RE: All things gun control go here (Full Version)

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SimplyMichael -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 11:30:59 AM)

If someone intelligent wanted to make the right buy into.gin control, disbanding ATF and putting firearms under the FBI would buy a lot of trust and good will.




tazzygirl -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 11:32:04 AM)

Those werent "children"

If you want to make that case.....

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/11/tasered-10-year-old-boy-sues-police/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138488,00.html

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/13/10669114-report-9-year-old-who-skipped-school-is-tasered?lite




TheHeretic -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 11:36:13 AM)

They volunteered to participate for the cameras, JeffBC. And note that they are not getting shot.




FatDomDaddy -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 11:41:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The idea,in order to have any merit at all would need to place an officer in all of our schools.
I object to this on a number of levels.
a)it would not be the fool proof 100% guarantor of our childrens safety as many seem to feel it would,schools are diffuse,sprawling places.
One Officer could not be expected to secure their entirety

e) Place a cop in our schools....inevitably what you will get is some schools being patrolled by officers deemed unfit for actual patrol.



I could talk about each point but these two stick out

I Maryland there is a Police Officer in every high school and it's considered merit/elite duty meaning you have to be a very good officer to have one.

In some of the states high crime urban areas there are officers in all schools.




SimplyMichael -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 11:44:15 AM)

No, they were showing why the 2nd amendment backs up the 1st amendment so when the government stops using pepper spray...like they did at kent state, waco, etc...




slvemike4u -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 11:51:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The idea,in order to have any merit at all would need to place an officer in all of our schools.
I object to this on a number of levels.
a)it would not be the fool proof 100% guarantor of our childrens safety as many seem to feel it would,schools are diffuse,sprawling places.
One Officer could not be expected to secure their entirety

e) Place a cop in our schools....inevitably what you will get is some schools being patrolled by officers deemed unfit for actual patrol.



I could talk about each point but these two stick out

I Maryland there is a Police Officer in every high school and it's considered merit/elite duty meaning you have to be a very good officer to have one.

In some of the states high crime urban areas there are officers in all schools.

And you think that same standard would be met were we to expand such a policy nation wide preK on up ?
I'm sorry I don't share your confidence,some localities would wind up with the fat cop 2 years away from retirement who can no longer handle the stress of the streets.




Nosathro -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 12:05:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

If you want to know why some of us dont trust BATF or their statistics, read the wikipedia section on batf and specifically the controvery section. They are routinely censored for pejury in court. While I cant stand his politucs, read wikis section on Ruby Ridge.

Now I know wiki isnt definitive but it at least tends to try and be middle of the road.

If you ever watched Sons of Anarchy where the atf agent shoots her lover? That happened in Sacramento in real life. They are a rogue agencg.


The Sons of Anarchy is a TV show..not real life....[;)]




Nosathro -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 12:08:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I was out at a, "secure facility," on Friday. Gates, fences, cameras, a couple staff members with firearms in their desks, and absolutely nothing that would stop a determined attacker who figured it was a good day to die.


Just to add, Columbine and Virginia Tech had armed guards on campus, in fact at Columbine armed security officers exchanged gun fire with the attackers... considering the results, a lot good armed guards in both cases did.

Are you sure that they were good armed guards? If they were competent, surely neither they, nor anybody else, would have got shut by the tooled up nuts causing trouble...


You like bad spelling...and this is the typical reaction when face with facts that don't support that arguement.




TheHeretic -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 12:10:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

If you ever watched Sons of Anarchy where the atf agent shoots her lover? That happened in Sacramento in real life. They are a rogue agencg.


The Sons of Anarchy is a TV show..not real life....[;)]


Maybe finish reading the paragraph, Nosathro?

Power corrupts, Michael. Pretty much any government agency with an enforcement arm has the potential to go rogue. You've been mentioning the FBI lately, but perhaps a little Wikipedia exploration on their history would be in order for you. There was this Hoover guy...




Nosathro -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 12:15:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

No, they were showing why the 2nd amendment backs up the 1st amendment so when the government stops using pepper spray...like they did at kent state, waco, etc...


The lst Admendment was adopted by Congress in 1789 the second admendment was adopted in 1791. So the two are very different and do not have anything to do with each other.




VideoAdminChi -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 12:37:52 PM)

FR,

I have removed a number of personal attacks from this thread. Please do not make other posters the topic.




TheHeretic -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 12:38:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

The lst Admendment was adopted by Congress in 1789 the second admendment was adopted in 1791. So the two are very different and do not have anything to do with each other.



Bullshit. The Bill of Rights was submitted by a joint action of Congress in 1789, and ratified in 1791.

Why would you tell such a stupid lie?


Edit to add a link to what everybody should have learned in 6th Grade Civics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights




JeffBC -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 1:53:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
They volunteered to participate for the cameras, JeffBC. And note that they are not getting shot.

*blinks* Hey, whatever works for you. But for my money (and the jury that awarded penalties) the kids did NOT volunteer for that and were, in fact, exercising their 2nd amendment rights while a thug with a badge attacked them with chemical weaponry. I don't want to see that scene repeated in schools all across the country. Hell, I just plain don't want storm troopers standing in the halls of an elementary school even if they ARE behaving themselves. The visuals alone are enough for me to say "no". Our police force is no longer a police force. They are para-military in training, equipment, and mindset. I don't need to turn the schools into a war zone.




jlf1961 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 2:07:57 PM)

quote:

* In the Bill of Rights, the Second Amendment to the Constitution reads:


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.[160]



* Gun control proponents have argued and some federal courts have ruled that the Second Amendment does not apply to individual citizens of the United States but only to members of militias, which, they assert, are now the state National Guard units.[161] [162] In 2002, a federal appeals court panel ruled that "the people" only "have the right to bear arms in the service of the state."[163]



* Gun rights proponents have argued and some federal courts have ruled that the Second Amendment recognizes "an individual right to keep and bear arms."[164] In 2001, a federal appeals court panel ruled that the Second Amendment "protects the right of individuals, including those not then actually a member of any militia or engaged in active military service or training, to privately possess and bear their own firearms...."[165]



* James Madison was the primary author of the Bill of Rights,[166] is known as the "Father of the Constitution" for his central role in its formation,[167] and was one of three authors of the Federalist Papers, a group of essays published in newspapers and books to explain and lobby for ratification of the Constitution.[168] [169]



* In Federalist Paper 46, James Madison addressed the concern that a standing federal army might conduct a coup to take over the nation. He argued that this was implausible because, based on the country's population at the time, a federal standing army couldn't field more than 25,000-30,000 men. He then wrote:


To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence.


Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.[170]
source




SimplyMichael -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 2:08:14 PM)

All things considered, the FBI does its best to be rather professional. The tranny may have ignored the mob and rewarded groupthink a bit heavily but their ethos as an agency is pretty upright.

Anyone in the wine or firearms industry knows what crazy cowboys ATF agents are

Hasbro, sons of anarchy IS a TV show, good call. The crazy, murderious, lying evil bitch ATF agent is an amalgam
of REAL LIVE agents plus an incident in Sacramento where one agent shot another he was sleeping with, either out of fear of being outed or being left, I cant remember which.

Disbanding ATF and putting firearms under the FBI would drop gun crime by a signifixant number in five years and even more in 10.





Nosathro -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 3:03:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

The lst Admendment was adopted by Congress in 1789 the second admendment was adopted in 1791. So the two are very different and do not have anything to do with each other.



Bullshit. The Bill of Rights was submitted by a joint action of Congress in 1789, and ratified in 1791.

Why would you tell such a stupid lie?


Edit to add a link to what everybody should have learned in 6th Grade Civics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights


No bullshit, Fact.




SimplyMichael -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 3:15:53 PM)

Can we have a seperate thread for underoos?




Nosathro -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 3:24:51 PM)




* In Federalist Paper 46, James Madison addressed the concern that a standing federal army might conduct a coup to take over the nation. He argued that this was implausible because, based on the country's population at the time, a federal standing army couldn't field more than 25,000-30,000 men. He then wrote:


To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence.


Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.[170]
source




Well so much for Madison...we have had a standing army for some time. It is presently at about 1 million but in the past has number even higher, much higher, no coup. I admit I enjoyed reading 7 days in May.

By some counts we have some 200 million firearms in the publice sector, almost a firearm for every man, women and child. Further by some counts as well the US has the highest crime rates in the world. So are guns really making us safe?

As to militas, I wonder if you referring to those like the now defunt Minute Men, you know members of that group broke into a house claiming it was a drug den, no drugs were found and members of the family living there were killed. The Minute Men also claimed they were in the country illegally, however all were natural born US citizens...yes if it was not for millitas like these guys, we would not be safe [:D]




TheHeretic -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 3:31:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

But for my money (and the jury that awarded penalties) the kids did NOT volunteer for that and were, in fact, exercising their 2nd amendment rights while a thug with a badge attacked them with chemical weaponry.



That would be the 1st Amendment you are thinking of, JeffBC. If they had been exercising the rights guaranteed by the 2nd, we'd have a whole different set of pictures.

The two may have put before the states in a joint action of Congress, and ratified in the same package deal, but they say very different things.





jlf1961 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/23/2012 3:31:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

The lst Admendment was adopted by Congress in 1789 the second admendment was adopted in 1791. So the two are very different and do not have anything to do with each other.



Bullshit. The Bill of Rights was submitted by a joint action of Congress in 1789, and ratified in 1791.

Why would you tell such a stupid lie?


Edit to add a link to what everybody should have learned in 6th Grade Civics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights


No bullshit, Fact.



Sorry the link proves it is bullshit




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