RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other.

RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:22:08 AM)
quote: No background checks required for sales at most gun shows, either. How convenient. I'm sure that's a deep dark secret that no gun owners know about, nor even criminals know about. Shhhhh ... Those are also considered "private sales". Something I have been bitching about for a while now.

tazzygirl -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:24:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I agree, LaT. Except I know many ex-military who enjoy shooting those guns at ranges. Many more who are just gun enthusiasts. I could see having them stored in a safer location than the home. Personally, I think the rights of innocents trump ANY person's enjoyment of shooting dick extension toys. Im not disagreeing with you. I can just see safer methods of storage, thus restricting access to those who have other plans. Most of the weapons used in recent events were obtained legally by someone.

thishereboi -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:24:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk Great, so you are for more murders...Nice to see where you stand where did I say that? Do you actually read someones post before you reply or do you just blurt out the first thing that pops into your head? Never mind, I already know the answer to that. Do you always defend mass murderers? Oh yeah, you do. Again, where did I defend the guy. You are just proving my point every time you post.

Yachtie -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:24:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Why do you assume I am pointing to one weapon? Tazzy, and I quote myself... like a semi-auto AR/15 for instance Most people would comprehend that I'm just using an example.

thishereboi -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:25:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I agree, LaT. Except I know many ex-military who enjoy shooting those guns at ranges. Many more who are just gun enthusiasts. I could see having them stored in a safer location than the home. Personally, I think the rights of innocents trump ANY person's enjoyment of shooting dick extension toys. Im not disagreeing with you. I can just see safer methods of storage, thus restricting access to those who have other plans. Most of the weapons used in recent events were obtained legally by someone. Good point. In one of the threads it said that the mother knew her kid had problems. Why leave that kind of weaponry where he could get to it?

jlf1961 -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:26:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse An excerpt from an opinion piece by Charles Blow in the NYT this morning...it reflects my opinion 100%. As well as that of the former military person I live with. "An analysis published earlier this year by Mother Jones of the 61 mass shootings in America over the last 30 years found that: “Of the 139 guns possessed by the killers, more than three-quarters were obtained legally.” (The Oregon shooter stole his gun. The Connecticut shooter’s guns are reported to have been legally purchased in his mother’s name.) We must reinstate the assault weapons ban. Military-style guns belong in the hands of military personnel, and maybe police officers, but not in the hands of civilians. A vast majority of mass shootings in the last three decades involved assault weapons and semiautomatic handguns, according to Mother Jones. Even if you believe, as most Americans do, that the Second Amendment grants Americans the right to bear arms, one must also acknowledge the right of other Americans to not bear arms and be safe. Where are the voices for those who choose not to — or are not old enough to — own guns? Are the gunless to have no advocate? Will our politicians forever cower before the gun lobby?" Would you please research the facts about the assault weapon ban? It did not deter crime, it did not prevent crime, in fact it did nothing the people who proposed it said it would. Also, look at countries with strict gun control laws, I gave some examples. Bans do not work. And as I pointed out that I or any proficient shooter could accomplish the same thing with a revolver and a bunch of speed loaders. Want to ban those as well? Perhaps we should ban all modern weapons for civilian use, go back to cap and ball black powder fire arms. They have a slow reload rate, and one in particular had a nasty habit of becoming so fouled with powder residue after 12 rounds as to be completely inoperable. As for banning specific types of weapons for civilian ownership, ever heard of the black market? Why don't you look into the number of illegally sold military weapons? Its a lucrative business in the modern military. You might want to do some research on the Bath school disaster. A lot of kids killed, no gun used. I agree with reasonable and effective gun control laws. I would say that the majority of gun owners in this country agree with me. But you are reacting and wanting to prevent an abnormal occurrence, except for this year. Between April 1999 and 2011 there had been 28 mass shootings in the United States. That averaged just over two a year. A very small percentage of the total gun related crimes in the United States. Now look at 2012, there have been 16 mass shootings in this year alone. What makes 2012 different? I admit that something needs to be done, but as I pointed out, and the US Department of Justice research proved, a ban on specific weapons did not work when it was in place, so what makes you think it will work now?

Yachtie -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:26:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk Great, so you are for more murders...Nice to see where you stand Isn't abortion great?[:D] /snark

Edwynn -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:29:17 AM)
Oh, but you can't be serious, La Tigre. We eliminate lead from paint, then eliminated lead from gasoline, then Europe eliminated lead from soldering in electronics. But a proposal to eliminate lead from the lead shot in guns? Where are our rights ?!! Nanny state!

LaTigresse -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:31:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse An excerpt from an opinion piece by Charles Blow in the NYT this morning...it reflects my opinion 100%. As well as that of the former military person I live with. "An analysis published earlier this year by Mother Jones of the 61 mass shootings in America over the last 30 years found that: “Of the 139 guns possessed by the killers, more than three-quarters were obtained legally.” (The Oregon shooter stole his gun. The Connecticut shooter’s guns are reported to have been legally purchased in his mother’s name.) We must reinstate the assault weapons ban. Military-style guns belong in the hands of military personnel, and maybe police officers, but not in the hands of civilians. A vast majority of mass shootings in the last three decades involved assault weapons and semiautomatic handguns, according to Mother Jones. Even if you believe, as most Americans do, that the Second Amendment grants Americans the right to bear arms, one must also acknowledge the right of other Americans to not bear arms and be safe. Where are the voices for those who choose not to — or are not old enough to — own guns? Are the gunless to have no advocate? Will our politicians forever cower before the gun lobby?" Would you please research the facts about the assault weapon ban? It did not deter crime, it did not prevent crime, in fact it did nothing the people who proposed it said it would. Also, look at countries with strict gun control laws, I gave some examples. Bans do not work. And as I pointed out that I or any proficient shooter could accomplish the same thing with a revolver and a bunch of speed loaders. Want to ban those as well? Perhaps we should ban all modern weapons for civilian use, go back to cap and ball black powder fire arms. They have a slow reload rate, and one in particular had a nasty habit of becoming so fouled with powder residue after 12 rounds as to be completely inoperable. As for banning specific types of weapons for civilian ownership, ever heard of the black market? Why don't you look into the number of illegally sold military weapons? Its a lucrative business in the modern military. You might want to do some research on the Bath school disaster. A lot of kids killed, no gun used. I agree with reasonable and effective gun control laws. I would say that the majority of gun owners in this country agree with me. But you are reacting and wanting to prevent an abnormal occurrence, except for this year. Between April 1999 and 2011 there had been 28 mass shootings in the United States. That averaged just over two a year. A very small percentage of the total gun related crimes in the United States. Now look at 2012, there have been 16 mass shootings in this year alone. What makes 2012 different? I admit that something needs to be done, but as I pointed out, and the US Department of Justice research proved, a ban on specific weapons did not work when it was in place, so what makes you think it will work now? Yanno.......it can't fucking hurt. The reality is that....NO ONE NEEDS these weapons. They are simply false barriers to imagined fears. Or dick extending toys.

tazzygirl -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:31:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Why do you assume I am pointing to one weapon? Tazzy, and I quote myself... like a semi-auto AR/15 for instance Most people would comprehend that I'm just using an example. I think all semi's should be restricted. A glock is a semi. A sig is also a semi.

tazzygirl -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:33:13 AM)
quote: Good point. In one of the threads it said that the mother knew her kid had problems. Why leave that kind of weaponry where he could get to it? To me, if she did not, she was not a responsible gun owner. However, we dont know that she didnt. She could have had them under lock and key.

LaTigresse -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:38:46 AM)
My boss, an avid gun owner, 2nd amendment fanatic. He thinks that because his guns are kept in a safe, they are. My boss, believes that, because he keeps the key with him, his guns are safe.....in the safe. My boss, likes to drink and talks about having 8-10 beers, on occasion, and passing out in his recliner. Most people I know, wouldn't wake up with a bomb explosion next to them at that point. My boss, like most humans, tends to sleep 6-8 hours a night. I sincerely doubt the key to that safe is under his sleeping ass. My boss, has a stepson that is a sociopath and knows that there are guns in the house. How safe really......are those guns in that safe?

Edwynn -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:40:01 AM)
Leaving effective gun control to individuals makes about as much sense as leaving financial regulation to the mega banks. Works out real well for society in both cases, no?

Owner59 -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:43:07 AM)
I believe the owners,by penalty of law.....should have their weapons under lock and key,so nutters can`t get them. The killer used the 1st victim`s guns....his mom. She owned them legally but the kid got at them,killed her and then went to the school to shoot her students.

tazzygirl -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:45:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse My boss, an avid gun owner, 2nd amendment fanatic. He thinks that because his guns are kept in a safe, they are. My boss, believes that, because he keeps the key with him, his guns are safe.....in the safe. My boss, likes to drink and talks about having 8-10 beers, on occasion, and passing out in his recliner. Most people I know, wouldn't wake up with a bomb explosion next to them at that point. My boss, like most humans, tends to sleep 6-8 hours a night. I sincerely doubt the key to that safe is under his sleeping ass. My boss, has a stepson that is a sociopath and knows that there are guns in the house. How safe really......are those guns in that safe? Most just leave them out in the open, so to speak. Im not saying she was extremely responsible for having them in the home. I dont like semi's at all. My idea would be a requirement for them to be kept locked at a shooting range. If all the people claiming they want them for target practice, what better place to keep them but where you practice at?

Edwynn -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:46:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 The killer used the 1st victim`s guns....his mom. She owned them legally but the kid got at them,killed her and then went to the school to shoot her students. Self protection at its finest. \

jlf1961 -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:47:30 AM)
DomYngBlk, do the research yourself. Mexico is not a bullshit example. Look at the GAO report on weapons confiscated from the cartels and the number of weapons purchased in the US. As for me saying to the survivors, "Tough, shit happens." that is bullshit, and if you actually considered the problem you would grasp the impossibility of eliminating guns in the US or anywhere else for that matter. I have noticed you are great with personal attacks but lacking in any constructive ideas to solve a problem. You want a constructive solution to solve the problem? I will give you one, and this is not just taking into consideration one lone, unstable individual pulling something like this incident, it will cover the person who is intelligent, sane, determined to make a statement and die in the process. Congress has been putting out report after report on the problems with security at "soft" targets. You know what a soft target is? I will tell you, malls, schools, theaters, sporting venues, night clubs, arenas, concert halls, just about anywhere that a large number of people can be found and security sucks. What are you going to do if the next time something like this happens and it is not an American citizen with a legally purchased firearm? Who you going to blame then, the pro fun people? Congressional reports have repeatedly proven that bans do not work, the do not deter crime, do not prevent crime, they achieve nothing but costing money to enforce the ban. There are countries around the world where it is illegal to own any kind of firearm. It does not stop gun related crime in those countries, what makes you think a complete ban of all firearms would be different here? Do you actually think that banning and confiscating every legally owned gun in the US is going to solve anything? It wont. It has not worked in any other country that has implemented such restrictions. For that matter, I am anti illegal drug. They are all, with certain exceptions, since the recent elections, illegal to buy, sell or use. How has the ban on the importation of Cocaine and Heroin working out? How has the ban on making and selling Meth, x, or any of the other dozen or so homemade illegal drugs going? When you come up with a solution for that problem that is 100% effective, consider this, it is a lot easier to smuggle large numbers of firearms than it is to smuggle drugs.

tazzygirl -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:47:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 I believe the owners,by penalty of law.....should have their weapons under lock and key,so nutters can`t get them. The killer used the 1st victim`s guns....his mom. She owned them legally but the kid got at them,killed her and then went to the school to shoot her students. Im going to withhold comment on that until we know exactly how he got those guns. It could be he beat her until she gave them up. Or, if they were in a glass case, a key would not have stopped him. Or it couold be that she kept one out for protection, he killed her, and got the key for the rest. We simply dont know yet.

Owner59 -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:50:25 AM)
I`m ok with folks having weapons but they have to be made aware of the down sides too. Just a week ago,a fella in Pennsylvania killed his own son accidentally when his pistol went off as he put it in the center console. The police are treating this as an accident but it`s no less a gun tragedy because their was a crime or insanity involved.

LaTigresse -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:50:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse My boss, an avid gun owner, 2nd amendment fanatic. He thinks that because his guns are kept in a safe, they are. My boss, believes that, because he keeps the key with him, his guns are safe.....in the safe. My boss, likes to drink and talks about having 8-10 beers, on occasion, and passing out in his recliner. Most people I know, wouldn't wake up with a bomb explosion next to them at that point. My boss, like most humans, tends to sleep 6-8 hours a night. I sincerely doubt the key to that safe is under his sleeping ass. My boss, has a stepson that is a sociopath and knows that there are guns in the house. How safe really......are those guns in that safe? Most just leave them out in the open, so to speak. Im not saying she was extremely responsible for having them in the home. I dont like semi's at all. My idea would be a requirement for them to be kept locked at a shooting range. If all the people claiming they want them for target practice, what better place to keep them but where you practice at? I read you, and if that is the best our government can come up with then I would accept it. What I will not continue to accept is for them to be 'the gun owners' responsibility, in their home. GD was in a home a couple of weeks ago. The guy was an avid gun collector. His collection filled an average size room in the house. The guy felt that, because he kept the door locked, the guns and other toys, were stored safely. An average lock, a window with a drawn curtain. No other safety measures. His wife runs a daycare in the same house. It is appalling.

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