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RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 3:03:42 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Thanks for proving my point, including the Freudian slip in the first sentence. You are using these deaths (and the thousands of others that occur every year) as an excuse for 'othering'

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I don't know about anyone else that shares my opinion......but I know that the two people that live in this house are by far 'tap dancing'.

WE are looking at, our grand children, nieces, nephews, friend's children, etc etc etc......and knowing that it could have easily been them. Fuck the rights of those that need semi automatic or automatic weapons as mental barriers for their own crazy fears and/or extensions of their dicks.

What about the rights of the rest of us???

While you,and those that think like you,are ACCEPTING those deaths as nothing more than the cost of doing business.
As I said, blood is on the hands of each and every one of us who stands by and thinks there is "just nothing that can be done about it"
And proponents of the sanctity of the second.....well the blood is just dripping off their hands right now !

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Powergamz1)

Post #: 41

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 3:04:42 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Mike.. darling... Im sending you mail.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 42

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 3:34:41 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

Tell you what I just told someone else.

You come up with a way to get every full auto tech 9, uzi, mac 10, AK 47 and god knows what else out of the hands of gang bangers who are responsible for more children getting killed in one year than all the people who have died in mass shootings since columbine, then we can talk.

Otherwise, go shut up.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 43

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 3:37:29 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Tell you what I just told someone else.

You come up with a way to get every full auto tech 9, uzi, mac 10, AK 47 and god knows what else out of the hands of gang bangers who are responsible for more children getting killed in one year than all the people who have died in mass shootings since columbine, then we can talk.

Otherwise, go shut up.

If more gun owners were responsible enough, we wouldnt have half the problems we do now.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 44

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 3:38:40 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: thezeppo
What is the correct reaction to these deaths then, if not advocating for greater gun control?

How does one have an intelligent, coherent discussion about gun control with someone frothing at the mouth like the OP?

Perhaps I'm "frothing at the mouth" because 20 little children got GUNNED down yesterday.
Why aren't you ?
Not quite enough to tip you over the edge ?
I think the time for a rational conversation is long past over.
I'm sick and tired of burying the victims
Why aren't you ?
I think enough is fucking enough
Why don't you ?
Perhaps a few more people frothing at the mouth and the pro gun idiots will get the fucking message.
We,or at least I,or sick and fucking tired of the carnage.
Let me ask YOU one last time,why aren't YOU ?

20 children were gunned down.
The details which have been made known make it more horrific: each person shot, adult and child was shot more than once.
Large caliber bullets, tearing apart tiny bodies, made identification very difficult.

If someone wants to discuss the ties between mass-shootings and mental illness, Here is a Mother Jones article written earlier this month, before yesterday.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/11/jared-loughner-mass-shootings-mental-illness

If someone wants recent gun purchasing stats, here is another article:
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/12/christmas-guns-black-friday-obama

And if someone wants to bring up the second amendment yet does not understand that the single load muskets of that era were an entirely different animal than automatic and semi-automatic weapons that are too often used in mass shootings and spree killings and I have strong personal doubts that the "right to bear arms" meant: to have weapons that are very effective at killing large numbers of people... then have at it.

For people who are asking for logic and research... your request was just granted.

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

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30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 45

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 3:40:23 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Not to mention, when that amendment was written the federal government NEEDED the civilians to be armed because the military was shit. Broke. etc

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to angelikaJ)

Post #: 46

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 3:41:57 PM

JstAnotherSub

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

For the first time in my life, I would be willing to hand over the three guns I own to be destroyed if it would help stop killings like this.

I am sickened by it, and I am disgusted with us as a country that we can not find a way to stop shit like this from happening.

Something has to change now. Our forefathers had no idea of the evil and technology that would come to be.

It has to stop.

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to angelikaJ)

Post #: 47

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 4:11:08 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

Something has to change now. Our forefathers had no idea of the evil and technology that would come to be. It has to stop.

Then ban technology, because that's the only way you will make it stop, except to actually improve living conditions across the board. This is simple enough: technology amplifies the human power to act, but not our resillience to harm. In mere decades, it's not unlikely the average human in the West will have the option to choose to kill thousands to tens of thousands at a whim, so the question becomes: will you leave them means, motive and opportunity to?

Of course, we could try for 1984 or maybe Brave New World, but how is that any better?

IWYW,
— Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

Post #: 48

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 4:22:30 PM

Powergamz1

Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline

I'm talking about using facts and logic (instead of sound bites and the blame game) to find a rational way to end these deaths and the thousands of others that occur every year, and you are willing to tell any lie or play any dishonest debate game to stop that discussion from occuring.

The schadenfreude is all yours...

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Thanks for proving my point, including the Freudian slip in the first sentence. You are using these deaths (and the thousands of others that occur every year) as an excuse for 'othering'

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I don't know about anyone else that shares my opinion......but I know that the two people that live in this house are by far 'tap dancing'.

WE are looking at, our grand children, nieces, nephews, friend's children, etc etc etc......and knowing that it could have easily been them. Fuck the rights of those that need semi automatic or automatic weapons as mental barriers for their own crazy fears and/or extensions of their dicks.

What about the rights of the rest of us???

While you,and those that think like you,are ACCEPTING those deaths as nothing more than the cost of doing business.
As I said, blood is on the hands of each and every one of us who stands by and thinks there is "just nothing that can be done about it"
And proponents of the sanctity of the second.....well the blood is just dripping off their hands right now !

< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 12/15/2012 4:29:45 PM >

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 49

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 4:31:10 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Tell you what I just told someone else.

You come up with a way to get every full auto tech 9, uzi, mac 10, AK 47 and god knows what else out of the hands of gang bangers who are responsible for more children getting killed in one year than all the people who have died in mass shootings since columbine, then we can talk.

Otherwise, go shut up.

If more gun owners were responsible enough, we wouldnt have half the problems we do now.

Tazzy most of those guns are stolen, obtained from black market sources, and the ATF intercepts a number of illegal gun shipments into the US, or obtained through straw purchases.

Come up with a workable solution and you will save thousands of children a year.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 50

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 4:38:41 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Tazzy most of those guns are stolen, obtained from black market sources, and the ATF intercepts a number of illegal gun shipments into the US, or obtained through straw purchases.

Come up with a workable solution and you will save thousands of children a year.

I just did. Require them to be locked up. Limit access. If you are caught with one, its a felony.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 51

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 4:42:36 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Mike,

I also would like to reduce the number of children killed each year.

I will even fully support you in your efforts to ban all firearms on the condition that you also work to ban swimming pools. You see, about six times as many children are killed each year by drowning as are killed by firearms. If we would ban swimming pools as well as firearms we could save a whole lot of children from dying each year.

So, what do you say? Are you willing to work at banning swimming pools as well?

This is exactly how I see it. I don't own a gun. I don't want to own a gun. I've never been a member of any gun association or group. But seriously, in the US there are some things I'd rather look at first... inadequate access to healthcare leading to a ridiculously high infant mortality rate comes to mind. Poverty and mental health issues would weigh strongly in my thinking. Fixing the economy to promote a more secure and better overall home life seems important. Swimming pools would be lower on my list. Gun ownership appears on my list somewhere way below those things.

I'm actually somewhat shocked by everyone's shock over the shooting. It's such a drop in the bucket compared to the stuff we expound as wonderful on a daily basis.

Okay,I'm going to be sick right now.

Are these the people I am supposed to have a "rational discussion" with ?

I would rather not,I would never feel clean again.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 52

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 4:42:51 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Tazzy most of those guns are stolen, obtained from black market sources, and the ATF intercepts a number of illegal gun shipments into the US, or obtained through straw purchases.

Come up with a workable solution and you will save thousands of children a year.

If 'most of those guns' are stolen, where are they stolen from? What responsible (cough) gun owner that originally purchased them legally, allowed them to be stolen?

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 53

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 4:44:55 PM

marie2

Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline

There are all kinds of sickos out there; it's all very sad, but banning guns isn't going to stop children (or adults for that matter) from being violated, maimed, raped, abused, and killed in any myriad of horrifying ways. It happens every day.

Sure, in this particular case, if this mentally ill young man didn't own fire arms these particular people would probably still be alive. But what about the kids who are strangled to death after some sick fucker kidnaps and rapes them? What about the kids who are drowned in a bathtub by their own mother? What about the kids who are killed because some shithead got behind the wheel drunk? Or kids who burned to death in a housefire because someone fell asleep with a lit cigarette?

I'm not sure guns need to be in the hands of civilians. We could take guns away, and people won't get shot anymore. I suppose that's something. But the world is a horrible place where horrible things (that don't involve guns) happen to people every day. Ain't shit you can do to stop it. It's just the way things are, the way they've always been, and the way they always will be.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 54

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 4:47:17 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Tell you what I just told someone else.

You come up with a way to get every full auto tech 9, uzi, mac 10, AK 47 and god knows what else out of the hands of gang bangers who are responsible for more children getting killed in one year than all the people who have died in mass shootings since columbine, then we can talk.

Otherwise, go shut up.

There you go.
This is what passes for a "reasonable discussion" from an acolyte of the Second......move the goal post to an impossible proposition,throw their arms up at the inability to reach the goal line,and declare nothing can be done.
Tell you what Jeff....You shut the fuck up,I started thread I''m going to stay here.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 55

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 4:47:59 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Doing nothing is better than doing something?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to marie2)

Post #: 56

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 4:59:12 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

All I know is this.

Things are going to change. I know it as sure as I know I am currently surrounded by furry love on this sofa. And if the gun lovers cannot accept that reality and get down off their self defensive high horses and be a part of a change we can all accept, at some point in the future they are going to be whining and moaning about how the eeeeeeeeeeebil government and do-gooders took away their precious 2nd amendment rights back in......whatever date.

They have two choices, help come up with a workable solution, or play victim.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 57

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 5:39:54 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

All I know is this.

Things are going to change. I know it as sure as I know I am currently surrounded by furry love on this sofa. And if the gun lovers cannot accept that reality and get down off their self defensive high horses and be a part of a change we can all accept, at some point in the future they are going to be whining and moaning about how the eeeeeeeeeeebil government and do-gooders took away their precious 2nd amendment rights back in......whatever date.

They have two choices, help come up with a workable solution, or play victim.

The gun manufacturers and their toadies have been using the specter of this President evil attentions,where their guns are concerned,to drum up business since the election,his first term.
The President I saw yesterday looked like a man filled with resolve,I,for one,certainly hope he retains that resolve,that anger,that disgust.

If we,as a society,can bury twenty children and simply chalk it up to the cost of doing business than we are truly lost.
If we as a society can watch twenty sets of parents bury their children and not find the political will to act....than we are truly fucked.
If we ,as a society,can sit on our hands and simply count the day till the next tragedy.....have your next thread without me,I will not be back again to join in the communal gnashing of teeth,the communal expression of grief absent any resolve to do anything to avoid the inevitable repeat.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 58

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 5:51:39 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Well here is the dealio from where I sit.

Last night, the guy I live with, was so appalled at the thing out east, that he wrote a very well worded post on his Facebook which prompted an excellent discussion. Now, I know that no one here has even half a clue as to how big a deal that is. But from where I sit, knowing the man as well as I do, it was HUGE. I mean, like mega fucking HUGE. This is a man that lives in the middle of gun worshiping redneck country and makes his living off of them. He is so passionate about it, that he is willing to risk his lively hood in speaking out.

This is also a man who is very well respected in this community as well as the military community. His opinion is far reaching. He is also extremely well educated on politics, history, and issues that, quite honestly, often fly right over my, lack of give a damn to know, head. He communicates regularly with our politicians, both locally and big picture. I know this man as well as I know myself. Once he is on a mission, he's like a mule with the bit in his teeth. If a person like him is now activated for change, I am 100% certain there will be change.

Seriously, it would behoove the gun lovers to get on board and work with guys like him......or they will be swamped in the wake. Certainly it won't happen as quickly as he would like, but it will happen.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 59

RE: Simply an opinion. - 12/15/2012 6:13:39 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

I'm not sure guns need to be in the hands of civilians.

In a world of honest politicians, tolerant and accomodating majorities, and general peace on earth, probably not. In this world, I think we have to make a nod to the fact that these guns are the reason you're nation and not colonies of UK, France, etc., and that they may be needed again in the future for similar reasons. Let's all hope not, though.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to marie2)

Post #: 60

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