quote:

Instead of mindlessly blaming rap music and other artifacts, (as has already been done here) or ideologies (as has already been done here) and all the other 'usual suspects', how about just this once stick to rational analysis, science, medicine? Not cherry picked articles to tear down strawmen, but an objective look at the problem?

If people are so tired of these outcomes, then why do they run in the same predictable circles every time, and expect different results?

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I simply asked for a rational discourse on the scientific and medical reasons behind the actual number of deaths each year, worldwide.

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ORIGINAL: thezeppo

What is the correct reaction to these deaths then, if not advocating for greater gun control?

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I am posting it to everyone that thinks controlling or banning guns is going to prevent mass murder.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I am posting it to everyone that thinks controlling or banning guns is going to prevent mass murder.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I am posting it to everyone that thinks controlling or banning guns is going to prevent mass murder.

You don't come across many mass murders that don't involve guns or bombs and since bombs are banned.........

Think about it.

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ORIGINAL: Aswad

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ORIGINAL: thezeppo

What is the correct reaction to these deaths then, if not advocating for greater gun control?

The correct reaction?

Grief, man, good old fashioned grief.

I would think that one should be a no-brainer, really.

And if you allow that emotion the play it deserves in the aftermath of such events, then you should be in no frame of mind to legislate one way or the other until it has been allowed to play out, at which point you should again be responsible enough to remember that legislation should not be a reaction. Putting something on the agenda for debate as a reaction, sure, but the actual legislating should be done as the result of careful deliberation and reflection, not in response to any one event. That, too, strikes me as a no-brainer.

If the only way you can get something done in politics is by getting people too emotional to think straight, it's time to throw in the towel, because good solutions don't originate with emotion, but logic, as evidenced by all too many deaths caused precisely by people acting in an overly emotional state when they should know better.

Note that this isn't a position on gun control.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

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ORIGINAL: thezeppo

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Thanks for proving my point, including the Freudian slip in the first sentence. You are using these deaths (and the thousands of others that occur every year) as an excuse for 'othering'

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I don't know about anyone else that shares my opinion......but I know that the two people that live in this house are by far 'tap dancing'.

WE are looking at, our grand children, nieces, nephews, friend's children, etc etc etc......and knowing that it could have easily been them. Fuck the rights of those that need semi automatic or automatic weapons as mental barriers for their own crazy fears and/or extensions of their dicks.

What about the rights of the rest of us???

What is the correct reaction to these deaths then, if not advocating for greater gun control?

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I have,and always will be very vocal about how I feel about guns,and the pervasive "gun culture" in this country.
Well now we have little children to bury in Newton Conn. and I have had it.
In my opinion anyone who has ever argued a pro gun position,anyone who has ever taken a stance against reasonable gun control legislation,anyone who has ever used the bullshit "slippery slope" argument has blood on their hands.
The blood of children.
Now many of you are going to blast me for this ,I just might lose some "friends" here for posting this.
I don't fucking care,we in this country have for far too long embraced the mayhem,we have suffered the tragedy's and we have buried the dead
All at the alter of a few words written 200 years ago.
It's time for the madness to stop,actually way past time.
These were legally held guns in Newton.
A teacher,an elderly woman thought she needed to own three weapons one of them a semi-automatic assault rifle?
Is she who the NRA is referring to when they talk about "responsible gun owners"?
Is she the poster child for the right to bear arms ?
Well she is dead today and we can't ask her why she needed such weapons.....she is dead as a result of owning such weapons...and 20 little children are dead because she owned,legally,such weapons.
Now all of you pro gun folks can come here and blast the shit out of me...I don't fucking care !
I'm going out today for a long walk,Monday I will be on the net seeking out whatever groups here in my area who are trying to do something about guns,I will find them and I will ask how I can help...because bitching about it on a lap top just doesn't cut it anymore,I figure there is blood on my hands too,cause I never did nothing more than bitch.
20 children are dead today.....how long before the next tragedy ?

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I have,and always will be very vocal about how I feel about guns,and the pervasive "gun culture" in this country.
Well now we have little children to bury in Newton Conn. and I have had it.
In my opinion anyone who has ever argued a pro gun position,anyone who has ever taken a stance against reasonable gun control legislation,anyone who has ever used the bullshit "slippery slope" argument has blood on their hands.
The blood of children.
Now many of you are going to blast me for this ,I just might lose some "friends" here for posting this.
I don't fucking care,we in this country have for far too long embraced the mayhem,we have suffered the tragedy's and we have buried the dead
All at the alter of a few words written 200 years ago.
It's time for the madness to stop,actually way past time.
These were legally held guns in Newton.
A teacher,an elderly woman thought she needed to own three weapons one of them a semi-automatic assault rifle?
Is she who the NRA is referring to when they talk about "responsible gun owners"?
Is she the poster child for the right to bear arms ?
Well she is dead today and we can't ask her why she needed such weapons.....she is dead as a result of owning such weapons...and 20 little children are dead because she owned,legally,such weapons.
Now all of you pro gun folks can come here and blast the shit out of me...I don't fucking care !
I'm going out today for a long walk,Monday I will be on the net seeking out whatever groups here in my area who are trying to do something about guns,I will find them and I will ask how I can help...because bitching about it on a lap top just doesn't cut it anymore,I figure there is blood on my hands too,cause I never did nothing more than bitch.
20 children are dead today.....how long before the next tragedy ?

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ORIGINAL: RacerJim

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ORIGINAL: thezeppo

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Thanks for proving my point, including the Freudian slip in the first sentence. You are using these deaths (and the thousands of others that occur every year) as an excuse for 'othering'

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I don't know about anyone else that shares my opinion......but I know that the two people that live in this house are by far 'tap dancing'.

WE are looking at, our grand children, nieces, nephews, friend's children, etc etc etc......and knowing that it could have easily been them. Fuck the rights of those that need semi automatic or automatic weapons as mental barriers for their own crazy fears and/or extensions of their dicks.

What about the rights of the rest of us???

What is the correct reaction to these deaths then, if not advocating for greater gun control?

What is the correct reaction to the many, Many, MANY times over more deaths by abortion and distracted (cell-phones etc), drunk andor flat out inept drivers...if not for greater abortion and driver control?

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ORIGINAL: Aylee
I also would like to reduce the number of children killed each year. 

I will even fully support you in your efforts to ban all firearms on the condition that you also work to ban swimming pools.  You see, about six times as many children are killed each year by drowning as are killed by firearms.  If we would ban swimming pools as well as firearms we could save a whole lot of children from dying each year. 

So, what do you say?  Are you willing to work at banning swimming pools as well?

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ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

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ORIGINAL: Aylee
I also would like to reduce the number of children killed each year. 

I will even fully support you in your efforts to ban all firearms on the condition that you also work to ban swimming pools.  You see, about six times as many children are killed each year by drowning as are killed by firearms.  If we would ban swimming pools as well as firearms we could save a whole lot of children from dying each year. 

So, what do you say?  Are you willing to work at banning swimming pools as well?

How about a middle way?

Require guns to be stored safely, preferably after taking a gun safety course, and demand pools be fenced in, so that no child can drop in by accident?

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ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

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ORIGINAL: Aylee
I also would like to reduce the number of children killed each year. 

I will even fully support you in your efforts to ban all firearms on the condition that you also work to ban swimming pools.  You see, about six times as many children are killed each year by drowning as are killed by firearms.  If we would ban swimming pools as well as firearms we could save a whole lot of children from dying each year. 

So, what do you say?  Are you willing to work at banning swimming pools as well?

How about a middle way?

Require guns to be stored safely, preferably after taking a gun safety course, and demand pools be fenced in, so that no child can drop in by accident?

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ORIGINAL: thezeppo


See above. Not biting on 'death by abortion' either. The argument that America should not have gun control because people will find other ways of killing each other has always seemed rather fallacious to me. Surely the point of gun control is to prevent people being shot with guns? In the UK, anyone who wants a gun can have one, providing they can satisfy the terms of a gun license. What is so wrong with that system?

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ORIGINAL: Aylee
Mike,

I also would like to reduce the number of children killed each year. 

I will even fully support you in your efforts to ban all firearms on the condition that you also work to ban swimming pools.  You see, about six times as many children are killed each year by drowning as are killed by firearms.  If we would ban swimming pools as well as firearms we could save a whole lot of children from dying each year. 

So, what do you say?  Are you willing to work at banning swimming pools as well?

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ORIGINAL: susie

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ORIGINAL: thezeppo


See above. Not biting on 'death by abortion' either. The argument that America should not have gun control because people will find other ways of killing each other has always seemed rather fallacious to me. Surely the point of gun control is to prevent people being shot with guns? In the UK, anyone who wants a gun can have one, providing they can satisfy the terms of a gun license. What is so wrong with that system?

It is not true that in the UK anyone that wants a gun can have one. Getting a licence is a long and complicated business. Every stage of the process is designed to reduce the likelihood of a gun falling into the wrong hands. It starts with an application form which asks specific questions about why the individual wants a gun, telling them they need to show "good reason".

The criteria are tougher for firearms than shotguns because weapons that fire bullets must only be used for specific purposes in specific places. These would include deer stalking or sports shooting on an approved range.

In contrast, shotguns tend to be used in more general rural circumstances, such as by farmers who are protecting livestock from foxes - and police recognise that landowners need guns for pest control.

Independent referees provide confidential character statements in which they are expected to answer in detail about the applicant's mental state, home life and attitude towards guns.

Officers check the Police National Computer for a criminal record and they speak to the applicant's GP for evidence of alcoholism, drug abuse or signs of personality disorder. Social services can also be asked for reasons to turn down an applicant.

Finally, senior officers must be sure that prospective shotgun holders have a secure location for the weapon, typically a dedicated gun cabinet. Each certificate is valid for five years.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata


I find your argument irrational, and your judge-and-jury apportionment of blood-guilt despicable. I warrant there isn't a CCW holder here who, if present at the scene of that carnage, wouldn't have acted in behalf of the children even at the risk of their own life. And I do not appreciate you using the deaths of those children as an excuse to unload your phobic rage on people who are just as shocked and hurt as you right now.

K.