jlf1961
Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
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Various countries have tried bans, zero ownership laws, off premises storage and use, and guess what, there are still incidents of gun violence, even mass killings in those countries.
In this country, there is either get rid of all guns, make the guns inaccessable to the owners, or on the other side of the coin, unrestricted ownership.
You people scream and yell and blame gun owners when something like this happens, and then when you are asked to come up with a workable solution to a far greater problem, such as I pointed out, getting the fully automatic weapons out of the hands of gang bangers and drug operations, you immediately shoot back with "the guns were stolen from people who legally purchased them."
Look, to own a fully automatic weapon in the states is damn near impossible, but they made it hard for a reason, to keep nut jobs from getting hold of a waapon with a 1500 round rate of fire.
Guess what? Those weapons with rates of fire of 1000 rounds plus are in the streets of our inner cities and kill more children and innocent adults than every mass shooting since Columbine.
Which is the more serious problem? The fact that most street gangs and drug gangs are armed as well as our military and better than the local cops, or the rare exception of a deranged individual who goes on a killing spree?
Both are serious problems, but, the full auto military grade weapons in the streets were not stolen from someone that bought the damn thing legally. They were bought from the occasional GI that decided that uncle sam dont pay enough and he can get a load of quick cash for selling a bunch of weapons that somehow got lost in the shuffle, they were bought by the semi legit arms dealer who ships arms all over the world, but had to unload a bunch that the deal fell through, and guess what, he is paid more per unit by the street gangs.
That shit is not made for TV fiction, it happens every day in this country, and the ATF is hard pressed to stop 10% of these deals.
Look, fior around 3 grand I can take the technical info I have from my army days and have a local machine shop owner make every part for a mini gun that fires 6000 rounds a minute. Then all I have to do is put it together.
Imagine that in the hands of a drug or street gang. The ATF stopped a militia from getting a couple of them, so it is not far fetched to think that some drug financed street gang is trying to figure out how to get and use one.
The mexican drug cartels have shoulder fired rocket that are used to bust bunkers and stop vehicles. You want to bet that none ever see their way into the states?
Let's talk about ammo any caliber you want in any amount you want, including banned rounds like the infamous cop killers, the rounds designed to punch through body armor, then you have standard armor piercing ammo, again in every rifle caliber you could want.
Lets talk about legal weapons that these gang bangers with criminal records should not be able to get but do, Just about every conceivable sporting long arm you could want in every popular caliber, up to and including the wonderful Barret 50 cal sniper rifle, bold action with a range of 2 miles and accurate the whole way. Neat thing about the 50cal machine gun round, punches through an inch of steel armor plate like a hot knife through butter, and why is it legal, it is a bolt action rifle, pretty expensive for the average gun owner, but we are talking about drug financed gangs here, then there are the bolt action Lapua .338 magnum rifles, a specialized military sniper round, now available form any body willing to do a straw buy and make three times what he paid for it.
There are more of these weapons on the streets than have ever been sold legally in the United States.
Lets talk exotics, those wonderful Aug Steyr rifles. Available in just about any rifle caliber from .223 (5.56mm NATO) up to and including the wonderful .308 (7.62 NATO) and the wonderful Lapua .338 magnum sniper round. The civilian versions are bolt action, the military and leo version are bolt action and semi auto. Go to their website and read about these babies, expensive as hell but oh so accurate over long ranges.
Now someone in the gun control thread mentioned grenade launchers, these are available by special ATF license to the civilian collector, para military private militias love these things, and so do the Mexican drug cartels. These are not bought legally by these groups, you think they wont get in the hands of street gangs, think again.
Let me give you some numbers to think about.
The number of legally owned guns of all types and calibers in private civilian John Q Public hands is 270 million. We lead the world in private gun ownership.
The latest study for illegal guns in the US was 4 million, and that was in the Clinton administration. Then it was harder to get a gun illegally. Now you can go to any seedy bar in any large city, spend a little time, prove you aint a cop and get what you want for the right price. Gone are the days of the Saturday Night Specials, those cheep throw away guns of the 60's and 70's. Many pro and anti gun groups think the number of illegal and banned guns in the hands of criminals could be as much as twice as many as the legal guns.
Why you may ask, the answer is simple. Street gangs are dealing drugs for the Mexican drug cartels, the cartels want to insure that their product is safe and if something happens to it, their contracted dealers are gonna have the ability to do something about it.
The Mexican drug cartels are doing the same thing the US and Soviet Union did in the cold war. One cartel gives its client gang AK-47's, every other Cartel gives their clients the same thing.
Ever wonder why there are so many AK-47's in use around the world? The answer is simple, the Warsaw Pact countries, the Soviet Union and the Chinese gave the damn things away by the millions to every communist guerrilla group that wanted them.
You want some news that will scare the crap out of you anti gun proponents?
The street value of a full auto AK47 is as low as fifty dollars, they are the cheapest illegal fire arm to buy anywhere in the world.
Want to know some more good news?
Those cottage industry blacksmiths making full auto copies of AK-47's all over Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, South East Asia, the Arab countries where gun ownership is illegal for any gun, and now in 3rd world countries in the western hemisphere, you surely have seen the reports on the news about these entrepreneurs? Well they are making the things out of scrap steel from car parts. These things, for the most part, are just as reliable as the factory made models, and these can go for as little as 10 dollars US in the back streets of Guatemala or some other 3rd world hell hole, and then they make their way to the streets of the US.
You know why this is possible?
You can bury the damn things in mud, pick them up, shake em a bit and open fire. The tolerances between the moving parts is so big that they are just about impossible to foul with dirt or sand, and as for cleaning, the US military learned real fast in Vietnam that the NVA and VC did not spend much time cleaning the damn things.
Now you people think the occasional spree shooter is a problem?
Get real, the cops in the US are many times out gunned except maybe the SWAT teams.
At present there are approximately 1 million gang members associated with 20000 street gangs in the US. Approximately 30000 people die each year in gang related violence, and most of those by illegal fire arms. In Chicago alone in 2011 there were 260 children killed by gang violence. Take that number as an average and put it to every major city in the US.
According to the anti gun lobby there are 20 mass killing a year in the US. Bullshit.
Since Columbine the average was just over 2 a year, until this year. We have had 16 mass shootings this year.
You want facts, I am giving them to you.
Not all of these incidents happened in schools, they happened in places like a Sikh temple in Washington.
Cry for the children, every child killed by a gun in the US. I am not telling you not to.
Be outraged when somebody shoots up a school or mall.
But dont get high and mighty and tell me that by eliminating or restricting the way guns are owned is going to make a big difference in the number of innocent people of all ages killed each year because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, even if it was supposed to be safe.
There is no safe place on any street or any mall anywhere in the US today.
Dont tell the people that own guns and use them and store them responsibly that you are going to restrict their access to their guns to make the streets and schools safer. Because that is just bullshit.
And for the extreme anti gun, get rid of all privately owned guns, dont tell me that by taking away my right to own, use and keep firearms is going to make the streets safer. You are either trying to convince yourself that is the truth or you are deluded.
You people think it is a joke owner tells you that if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them.
Got news for you, the guns that the US have the tightest restrictions on are already in the hands of criminals.
You really want to solve the problem, honestly?
Drop the extreme stances and demands.
Be ready to compromise and put forward some reasonable ideas.
But dont tell me that by restricting my access to my property is going to make it safer for everyone. Because that aint even close to being true. The number killed in mass shootings is a very small fraction of the total number killed, which far and away is more than every child killed in a mass shooting since Columbine.
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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?
You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.
Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI
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RE: Simply an opinion. - 
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