his bomb.

Then they can just pick a time when most people are actually in the building.

Military estimates are hundreds dead if it went off during business hours.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 200
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