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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 5:48:44 AM

Nosathro

Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

The lst Admendment was adopted by Congress in 1789 the second admendment was adopted in 1791. So the two are very different and do not have anything to do with each other.

Bullshit. The Bill of Rights was submitted by a joint action of Congress in 1789, and ratified in 1791.

Why would you tell such a stupid lie?

Edit to add a link to what everybody should have learned in 6th Grade Civics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights

No bullshit, Fact.

Sorry the link proves it is bullshit

No it still BS. There is no evidence that either the congress in debating the second amendment nor Madison nor the Federalist Papers argued or proposed that the second amendment was needed to protect the first admendment. The contention that is presented by you is nothing more the propaganda not based on fact put rather paranoia designed to invoke a support through the creation of phobia.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 321

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 5:55:11 AM

Nosathro

Posts: 3319
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From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

No, they were showing why the 2nd amendment backs up the 1st amendment so when the government stops using pepper spray...like they did at kent state, waco, etc...

Kent State was back before pepper spray. There were several lawsuits filed in the Kent State shooting, however all were dismissed, on the film the juries heard the students yell "Charge" and run toward the National Guard who had warned them. There is no evidence that the 2nd Amendment was created to protect the 1st. The agruements for the 2nd Admendment were to counter tyrannical governments.

Thomas Jefferson would disagree, in fact he did

Show me the quote

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 322

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 5:58:23 AM

Nosathro

Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

No, they were showing why the 2nd amendment backs up the 1st amendment so when the government stops using pepper spray...like they did at kent state, waco, etc...

And by the way. It is true that the orginal incident did start with the ATF however the FBI took over right after that and we know how it ended. Also remember those Branch Davidians who survived went on trial for various crimes and were convicted.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 323

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 6:41:46 AM

Nosathro

Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I can tell you one way the money would become available...

If congress would stop spending money on a missile defense system that does not work.

Judging from your previous post are you saying that the missile defense system does not work due to the war heads only able to kill a few 100 thousand were you would say it works if the war head kills 100 million?

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 324

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 7:09:28 AM

LaTigresse

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Joined: 1/15/2006
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RE: any idea that the second amendment backs up the first amendment is hogwash.

It is quite obvious that guns create barriers and limit freedoms. Especially the freedom of speech. There was an excellent piece in the NYT, earlier this week or last, about that very issue.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 12/24/2012 7:10:18 AM >

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Nosathro)

Post #: 325

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 7:45:34 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/24/webster-new-york-firefighter-shot/1788917/

2 firefighters shot, killed at N.Y. fire
Victoria Freile and Doug Stanglin, USA TODAY10:37a.m. EST December 24, 20120
Firefighters allowed the fire to spread to two other houses until the area was secured

A gunman shot and killed at least two firefighters responding to a house fire at a Rochester suburb early Monday.

Two other firefighters were in guarded condition at Strong Memorial Hospital with gunshot wounds, according to a hospital spokeswoman, The Rochester Democrat and Chronicle reported.

The gunman was still at large at mid-morning. Fire Marshal Rob Boutillier said the blaze was allowed to spread to two other houses until the area is secured.

WHEC-TV reported that by mid-morning firefighters were attacking the blaze, which had spread to three homes and a vehicle.

The gunman open fire on the first firefighters to respond to the call around 5:45 a.m. ET, striking one in the backside.

A SWAT team escorted some residents to a bus that took them from the neighborhood.

So another four dead, doing their jobs...helping OTHER people..
Howmany dead since Sandy hook by guns ?? what nine days and over 110...
And you wonder why people are fed up of all the ignorance and arrogance of gun "nuts"?

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(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 326

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 8:54:28 AM

Powergamz1

Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
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Freedom from such fears, or freedom from being offended, or freedom from having to be tolerant of differences, are mores.
When a society progresses beyond the point of legislating those negative 'rights' (always in favor of the upper classes), it is considered a good thing in some quarters. With such progress comes negative consequences.
It is a 3 dimensional world. The question is how to balance, not how to return to the comfort of pre-Wellingon days.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven

"Individuals entering into society, must give up a share of liberty to preserve the rest. The magnitude of the sacrifice must depend as well on situation and circumstance, as on the object to be obtained."

Most of the gun-convos I've ever seen have centred on what are called 'positive freedoms' - freedoms to do X or Y. This omits (deliberately or otherwise) 'negative freedoms' - freedom *from* X or Y. Me, a few days ago, at around midnight, I walked home through an unlit park in a town centre carrying roughly two hundred pounds of shopping. I had no fear of anyone pulling a gun on me. Such a fear is rare in the UK, natch.

_____________________________

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Post #: 327

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 8:55:13 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

And you wonder why people are fed up of all the ignorance and arrogance of gun "nuts"?

If by "gun nuts" you mean people like this firefighter shooter and the crew frothing at the mouth about AR-15s being assault weapons, I agree with you one hundred percent.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/24/2012 8:58:14 AM >

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 328

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 8:56:27 AM

Powergamz1

Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline

No, we wonder how any human being can find such schadenfreude in the deaths of other humans as to use the body count to score points online.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/24/webster-new-york-firefighter-shot/1788917/

2 firefighters shot, killed at N.Y. fire
Victoria Freile and Doug Stanglin, USA TODAY10:37a.m. EST December 24, 20120
Firefighters allowed the fire to spread to two other houses until the area was secured

A gunman shot and killed at least two firefighters responding to a house fire at a Rochester suburb early Monday.

Two other firefighters were in guarded condition at Strong Memorial Hospital with gunshot wounds, according to a hospital spokeswoman, The Rochester Democrat and Chronicle reported.

The gunman was still at large at mid-morning. Fire Marshal Rob Boutillier said the blaze was allowed to spread to two other houses until the area is secured.

WHEC-TV reported that by mid-morning firefighters were attacking the blaze, which had spread to three homes and a vehicle.

The gunman open fire on the first firefighters to respond to the call around 5:45 a.m. ET, striking one in the backside.

A SWAT team escorted some residents to a bus that took them from the neighborhood.

So another four dead, doing their jobs...helping OTHER people..
Howmany dead since Sandy hook by guns ?? what nine days and over 110...
And you wonder why people are fed up of all the ignorance and arrogance of gun "nuts"?

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 329

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 9:13:56 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

Its not fucking schadenfreude, its disgust and fucking sadness over all the bullshit. and people dick waving and chest thumping over their "gun rights" while people loose their lives over an idiot with a gun.
I take fuck all pleasure in it.

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Post #: 330

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 9:19:54 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

And you wonder why people are fed up of all the ignorance and arrogance of gun "nuts"?

If by "gun nuts" you mean people like this firefighter shooter and the crew frothing at the mouth about AR-15s being assault weapons, I agree with you one hundred percent.

K.

nah Im talking about nuts claiming more guns are needed and a cop in every school, and arming five year olds, teachers, etc etc. Denying SOMETHING has to be done...claiming their little toys are harmless ...and everyone will move to bombs if they get their guns restricted.

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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 331

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 9:41:16 AM

Moonhead

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Joined: 9/21/2009
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I've never understood this bomb argument. It takes a certain amount of knowledge (at least enough to follow a cookbook) to build a bomb or manufacture gas. The effort involved is going to dissuade a lot of people who feel they need a gun in their pocket before they even dare say "boo!" to a goose. Anybody who thinks otherwise is probably defending their right to keep a gun to hand because they fear that everybody else out there is an evil genius who makes Lex Luthor look like Joey Deacon.
Mind you, if I was that paranoid, I'd definitely want to keep a gun in my pocket...

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(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 332

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 9:45:16 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

nah Im talking about nuts claiming more guns are needed and a cop in every school, and arming five year olds, teachers, etc etc. Denying SOMETHING has to be done...claiming their little toys are harmless ...and everyone will move to bombs if they get their guns restricted.

Nobody said anything about arming 5-year olds, and nobody ever said any firearm was harmless. I mean, seriously. There is nobody on either side of the argument who is not outraged by these events. But the question, as I see it, is what can we do that will have a mitigating effect on the availability of weapons to these psycho few without impinging on the rights of an overwhelmingly vast majority of law-abiding citizens. Some people only seem to want to ask what can we do, period.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/24/2012 10:06:26 AM >

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 333

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 10:21:06 AM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I can tell you one way the money would become available...

If congress would stop spending money on a missile defense system that does not work.

Judging from your previous post are you saying that the missile defense system does not work due to the war heads only able to kill a few 100 thousand were you would say it works if the war head kills 100 million?

For one thing, a missile defense system does not kill people.

In this case I am saying it does not work because it wont intercept missiles.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Nosathro)

Post #: 334

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 10:22:06 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
Judging from your previous post are you saying that the missile defense system does not work due to the war heads only able to kill a few 100 thousand were you would say it works if the war head kills 100 million?

He's saying the missile defense system does not work because it fails to defend against missile attacks. In other words, our politicians are lining the pockets of their friends by investing in a loser defense system.

_____________________________

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officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Nosathro)

Post #: 335

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 10:23:16 AM

Politesub53

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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

For one thing, a missile defense system does not kill people.

In this case I am saying it does not work because it wont intercept missiles.

But it does work, as seen in Israel recently.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 336

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 10:30:31 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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Back to cops in schools.
Here, they're called School Resource Officers. They're carefully chosen.
They get there early and sit in front of the school with the lights on to remind commuters to slow down (they rarely write a ticket because they're visible instead of hiding behinf a billboard with a RADAR gun)
Then they go into the school and basically "Walk a beat". There have been studies shown that when a cop gets out of a car and walks around and meets people in the community, they're more efficient and seen as "one of us" instead of "one of them". that car is a barrier between us and them.
Believe it or not, some of the kids actually LIKE their SRO and they'been known to trust him enough to tell him things they wouldn't tell others. This is a good resource.
A few of the kids in our local high schools have actually decided to become an LEO because of meeting their SRO and seeing him as "One of Us".
I support having an SRO not because of the one in a trazillion chance they would prevent a massacre but because of the near certainty that they will give the next generation a healthy respect for the law and those professionals who work hard to enforce it.

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Post #: 337

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 10:39:19 AM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

For one thing, a missile defense system does not kill people.

In this case I am saying it does not work because it wont intercept missiles.

But it does work, as seen in Israel recently.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the system that is planned for the east coast is the same system that is on the west coast, and they DO NOT WORK.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 338

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 10:59:54 AM

Moonhead

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Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

Aren't they talking about volunteers rather than trained 9and evidently competent) SROs, though?
That's surely going to be just asking for trouble.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 339

RE: All things gun control go here - 12/24/2012 11:04:55 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Aren't they talking about volunteers rather than trained 9and evidently competent) SROs, though?
That's surely going to be just asking for trouble.

What I saw was pushing for a cop in each school.
Unfortunately, their training for firefights lacks a lot but I see it more as public relations than prevent the one in a trazillion massacre.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 340

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