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RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 6:59:49 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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Some times folks just have to stick to what folks do best,know what I mean Princess.....lol

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 7:03:17 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Now, talking about whether a ban on on ALL guns would be effective is political.


Anything is 'political' if any given person sees it that way. The question of what is or is not to be considered 'political' is itself a heavily political one.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 7:09:08 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

It would be one thing if massacres were a modern creation, or only possible with guns.

Jonestown
9/11
Oaklahoma City
Waco

Now, if you disarmed all the police when you banned guns, i might be willing to talk but since you wont, yoi dont really believe it will work.



No one is going to listen to the silly NRA talking points now, buddy......save it.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 7:18:36 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Assault weapon (semi-automatic) refers primarily (but not exclusively) to firearms that possess the cosmetic features of an assault rifle (which are fully-automatic). Actually possessing the operational features, such as 'full-auto', is not required for classification as an assault weapon; merely the possession of cosmetic features is enough to warrant such classification as an assault weapon. Semi-automatic firearms, when fired, automatically extract the spent cartridge casing and load the next cartridge into the chamber, ready to fire again; they do not fire automatically like a machine gun; rather, only one round is fired with each trigger pull.

In the former U.S. law, the legal term assault weapon included certain specific semi-automatic firearm models by name (e.g., Colt AR-15, TEC-9, non-select-fire AK-47s produced by three manufacturers, and Uzis) and other semi-automatic firearms because they possess a minimum set of cosmetic features from the following list of features:
A semi-automatic Yugoslavian M70AB2 rifle.
An Intratec TEC-DC9 with 32-round magazine; a semi-automatic pistol formerly classified as an Assault Weapon under Federal Law.

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device that enables launching or firing rifle grenades, though this applies only to muzzle mounted grenade launchers and not those mounted externally).

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine.



The above describes what the Federal Government called an assault weapon, which in fact is a semi-automatic civilian rifle on a military style frame. It took me a while to find the information I wanted, because I wanted to include the pistols that were in that ban.

The Mini 14 made by Ruger was not included in that ban, and it is a semi automatic rifle that you can realistically fire on round every three seconds, 20 rounds a minute. It is available in a variety of configurations including a collapsible stock version.

In all 900 specific weapons were excluded from the bill. It stopped the manufacture and importation of new semi automatic military style firearms. It did nothing about the thousands in warehouses or in the inventory of sporting goods stores, or in the hands of private individuals.

It did nothing to stop sale or production of the famous or infamous desert eagle designed by Magnum Research and made by either Saco industries or by IMI since it was introduced. It is available in .357 mag, .44 mg, .50 Action Express, .440 cor-bon, .41 magnum. The weapons carry 7 to 10 rounds depending on the magazine and a good metal worker could make a larger cap mag.

Now most "assault weapons" are available in .223 (5.56mm NATO) a high velocity but not particularly powerful round. Some are available in .308 (7.62 NATO) which is a high velocity round with a lot of power.

The desert eagles fire bigger bullets, lots bigger. You dont necessarily hit someone in a vital organ, the massive trauma will probably send a person into shock and that or bleeding out will finish the job.

Yes, the so-called assault rifle is a terror in a mass shooting. What makes it that terror is not the weapon itself, but how many bullet you have in the magazine. Adam Lanza killed a lot of kids, and it appears, from what I can find out, he was using either a 15 or 20 round magazine, and that is unconfirmed, if someone knows exactly what he had, I would appreciate it.

I have harped on large capacity magazines in I dont know how many threads, particularly the 15, 20 and 30 round mags commonly available.

Look here at the wonderful world of the Beta Mag, available in 9mm, .223 (5.56 NATO) and .308 (7.62 NATO.) It is a double drum 100 round magazine for AR style rifles, such as the bushmaster used by Lanza.

A new Assault weapon ban, I am sure that C-Mag will make these for semi automatic rifles that are not banned. If these arent on the ban.

If they are, there are a lot of them in circulation right now.

Some of you want the rifles banned. Fine, that does nothing about those already out there.

These are what I want banned, retroactively. If they have to search every owner of record's home, the Defense Spending could be cut a bit to cover it.

California allows a ten round magazine, I think that is too many. Allow five rounds. If you cant hit what you are shooting at with five rounds, you dont need to be shooting you are wasting ammo.

From the ATF website: No records are required for ammunition other than armor piercing ammunition. Disposition records must be kept by licensed manufacturers, importers, and collectors for transactions in armor piercing ammunition.

Ammo can be bought through the mail.

As friday proved, you dont need armor piercing bullets for mass killing, you just need a lot of bullets.

I want ammo sales of more than 50 rounds recorded, and bulk sales should raise the eyebrows of the ATF.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 7:25:03 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

It would be one thing if massacres were a modern creation, or only possible with guns.

Jonestown
9/11
Oaklahoma City
Waco

Now, if you disarmed all the police when you banned guns, i might be willing to talk but since you wont, yoi dont really believe it will work.



No one is going to listen to the silly NRA talking points now, buddy......save it.


True, no one is going to listen to the NRA right now, in fact they arent saying anything. They dont have to. The millions they spend for lawyers and lobbyists will talk for them, and the simple fact is that the Republicans control the house.

Republican= Gun Fanatic.

I am a gun enthusiast, and a prepper. I have a few guns on hand and plenty of ammo. I have a second rural property in some hills that is hard to get to unless you have a 4x4. The world goes crazy, I am taking my guns, my ammo, my crossbow, dogs and family to the second location where I have about a years worth of supplies.

I am not like some preppers with over 10000 rounds of ammo. I have enough to last, because I am frugal when I am shooting.

There was one prepper on NatGeo's "Doomsday Preppers" with 60 military style weapons and claimed to have 20000 rounds for each one.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 7:28:10 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

There is a knife or knives in virtually every household .Out numbering the numbers of guns, countless times......


Yet knives don`t kill as many folks as guns do.......


The reason?


Because it is a hell of lot easier to kill someone with a gun than it is with a knife.

Pull a trigger. From a great distance away. Kill more than one person.

What kind of knife would enable someone to do that? Not any knife I have in my kitchen.





Research the welsh long bow rate of fire and range.

Not as efficient as a gun, but they were the mass kill weapon of the era.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 7:29:22 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

You are ignoring the facts. More guns equals more homicides. You asked for facts. You've got them.

I trimmed off the insults in order to focus on the fact that those are not facts.

Some countries with restrictive gun laws have high homicide rates, others have low homicide rates; some countries with liberal gun laws have high homicide rates, others have low homicide rates. The determining factors in violent crime are cultural and economic.

K.

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 7:36:17 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Research the welsh long bow rate of fire and range.

You might find this video interesting...

Reinventing the fastest forgotten archery

K.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 7:41:07 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveby12

Nice try but still vending machines aren't designed to maim people either so the comparison with other things is still invalid.

Nice flounce, but I have no idea what you're talking about or what relevance it has to my post.

K.

(in reply to slaveby12)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 7:49:48 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

You are ignoring the facts. More guns equals more homicides. You asked for facts. You've got them.

I trimmed off the insults in order to focus on the fact that those are not facts.

Some countries with restrictive gun laws have high homicide rates, others have low homicide rates; some countries with liberal gun laws have high homicide rates, others have low homicide rates. The determining factors in violent crime are cultural and economic.

K.



Finally, some truth to the problem.

Not that anyone will listen, but thanks.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 7:58:04 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveby12

Except vending machines ... were not designed to be used to kill.




You ever eat the shit that comes out of them?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to slaveby12)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 8:06:16 PM   
adx


Posts: 102
Joined: 1/6/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

These are what I want banned, retroactively. If they have to search every owner of record's home, the Defense Spending could be cut a bit to cover it.

California allows a ten round magazine, I think that is too many. Allow five rounds. If you cant hit what you are shooting at with five rounds, you dont need to be shooting you are wasting ammo.

I want ammo sales of more than 50 rounds recorded, and bulk sales should raise the eyebrows of the ATF.


Im not sure you understand how impossible the things you want are. I almost never buy less then a thousand rounds at a time. Its simple Bulk buy saves me time and money. 50 rounds is a ridiculously small amount even on my old WWII bolt action rifle I would use that in 10 minutes at the range. When I go shooting I use at least 500 rounds. More if I use my scary looking Sporting rifle.

As for going door to door and taking all the guns. Im not sure how to break this to you but I dont think the government would succeed.

I get a laugh out of the bayonet mount being a no no. I never understood that. President was shoot with a .22 better ban everything on the other side of the gun spectrum.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 8:15:36 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: adx


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

These are what I want banned, retroactively. If they have to search every owner of record's home, the Defense Spending could be cut a bit to cover it.

California allows a ten round magazine, I think that is too many. Allow five rounds. If you cant hit what you are shooting at with five rounds, you dont need to be shooting you are wasting ammo.

I want ammo sales of more than 50 rounds recorded, and bulk sales should raise the eyebrows of the ATF.


Im not sure you understand how impossible the things you want are. I almost never buy less then a thousand rounds at a time. Its simple Bulk buy saves me time and money. 50 rounds is a ridiculously small amount even on my old WWII bolt action rifle I would use that in 10 minutes at the range. When I go shooting I use at least 500 rounds. More if I use my scary looking Sporting rifle.

As for going door to door and taking all the guns. Im not sure how to break this to you but I dont think the government would succeed.

I get a laugh out of the bayonet mount being a no no. I never understood that. President was shoot with a .22 better ban everything on the other side of the gun spectrum.



I dont want em to take the guns, I want the large cap mags taken.

Maybe it is just me, I was an army sniper, my weapon had a five round mag, and that was plenty. If I hunt with one of my "assault rifles" I use a five round mag.

Now explain to me, please why you need a 10, 15 or 30 round mag in the woods hunting deer? I dont know about where you live, but here in texas there is a one doe, two buck limit.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to adx)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 8:18:07 PM   
slaveby12


Posts: 16
Joined: 6/26/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveby12

Nice try but still vending machines aren't designed to maim people either so the comparison with other things is still invalid.

Nice flounce, but I have no idea what you're talking about or what relevance it has to my post.

K.




You said guns were made to maim and I'm saying that my point remains that all the other things people like to bring up killing people is tottally different than guns because these things are not made to maim or kill.


Well, not directly anyway:

quote:

You ever eat the shit that comes out of them?


Well that's the second funniest thing I've seen today.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 8:20:15 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
Uh, should someone say something about unregulated guns?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to slaveby12)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 8:25:36 PM   
adx


Posts: 102
Joined: 1/6/2010
Status: offline
In Ohio we can only hunt deer with shoot gun with 2 in the tube. Im not dumping 500 rounds Hunting. I head out to the woods and set up targets and spend a day shooting. Its a blast setting up a few dozen target and shooting all day long. Trying to take my mags will not solve any problem. Not like I would give them up anyway.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 8:31:56 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Assault weapon (semi-automatic) refers primarily (but not exclusively) to firearms that possess the cosmetic features of an assault rifle (which are fully-automatic). Actually possessing the operational features, such as 'full-auto', is not required for classification as an assault weapon; merely the possession of cosmetic features is enough to warrant such classification as an assault weapon. Semi-automatic firearms, when fired, automatically extract the spent cartridge casing and load the next cartridge into the chamber, ready to fire again; they do not fire automatically like a machine gun; rather, only one round is fired with each trigger pull.

In the former U.S. law, the legal term assault weapon included certain specific semi-automatic firearm models by name (e.g., Colt AR-15, TEC-9, non-select-fire AK-47s produced by three manufacturers, and Uzis) and other semi-automatic firearms because they possess a minimum set of cosmetic features from the following list of features:
A semi-automatic Yugoslavian M70AB2 rifle.
An Intratec TEC-DC9 with 32-round magazine; a semi-automatic pistol formerly classified as an Assault Weapon under Federal Law.

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device that enables launching or firing rifle grenades, though this applies only to muzzle mounted grenade launchers and not those mounted externally).

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine.



The above describes what the Federal Government called an assault weapon, which in fact is a semi-automatic civilian rifle on a military style frame. It took me a while to find the information I wanted, because I wanted to include the pistols that were in that ban.

The Mini 14 made by Ruger was not included in that ban, and it is a semi automatic rifle that you can realistically fire on round every three seconds, 20 rounds a minute. It is available in a variety of configurations including a collapsible stock version.

In all 900 specific weapons were excluded from the bill. It stopped the manufacture and importation of new semi automatic military style firearms. It did nothing about the thousands in warehouses or in the inventory of sporting goods stores, or in the hands of private individuals.

It did nothing to stop sale or production of the famous or infamous desert eagle designed by Magnum Research and made by either Saco industries or by IMI since it was introduced. It is available in .357 mag, .44 mg, .50 Action Express, .440 cor-bon, .41 magnum. The weapons carry 7 to 10 rounds depending on the magazine and a good metal worker could make a larger cap mag.

Now most "assault weapons" are available in .223 (5.56mm NATO) a high velocity but not particularly powerful round. Some are available in .308 (7.62 NATO) which is a high velocity round with a lot of power.

The desert eagles fire bigger bullets, lots bigger. You dont necessarily hit someone in a vital organ, the massive trauma will probably send a person into shock and that or bleeding out will finish the job.

Yes, the so-called assault rifle is a terror in a mass shooting. What makes it that terror is not the weapon itself, but how many bullet you have in the magazine. Adam Lanza killed a lot of kids, and it appears, from what I can find out, he was using either a 15 or 20 round magazine, and that is unconfirmed, if someone knows exactly what he had, I would appreciate it.

I have harped on large capacity magazines in I dont know how many threads, particularly the 15, 20 and 30 round mags commonly available.

Look here at the wonderful world of the Beta Mag, available in 9mm, .223 (5.56 NATO) and .308 (7.62 NATO.) It is a double drum 100 round magazine for AR style rifles, such as the bushmaster used by Lanza.

A new Assault weapon ban, I am sure that C-Mag will make these for semi automatic rifles that are not banned. If these arent on the ban.

If they are, there are a lot of them in circulation right now.

Some of you want the rifles banned. Fine, that does nothing about those already out there.

These are what I want banned, retroactively. If they have to search every owner of record's home, the Defense Spending could be cut a bit to cover it.

California allows a ten round magazine, I think that is too many. Allow five rounds. If you cant hit what you are shooting at with five rounds, you dont need to be shooting you are wasting ammo.

From the ATF website: No records are required for ammunition other than armor piercing ammunition. Disposition records must be kept by licensed manufacturers, importers, and collectors for transactions in armor piercing ammunition.

Ammo can be bought through the mail.

As friday proved, you dont need armor piercing bullets for mass killing, you just need a lot of bullets.

I want ammo sales of more than 50 rounds recorded, and bulk sales should raise the eyebrows of the ATF.




Recording ammo sales and checking on everyone buying more than 50 rounds wound have authorities running around in circles. The same goes for 1,000 rounds at a time because its so common. Target shooters go through 1,0000 rounds in just a couple of weeks or less. It's not even uncommon to buy 2 or 3 thousand rounds.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 8:47:52 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
point taken.

Bulk sales are common.

Maybe it is just the dealer I buy from but he records everything. Of course if there is nothing doing with a customer he is constantly cleaning and organizing.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 8:49:55 PM   
adx


Posts: 102
Joined: 1/6/2010
Status: offline
I have never seen any gun shop record ammo sales. never even heard of it. I wouldn't buy from a shop that did that.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Gun facts - 12/17/2012 8:57:50 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: adx

I have never seen any gun shop record ammo sales. never even heard of it. I wouldn't buy from a shop that did that.


Actually, any shop using a modern point of sale system records ammo sales and everything else. It is how they control inventory. If they scan a bar code there is a record. On the register tape to show daily sales, in the computer that controls orders and inventory, and on the file backup.

All anyone has to do is pull it up on the main terminal in back.

The police have done that to prove and disprove what people bought in various stores during murder investigations.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to adx)
Profile   Post #: 60
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