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RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 11:03:46 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Not a damn thing. Dont look at me, I didnt introduce it into the discussion.


I did not say you did.

Tazzy. I will find the wording I posted. You dont just want assault rifles, the definition is too vague, you want all the weapons with those capabilities.


I simply said.. why not lock up the guns we have. Auto and semi to a locker.. yes.. I know its not cheap... and the rest at home with a safe, not key only lock, and not glass doored. Does that negate someone from keeping a handgun at the bedside? I would hope anyone who has one there has it secured enough from any children in the home... they are supposed too.. that is the law from my understanding.

I dont want to limit what you can own. And I hate the thought of telling men and women who have served our country what they can keep in their physical possession.

But, dammit, this easy access these kids have to guns so they can take as many out before they go out themselves has got to stop somehow.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 11:23:38 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Yes, I admit your plan will work.

You think the NRA is going to not take it all the way to the conservative supreme court we have and get the bill declared unconstitutional? They will fight it on infringement grounds, and with the court we have they will win.

Look, if they get a comprehensive ban in place it will not do anything about the ones already in public hands, and if it is not specified it will not do anything about the thousands waiting to be shipped in warehouses. It just stopped the manufacture of them.

You and mike get a properly comprehensive ban in the works, and I will support it. You have the word of a Ranger.

You want to make sure the ones already in private hands never show up in our schools, in the hands of a kid or deranged adult, get the government to redirect some of the defense budget to making our schools secure. The US spends 58% of the money spent on defense around the world. Who the hell is going to take us on? No country. The biggest threat is international terrorists, and between me and you, the military machine is not equipped or trained to fight a war against that kind of enemy.

So far this year, they have spent 695.7 billion dollars on defense.

I am being realistic, and a natural pessimist.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 11:52:19 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

You want to make sure the ones already in private hands never show up in our schools, in the hands of a kid or deranged adult


No, what I want is this...

You want to make sure the ones already in private hands never show up in in the hands of a kid or deranged adult.... anywhere.

I realize thats a lofty goal. And I can see a huge market opening up... not only for ranges and lockers.. but for home security as well.

Lets say the law is passed where if you can prove your home security is just as secure as a locker, and you are willing to register all the weapons you would store in a locker, many gun owners would jump all over the chance, no?

We have to start talking about security, ownership, responsibilities and mental health.

Now is the time for that talk to happen.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 11:56:00 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

You want to make sure the ones already in private hands never show up in our schools, in the hands of a kid or deranged adult


No, what I want is this...

You want to make sure the ones already in private hands never show up in in the hands of a kid or deranged adult.... anywhere.

I realize thats a lofty goal. And I can see a huge market opening up... not only for ranges and lockers.. but for home security as well.

Lets say the law is passed where if you can prove your home security is just as secure as a locker, and you are willing to register all the weapons you would store in a locker, many gun owners would jump all over the chance, no?

We have to start talking about security, ownership, responsibilities and mental health.

Now is the time for that talk to happen.


My gun security already exceeds everything you suggested. So yeah, I would go along with that.

As I told mike though, gun sales outpace gun safes and lockboxes by a huge number. There are more glass fronted wood cabinets with a $10 lock sold than gun safes.

How you gonna get people to buy the proper security safe?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 12:01:32 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Im sure many people's security exceeds that. How? You already brought up how. Home inspections, if its not up to standards fines out the ass. Hit em where it really hurts. Many states already require registration. New guns sales and ammo would require an inspection letter from the state. Licenses to hunt or carry could require the same.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 12:04:13 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im sure many people's security exceeds that. How? You already brought up how. Home inspections, if its not up to standards fines out the ass. Hit em where it really hurts. Many states already require registration. New guns sales and ammo would require an inspection letter from the state. Licenses to hunt or carry could require the same.




Forgot about that.

I still would support another ban, if it were comprehensive enough and you could get it by the house.

It wont affect what is already in public hands. But if it is not worded just right, the thousands in the warehouses at the factory and in wholesaler warehouses are gonna flood the market.

But, if it is like the last one, it is gonna be long on promise, short on action. I saw a post from a person that worked in a firearms import company during the last ban, they modified every weapon so that it did not fall under the controls of the ban.

< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 12/18/2012 12:05:37 AM >

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 12:05:22 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		True. And I wouldnt be surprised if the manufacturers dont pump up production "just in case".

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 12:17:43 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im sure many people's security exceeds that. How? You already brought up how. Home inspections, if its not up to standards fines out the ass. Hit em where it really hurts. Many states already require registration. New guns sales and ammo would require an inspection letter from the state. Licenses to hunt or carry could require the same.



that would be a violation or the 4th admendment

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 12:21:42 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

True. And I wouldnt be surprised if the manufacturers dont pump up production "just in case".


They did last time, and importers upped orders.

Another thing that worries me though is another incident like what happened in 1997, it was limited to two people shot, but the shooter admitted those were the only two he wanted to kill.

He sniped them from a concealed spot off the school campus. Got the two in the parking lot.

Have you noticed I have mentioned the Lapua .338 magnum?

That is a custom designed military sniper round, designed for long range. And it is available on 20 different rifles from a few manufacturers for civilians, one is a semi automatic with a five round mag, the rest are bolt actions with a few having detachable magazines.

The nut does not have to get in the schools, he could be 1200 meters away with a clear field of fire.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 12:37:23 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im sure many people's security exceeds that. How? You already brought up how. Home inspections, if its not up to standards fines out the ass. Hit em where it really hurts. Many states already require registration. New guns sales and ammo would require an inspection letter from the state. Licenses to hunt or carry could require the same.



that would be a violation or the 4th admendment



How is it unreasonable? What is being seized?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 12:38:57 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

True. And I wouldnt be surprised if the manufacturers dont pump up production "just in case".


They did last time, and importers upped orders.

Another thing that worries me though is another incident like what happened in 1997, it was limited to two people shot, but the shooter admitted those were the only two he wanted to kill.

He sniped them from a concealed spot off the school campus. Got the two in the parking lot.

Have you noticed I have mentioned the Lapua .338 magnum?

That is a custom designed military sniper round, designed for long range. And it is available on 20 different rifles from a few manufacturers for civilians, one is a semi automatic with a five round mag, the rest are bolt actions with a few having detachable magazines.

The nut does not have to get in the schools, he could be 1200 meters away with a clear field of fire.


Imagine that in the hands of a teenager out for revenge.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 1:02:44 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Sticking to the facts. A young male killed 28 (recently updated toll) people because he was able to because he had easy access to guns. With a knife, sword or machete, he could have killed nowhere near that number if any people at all.

Links of two school machete cases for those who claim knives and machetes would be as efficient at killing as guns.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94206&page=1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverhampton_machete_attack

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 1:20:15 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

At 10:15 that morning, 37-year-old former janitor Mamoru Takuma entered the school armed with a kitchen knife and began stabbing numerous school children and teachers. He killed eight children, mostly between the ages of seven and eight, and seriously wounded thirteen other children and two teachers.[2]

http://www.spartancops.com/edged-weapon-mass-murder/

Of knife single mass murderers that are known to us, (11 at present), two in the USA, one in Germany, most have been in Asia, and most have targeted children in schools. Similar to the copycat active killer murders by firearms, the frightening factor with mass murder by edged weapons is that 25% of these occurred in a two-month period between March and May 2010, (China). Of the 11 mass murders by a single person using a knife known to us, there were 46 murdered, and 139 wounded. The average mass murder/attempt knife incident resulted in 16 casualties. In 92% of the cases, the specific weapon of choice was a knife. The remaining 8% was by a single actor with a meat cleaver who caused 9 murders and 12 wounded.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 1:26:37 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im sure many people's security exceeds that. How? You already brought up how. Home inspections, if its not up to standards fines out the ass. Hit em where it really hurts. Many states already require registration. New guns sales and ammo would require an inspection letter from the state. Licenses to hunt or carry could require the same.



that would be a violation or the 4th admendment



How is it unreasonable? What is being seized?

4th also includes search

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 1:29:43 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Not a damn thing. Dont look at me, I didnt introduce it into the discussion.


I did not say you did.

Tazzy. I will find the wording I posted. You dont just want assault rifles, the definition is too vague, you want all the weapons with those capabilities.


I simply said.. why not lock up the guns we have. Auto and semi to a locker.. yes.. I know its not cheap... and the rest at home with a safe, not key only lock, and not glass doored. Does that negate someone from keeping a handgun at the bedside? I would hope anyone who has one there has it secured enough from any children in the home... they are supposed too.. that is the law from my understanding.

I dont want to limit what you can own. And I hate the thought of telling men and women who have served our country what they can keep in their physical possession.

But, dammit, this easy access these kids have to guns so they can take as many out before they go out themselves has got to stop somehow.

You don't want to limit what I own you just want them to be kept so I can't get them if I need them while giving up my right to privacy allowing the police to search my home anytime they wish and they would have to look anyplace a gun could be hidden to be sure I was following the rules

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 1:31:15 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

At 10:15 that morning, 37-year-old former janitor Mamoru Takuma entered the school armed with a kitchen knife and began stabbing numerous school children and teachers. He killed eight children, mostly between the ages of seven and eight, and seriously wounded thirteen other children and two teachers.[2]

http://www.spartancops.com/edged-weapon-mass-murder/

Of knife single mass murderers that are known to us, (11 at present), two in the USA, one in Germany, most have been in Asia, and most have targeted children in schools. Similar to the copycat active killer murders by firearms, the frightening factor with mass murder by edged weapons is that 25% of these occurred in a two-month period between March and May 2010, (China). Of the 11 mass murders by a single person using a knife known to us, there were 46 murdered, and 139 wounded. The average mass murder/attempt knife incident resulted in 16 casualties. In 92% of the cases, the specific weapon of choice was a knife. The remaining 8% was by a single actor with a meat cleaver who caused 9 murders and 12 wounded.



again the problem isn't the tool it is the evil that inspires it's misuse

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 1:38:51 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Sticking to the facts. A young male killed 28 (recently updated toll) people because he was able to because he had easy access to guns.

Sticking to the facts, a young psycho killed 28 people because he was fucking psycho. If he hadn't been able to get his hands on a gun, he'd have done something else. I agree that he probably picked guns because they were easily accessible, but I don't believe that he wouldn't have done something even more spectacular if guns hadn't been handy.

K.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 1:40:28 AM   
epiphiny43


Posts: 688
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline 		Expecting the local police to actually do diligent home inspections of gun storage is Disney level fantasy. They don't have the funding. (Expect much of the gun ban furor to instantly still when new taxes are discussed?) They don't have the manpower. They don't have the training. They already are too few and too thin of coverage to respond in a timely manner to the emergency and crime calls they get now. And between laziness, incompetence, political influence and corruption, it's hardly going to transform the level of violence in the US.
Japan has twice a year home inspections/census by the actual neighborhood cop, who only works his couple of blocks and knows everyone. You get his signoff that you Have an empty exclusive parking place on private property before you can buy a new car. That level of home intrusion would cause a lot more public fuss than the latest mass killing.
The modus operandi of US authorities is Not to be proactive but to enact draconian penalties for behavior they want to extinguish that only come into play after the fact, then ignore most of the incidents as unwise use of scarce resources. And people wonder why there is so little respect for Law in the country. Creating much of our legal code is actually political theater with the next election cycle the actual goal. Notice how rarely established programs and laws of every sort are revisited to fine tune them for their purpose once we see how the details actually work in the field?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 1:50:53 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

At 10:15 that morning, 37-year-old former janitor Mamoru Takuma entered the school armed with a kitchen knife and began stabbing numerous school children and teachers. He killed eight children, mostly between the ages of seven and eight, and seriously wounded thirteen other children and two teachers.[2]



Eight is not twenty-eight, I'm sure you'll agree. Who knows how many he would have killed when armed with guns.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Gun facts - 12/18/2012 1:52:05 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Sticking to the facts. A young male killed 28 (recently updated toll) people because he was able to because he had easy access to guns.

Sticking to the facts, a young psycho killed 28 people because he was fucking psycho. If he hadn't been able to get his hands on a gun, he'd have done something else. I agree that he probably picked guns because they were easily accessible, but I don't believe that he wouldn't have done something even more spectacular if guns hadn't been handy.

K.


Blaming such incidents on mental illness or mental conditions is comforting waffle, nothing else.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 100
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