RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other.

RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (Full Version)

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Kirata -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:52:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse NO ONE NEEDS these weapons. They are simply false barriers to imagined fears. Or dick extending toys. A weapon is far from being an "imaginary" barrier in a life event like rape or assault. And when it comes to ego toys, the greatest ego toy of all is the belief that nothing bad could ever happen to anyone as wonderful as oneself. K.

Owner59 -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:54:29 AM)
And the folks who get shot by their own guns.....like in this case....professor?

LaTigresse -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:54:34 AM)
But that is where you, and many that share your apparent mindset are at fault. It has nothing AT ALL to do with me feeling that nothing is going to happen to me. NOTHING In fact, quite the opposite. When the facts are that over 3/4 of the guns used in shootings like the most recent were legally purchased by the shooters.......what we feel is a very real fear. Not just for ourselves but for those we love.

tazzygirl -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 8:56:36 AM)
Wow. Incredible. No, I would not consider that a responsible gun owner. The lock would keep the kids out. The lock would not stop someone intent upon stealing those weapons. Personally, I would love to see a requirement that guns be kept within a safe, no key, no glass door. Something like this... http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/38956?productId=619516&subrnd=0&qs=3016887_pmd_google_pla If someone can afford multiple guns, they should be required to keep them safe and secure.

LaTigresse -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:00:36 AM)
But, a safe is only as safe as the key to that safe is. Hence my post about my boss. How many people have joked about sneaking the keys to the family car after mom and dad were sleeping?

tazzygirl -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:05:12 AM)
Which is why I said no key.... There are electronic locks and combination locks, tumblers, ect. Not full proof by any means... but much harder for a kid intent on showing people he wont be bossed around any more to get the guns he wants to use to prove that point.

LaTigresse -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:06:39 AM)
Tazzy, I've been thinking and I actually like the idea you had about a separate location. IF people want to own guns, other than those used for hunting deer, pheasant, etc...then the solution for them to be able to have them is to build a facility, have a membership. Make it all cool to belong if that is their thing. Each member has their own storage locker they pay for. It is secure according to a federally established building code. Only paying members can enter, shoot their weapons to their heart's content. BUT, they MUST keep their weapons there, in the secured building in their secured locker. No one that isn't a member is allowed in and no weapons are ever allowed out. They get to keep their toys and play with them.

Edwynn -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:07:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse NO ONE NEEDS these weapons. They are simply false barriers to imagined fears. Or dick extending toys. A weapon is far from being an "imaginary" barrier in a life event like rape or assault. And when it comes to ego toys, the greatest ego toy of all is the belief that nothing bad could ever happen to anyone as wonderful as oneself. K. She didn't say that the weapons were imaginary, only that some among the owners of such imagine fears extending beyond rational expectations. One would think that an English major could have understood the distinction. The fact that such a high percentage of shootings are accidental, and those shootings occurring in the home, somewhat negates the self protection argument. More of a Darwinist argument, if we're to be honest about it.

jlf1961 -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:07:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Yanno.......it can't fucking hurt. The reality is that....NO ONE NEEDS these weapons. They are simply false barriers to imagined fears. Or dick extending toys. Bans dont work, complete bans of ALL firearms in various countries dont work, the weapons are still there in large numbers. Why spend billions on a program that has no hope of accomplishing anything? I am not pro legalizing drugs, with the exception of pot, but let me give you an example and maybe you might see my point. The Federal and state governments spend Billions to keep cocaine and heroin out of the US. There are tens of thousands of men and women with only one job, stopping cocaine and heroin from getting into the country. How many Americans buy cocaine and heroin every day? zero or hundreds of thousands? Now lets look at designer drugs like meth and ecstasy. When you add up all the federal, state, county and city police officers assigned to narcotics, you could probably come up with around 50 or sixty thousand, maybe more. Now, how many Americans bought either of those two drugs yesterday? Zero or thousands? Now, let me tell you how easy it would be for me to get a semi automatic pistol or an AK47 in the US if they were banned. Download the technical specs and technical drawings of the desired weapon and take them to a local machine shop that dont ask questions. $500 later in labor and bar stock, I have all the parts, takes a few hours. Take the metal parts home and get to work in my wood shop to shape the stock and butt of the weapon, that takes me about an hour and depending on the wood, costs about 50 bucks. Assembling the weapon takes about 20 minutes. Now you might ask about ammo for the weapon. No problem, there are a lot of nonbanned sporting arms imported from former warsaw pact countries using the same ammo. Magazines, well back to the machine shop to have a ten or twenty of them stamped out of sheet metal, maybe another 100 dollars. The same is true for a semi automatic pistol. By the way, there are blacksmiths all over Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Arab countries, India, southeast Asia making fully functional AK47's out of scrap car parts. Banning the weapons only makes them harder to get, not impossible, and considering the tax free income for making them locally if they were banned, I can guarantee you that a week after the ban goes into effect and every one of them is confiscated by the authorities, 10 thousand will be on the streets.

mnottertail -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:08:22 AM)
Something sort of like that is done in Norway, maybe al-Aswad will tell you about it, he is expert in that business.

LaTigresse -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:12:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Something sort of like that is done in Norway, maybe al-Aswad will tell you about it, he is expert in that business. I would be very interested to learn more about that.

jlf1961 -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:13:38 AM)
I agree with the keypad lock gun safe. In fact that is what I have. I do however have a few weapons on open display, however they are pretty useless if you want to use em to commit a crime, not totally useless, but close enough. They are black powder cap and ball muzzle loader replicas and a replica revolutionary war flintlock.

tazzygirl -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:17:11 AM)
There are ways to make those types of guns pretty useless for firing. Nor would they be the kind a kid is likely to grab to make a huge bang before going out in style, so to speak.

TheGorenSociety -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:17:53 AM)
Every time someone uses a weapon of any sort to injure or kill innocents it is sense lees to everyone except the perpetrator who committed the offense. YOU CAN NOT FIX STUPID. YOU CAN NOT LEGISLATE IT OUT OF EXISTENCE EITHER NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TRY. Here are some interesting facts for ya. The drug cartels have for years been using stolen weapons from,wait for it, not registered weapon owners, but STOLEN MILITARY ARSENALS OF THE VERY ARMIES MEANT TO PROTECT US.They do not need to buy weapons when they can easily use their own machine shops, which they have in several locations through out Mexico to produce what they cannot acquire. They also have bought weapons from places like Iraq, Pakistan ,Libya to name a few. It is well known among Intel agencies for years that Cartels are buying weapons from markets in Pakistan, Africa.. I can go into a open market in Africa or Pakistan and buy anything I want up to and including highly restrictive WMD with enough money. So unless you can wave your magic wand and remove the technology from the history books and from every part of mankind ,you are whining, barking, bitching about things that will never work. Lobotomize mankind in general to be notihng more then empty shells or walking zombies. Just like it is ludicrous to think the Iranians and others will stop at just making weapon's grade fuel for peaceful energy generation and existence. See how well that is working out for mankind. I always hear the righteous ones dictate how bad guns are. Their only solution is to get rid of the very thing they require to enforce the solution they seek.More damage has been done to society by drugs,booze,smoking,other bad habits, then all the guns used combined, in the commission of a crime by criminals. The only solution is to be the one who is their at that moment and dispatch the perpetrator. More gun control does not stop the criminal or those hell bent on doing innocents harm, just makes them more intent to find a way around it, even if they have to use some other means to commit the offense. I do not need a gun, assault or otherwise, if I am going to commit a crime or go on a insane,stupid act of terrorism. In fact, most bad guys choose other more affective methods of destruction then a one on one situation. Do you honestly think for a second that a criminal gives a damn about getting, holding carrying a legal weapon to commit a crime against innocent civilians?Come on, stop the delusional stupidity,they know full well if they get caught they will just serve more time on top of what ever stupid crime they are going to commit.They just do not care. I will take my chances, keeping those I care about safe from those who want to do harm to them by using my freedom which I fought so hard to keep.And along the way maybe stop someone else from killing other innocents.Gentlemen prepare to defend yourselves!!

tazzygirl -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:22:57 AM)
To me, its a perfect solution. Guns of the type they wish to buy must be sent directly to one of these locations, not to a home or business. All use and access are monitored. And think of the boom for the gun world. Want to get a grenade launcher? Sure. Got a secure locker facility willing to accept it? They would also have to be a firing range, as guns would not be allowed to leave the facility. Want to move? The facilities arrange transfers of all weapons within their facility. Its not really that hard to come up with at least a workable proposal. I really hate the idea of preventing people from doing an activity that harms no one, and many really enjoy. We just have to come up with more inventive ways to ensure that safety is paramount.

TheGorenSociety -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:29:58 AM)
Safes are a minor inconvenience these days for criminals they just steal the whole damn thing instead. How do you think that is going to work when criminals, organized crime now targets our very own military armories or infiltrate the same to get access to the weapons you have stored their.

jlf1961 -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:32:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl To me, its a perfect solution. Guns of the type they wish to buy must be sent directly to one of these locations, not to a home or business. All use and access are monitored. And think of the boom for the gun world. Want to get a grenade launcher? Sure. Got a secure locker facility willing to accept it? They would also have to be a firing range, as guns would not be allowed to leave the facility. Want to move? The facilities arrange transfers of all weapons within their facility. Its not really that hard to come up with at least a workable proposal. I really hate the idea of preventing people from doing an activity that harms no one, and many really enjoy. We just have to come up with more inventive ways to ensure that safety is paramount. Tazzy there are countries that have just that kind of gun ownership laws. Sounds real good in theory. Works real good when dealing with gun owners that want to legally own a gun. Hunting clubs are wonderful Institutions. Large area of un populated land, just the hunters and the game animals. Membership dues are not too bad, $300 to $1500 year. Now mind if I ask you a question? I live in the country, own a couple of horses, a few head of cows, some goats, a llama and a donkey. There is an unknown predator killing my livestock. What do you suggest I do about it?

tazzygirl -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:45:40 AM)
quote: Now mind if I ask you a question? I live in the country, own a couple of horses, a few head of cows, some goats, a llama and a donkey. There is an unknown predator killing my livestock. What do you suggest I do about it? A shotgun wont solve your problem? Does it have to be a semi or automatic? Dont mistake what I am saying here. I am not talking about restricting all guns to secure lockers. I am speaking of the semi's and the full auto's. No one should lose access to target practice with their favorite weapon, within reason, simply because of a few nut cases. But, the gun owner also has to be responsible. For all other weapons, a safe at home, lock them up. No one needs dozens of guns lying around.

came4U -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:49:38 AM)
I am exhausted, mentally and physically (from this topic, the fatalities and just plain lack of sleep), tried to sleep, eat, can't. I had planned on coming back to attack tazz's words about gun ownership, death by such means etc...vs her dozens of posts protecting, advocating legally and even employment within the field of abortion, and aftercare. I thought I had so much to say about how someone could discuss killing something as little as 9 weeks old because it isn't 'human' by her definition yet grumble about gun ownership as being a bad thing. Then I thought... but what is human?? We just can't and I doubt we will ever know, will we? Such humility, in death (at any size). Disgraceful death, unnecessary, of the innocent. It all comes down to the topic at hand--CONTROL. One side has nothing but words, while another has only weapons--which will end which??? It is the constant need for control of the many by the few, the many being pawns of paranoia for the few and one has to wonder when the ones who choose for others to stop being immoral--stop being immoral themselves??? Weapons of mass destruction, a firepoker, a gun, a rowboat oar.... or a skipping rope---Does it really matter what the hell the means of death is but instead the measure? A pill, a hook, a gun or a head in bucket of water? Why does one advocate that death is 'logical and defensible' in one sense (acts of war, abortion, car accident, etc) yet in another they are in absolute resolution that one of the other means is unjust? Simply put, we are all neanderthals and should really not pretend to be so evolved, enlightened, just, kind and brilliant when we are throwing (even metaphorical) stones at one another. If God was described as giving man the rights to have a 'confounded language' that is what it meant. We are not able, nor adept enough to handle anything further. Seriously, if we cannot handle fighting in words without losing it, how can we be expected to even assume we are ready for a bone? How can a person claim to be 'good' or have rights of one group that excludes the rights of another's right to live, be free or be safe/secure and happy? I don't know, but I would think instead of one person trying to be right, and others being wrong, why don't we all go back to bangin' on some bones an think about it for a while cuz everyone is an idiot until all deaths go back to being of natural causes. pfttt. This is all just too sad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM6OIlreneA

tazzygirl -> RE: Gun Control and mass murder, one does not eliminate the other. (12/15/2012 9:55:30 AM)
quote: I had planned on coming back to attack tazz's words about gun ownership, death by such means etc...vs her dozens of posts protecting, advocating legally and even employment within the field of abortion, and aftercare. I thought I had so much to say about how someone could discuss killing something as little as 9 weeks old because it isn't 'human' by her definition yet grumble about gun ownership as being a bad thing. Then I thought... lol.. well.. dear... your assumption is way off the mark. Im not "grumbling" about gun ownership. Its irresponsible gun ownership I am grumbling about. And I really dont think you want to take me on about abortion issues.

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