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RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 5:55:33 PM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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In the spirit of the OP...

Hunting rifles: one shot, one clean kill.

Combat rifles: enough lead on target to neutralize the threat.

Around these parts, the most popular hunting rifle caliber is the 6.5x55mm, which in the hands of someone used to it will reliably drop some of the largest game animals we have out to a substantial range with a single hit, and which will reliably kill their two legged counterparts out to about half a mile in the same hands.

If you want to hunt bear with center mass shots, you'll need something a bit larger, and the .338 lapua magnum is gaining ground among the hunters and target shooters, which theoretically permits dropping a bear about a mile out, though I obviously wouldn't attempt that. That round has the longest confirmed human kill of 2.8km (1.7 miles), with a double kill confirmed at 2.5km (1.5 miles), and there's plenty of "young adults" using it here.

That said, most of the time, from what I can tell, spree killings tend to be fairly up close and personal, where any caliber will "do the job", and handgun shooting victims seem to substantially outnumber rifle shooting victims, even when we include spree killings. For spree killings, I suspect shotguns will "get the job done" as readily as, if not more so than, rifles and handguns. Converting rifles and shotguns to handguns seems to be a comparative rarity, but that might change (sawing them down is common in Norway as a substitute for having handguns, but it still seems to be a fairly rare thing).

I'll leave out the political conclusions.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 21

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 5:56:59 PM

Tallblkdom

Posts: 14
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/07/23/six-facts-about-guns-violence-and-gun-control/

I will cite one of the facts from the above article here (for details please read the article):

More guns tend to mean more homicide.

ENOUGH SAID.

One can manipulate numbers, if you want the real facts go to the FBI website.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl20.xls

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)

Post #: 22

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 5:58:06 PM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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And you need to read closer...the numbers you used are ONLY H1N1 deaths, that count doesnt include deaths from other strains.

Bottom line is there are lots of things killing people we dont eveb give a shit about. So going after guns because of the death toll doesnt override the 2nd amendment for me.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 23

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 5:59:37 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

The flu you cant prevent, can you?

Can you prevent who gets their hands on a gun?

Not always, but with a hell of a lot better accuracy than the flu.

_____________________________

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 24

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:02:30 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Give me some time to get all the reports on the Assault Weapon ban and I will get back here with some facts.

Mike we know about 20 dead children. If we dont see it in here we see it on every news broadcast on tv, with all the gruesome pictures to boot.

Christ all the news media in this country needs is a bunch of people killed by fucking crazy son of a bitch, a nice war to broadcast live from, or some fucking terrorist with a bomb in his fucking underwear. Reporters are nothing but fucking vultures.

Are you quite sure you know Jeff...for instance were you aware they were SHOT to death.
According to every source I have seen there was no,let me repeat that NO explosives involved.

Mike stop the bullshit, yes I know they were fucking shot. If you would actually READ the responses to your point, you would have figured out a few things that I have tried to get across about guns in general and so called assault weapons to be specific.

Go back and read my responses for gods sake. I have answered every one of your points, and then some.

No Jeff ,I will not go back and read your responses,I've read enough of your posts....you seem to want to have this conversation on some esoteric level that I do not care to stoop to.
You have done nothing but engage in deflection and obfuscation .
You are intent on introducing technical information where it is not needed,you seem to want to delve into the minutia of bomb making and some such nonsense
You made the claim in another thread that you have not slept since Friday,I do not wish to violate TOS by telling another poster what to do...but were it me I would not be capable of rational thought and would hope that someone came along and told me to get some sleep.
No I will not read your posts,life is just too short.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 25

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:02:59 PM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveby12

something that has no other purpose but to kill.

Firearms are designed to cause injury to what they hit. Period. Said injury may or may not be fatal, according to shot placement. Shooting to wound rather than kill can be a sound military strategy when it will cause the enemy to divert scarce fuel and personnel resources to transport and care. In that kind of shooting scenario, a wounded enemy is better than a dead one! So not even military rifles can be said to have "no other purpose but to kill".

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/17/2012 6:06:29 PM >

(in reply to slaveby12)

Post #: 26

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:03:58 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

We imported Swedish 1896 Mausers by the 10s of thousands. 6.5 is both accurate and lethal. I have a 1914? Westinghouse built Negant made for Czar Nicholas that was used in the Russian invasion of Finland then captured by the Finns, rebuilt at a government armory (Sako) and held in war reserve for decades.

I can hit a man sized target pretty well at 1200 yards from a bench rest.

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 27

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:04:20 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

There is a knife or knives in virtually every household .Out numbering the numbers of guns, countless times......

Yet knives don`t kill as many folks as guns do.......

The reason?

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 28

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:04:56 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveby12

something that has no other purpose but to kill.

Firearms are designed to cause injury to what they hit. Said injury may or may not be fatal, according to shot placement. Shooting to wound, not to kill, can be a sound military strategy when the enemy can be counted upon to divert scarce resources to transport and care for its injured soldiers. In that kind of scenario, a wounded enemy is better than a dead one. So not even military rifles can be said to have "no other purpose but to kill".

K.

Well there you go,I feel better already

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 29

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:06:59 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The flu you cant prevent, can you?

Can you prevent who gets their hands on a gun?

Not always, but with a hell of a lot better accuracy than the flu.

So you as much as called me a wing nut, i read your source and find you screwd up and now you talk about flue being incurable?

Current vacine is almost 100% effective, those deaths are because so few people bother to get the vacine resulting in mass deaths of children and seniors.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 30

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:10:07 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

There is a knife or knives in virtually every household .Out numbering the numbers of guns, countless times......

Yet knives don`t kill as many folks as guns do.......

The reason?

Guns are more effective killers. So when your brilliant plan to ban guns goes into effect..knives become the best weapon.

Australia pulled this shit. Banned guns...then had to ban swords...and has ridiculous rules on knives now too.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 31

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:19:40 PM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

There is a knife or knives in virtually every household .Out numbering the numbers of guns, countless times......

Yet knives don`t kill as many folks as guns do.......

The reason?

Because it is a hell of lot easier to kill someone with a gun than it is with a knife.

Pull a trigger. From a great distance away. Kill more than one person.

What kind of knife would enable someone to do that? Not any knife I have in my kitchen.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 32

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:23:48 PM

slaveby12

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/26/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveby12

something that has no other purpose but to kill.

Firearms are designed to cause injury to what they hit. Period. Said injury may or may not be fatal, according to shot placement. Shooting to wound rather than kill can be a sound military strategy when it will cause the enemy to divert scarce fuel and personnel resources to transport and care. In that kind of shooting scenario, a wounded enemy is better than a dead one! So not even military rifles can be said to have "no other purpose but to kill".

K.

Nice try but still vending machines aren't designed to maim people either so the comparison with other things is still invalid.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 33

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:27:43 PM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Guns are more effective killers. So when your brilliant plan to ban guns goes into effect..knives become the best weapon.

Australia pulled this shit. Banned guns...then had to ban swords...and has ridiculous rules on knives now too.

Knives might become the next best weapon, but far fewer people would ever want to kill another human being with a knife than with a gun. Killing with a knife actually requires getting one's hands dirty, quite literally. Not all people can stomach that.

I know for me personally, it would be much easier to shoot someone than to have to stab them with a carving knife. If I were in real danger, I wouldn't hesitate to stab someone. But pulling a trigger? I could see myself pulling a trigger even if I just thought I was in danger (i.e., pulling a trigger from far away because of a threat I perceived at a distance, but couldn't even ascertain.)

Just engaging in the above thought process for me is such a clear indication of how much more dangerous a gun (any gun) is than a knife. Killing with a knife requires a true act of intention in a kind of way that a gun simply does not.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 34

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:28:07 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

It would be one thing if massacres were a modern creation, or only possible with guns.

Jonestown
9/11
Oaklahoma City
Waco

Now, if you disarmed all the police when you banned guns, i might be willing to talk but since you wont, yoi dont really believe it will work.

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)

Post #: 35

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:33:37 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

There is a knife or knives in virtually every household .Out numbering the numbers of guns, countless times......

Yet knives don`t kill as many folks as guns do.......

The reason?

Guns are more effective killers. So when your brilliant plan to ban guns goes into effect..knives become the best weapon.

Australia pulled this shit. Banned guns...then had to ban swords...and has ridiculous rules on knives now too.

Do you have any statistics on the frequency of mass shootings "down under" lately ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 36

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:35:38 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveby12

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveby12

something that has no other purpose but to kill.

Firearms are designed to cause injury to what they hit. Period. Said injury may or may not be fatal, according to shot placement. Shooting to wound rather than kill can be a sound military strategy when it will cause the enemy to divert scarce fuel and personnel resources to transport and care. In that kind of shooting scenario, a wounded enemy is better than a dead one! So not even military rifles can be said to have "no other purpose but to kill".

K.

Nice try but still vending machines aren't designed to maim people either so the comparison with other things is still invalid.

Nah,it wasn't even a nice try...just more deflection and obfuscation ....anything goes as long as you change the subject ;-)

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to slaveby12)

Post #: 37

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:41:06 PM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

Homicides from guns far exceed homicides from cyanide poisoning, fire, terrorism or bombs. What is your point here?

People are advocating restrictions on something that causes a high number of homicides.

The issue is not actually "massacres" to use your word, but the high amount of gun related violence in our society.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 38

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:48:27 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Homicides from guns far exceed homicides from cyanide poisoning, fire, terrorism or bombs. What is your point here?O

People are advocating restrictions on something that causes a high number of homicides.

The issue is not actually "massacres" to use your word, but the high amount of gun related violence in our society.

Not sure how to dumb this down enough.

If you take guns away from crazy people they will find lots of other ways to do crazy shot, just ask the Israelis. So lers pretend people are stupid enough to ban guns. Next year, no guns for crazy people ao thwy plow a cadilac into a crowd, or crash an airplane...or build a bomb out of ammonia and iodine...

So next year you want to ban somethong new becaise all tou ate doing is dealing with a symptom not the root cause.

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)

Post #: 39

RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:57:24 PM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Homicides from guns far exceed homicides from cyanide poisoning, fire, terrorism or bombs. What is your point here?O

People are advocating restrictions on something that causes a high number of homicides.

The issue is not actually "massacres" to use your word, but the high amount of gun related violence in our society.

Not sure how to dumb this down enough.

If you take guns away from crazy people they will find lots of other ways to do crazy shot, just ask the Israelis. So lers pretend people are stupid enough to ban guns. Next year, no guns for crazy people ao thwy plow a cadilac into a crowd, or crash an airplane...or build a bomb out of ammonia and iodine...

So next year you want to ban somethong new becaise all tou ate doing is dealing with a symptom not the root cause.

You are ignoring the facts. More guns equals more homicides. You asked for facts. You've got them. So your reasoning, while admittedly simple, is rather faulty. Sometimes "dumbing" things down actually doesn't work. You might want to consider "smartening" up your reasoning instead. Trust me, you'll get farther.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 40

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