RE: All things gun control go here

RE: All things gun control go here (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 11:08:12 AM)
Hopefully the standards have been raised to that now, but right after the shootings, there was a lot of blather about "armed volunteers", which is fucking hysterical when you consider how stringently they vet anybody else who's going to work around kids, isn't it?

Hillwilliam -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 11:30:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Hopefully the standards have been raised to that now, but right after the shootings, there was a lot of blather about "armed volunteers", which is fucking hysterical when you consider how stringently they vet anybody else who's going to work around kids, isn't it? Likewise arming teachers. Face it, not one person in 10 has the ability to look someone in the eyes, point a weapon at them obtain a steady and clear sight picture with the safety off and be prepared to shoot. Forcing those people to carry is worse than ludicrous.

jlf1961 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 11:55:04 AM)
I said this before and I will say it again, and my plan will save money. 1) Bring all troops stationed overseas back to the US. Closing those bases will save money 2) Take the surplus troops and put them in our schools, and patrolling the mexican border.

PeonForHer -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 11:58:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead I've never understood this bomb argument. I never got that either, till I began to grasp how much pro-gunners buy into the 'where there's a will, there's a way' argument: ('if he hadn't killed with a gun, he'd have killed with a knife/bludgeon/bomb/whatever'). There seems to be a psychological assumption behind it that motive always precedes means rather than vice versa.

PeonForHer -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 12:09:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Face it, not one person in 10 has the ability to look someone in the eyes, point a weapon at them obtain a steady and clear sight picture with the safety off and be prepared to shoot. Forcing those people to carry is worse than ludicrous. Really, this idea is frigging insane. I mean, picture it: you have an armed man in a school who, one hopes, will act, day to day, in such a way as not to traumatise the kids in the short term, nor inculcate a fearful and violent culture in the long term, just by his presence. So, he acts gently and never, ever draws his gun unless he's certain - because, the one time he draws it by mistake on some kid who has water pistol and makes all the kids rush home screaming and in tears, the parents will demand an end to his services. On the other hand, unless he's ready to shoot to kill - and (cf the Connecticut case) kill a child, to boot - at an instant's notice - he's not of much use in the job.

Powergamz1 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 12:29:49 PM)
The original call was for POST certified sworn police officers. That has been backpedalled to calling for a bunch of George Zimmermans in every school. [8\|] quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Aren't they talking about volunteers rather than trained 9and evidently competent) SROs, though? That's surely going to be just asking for trouble.

Powergamz1 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 12:31:19 PM)
That is simply not believable. quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Its not fucking schadenfreude, its disgust and fucking sadness over all the bullshit. and people dick waving and chest thumping over their "gun rights" while people loose their lives over an idiot with a gun. I take fuck all pleasure in it.

Hillwilliam -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 12:32:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Face it, not one person in 10 has the ability to look someone in the eyes, point a weapon at them obtain a steady and clear sight picture with the safety off and be prepared to shoot. Forcing those people to carry is worse than ludicrous. Really, this idea is frigging insane. I mean, picture it: you have an armed man in a school who, one hopes, will act, day to day, in such a way as not to traumatise the kids in the short term, nor inculcate a fearful and violent culture in the long term, just by his presence. So, he acts gently and never, ever draws his gun unless he's certain - because, the one time he draws it by mistake on some kid who has water pistol and makes all the kids rush home screaming and in tears, the parents will demand an end to his services. On the other hand, unless he's ready to shoot to kill - and (cf the Connecticut case) kill a child, to boot - at an instant's notice - he's not of much use in the job. Aren't you basically agreeing with me? As for the rest of your post, you just described what cops do EVERY FUCKING DAY.

Lucylastic -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 12:33:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 That is simply not believable. quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Its not fucking schadenfreude, its disgust and fucking sadness over all the bullshit. and people dick waving and chest thumping over their "gun rights" while people loose their lives over an idiot with a gun. I take fuck all pleasure in it. That is just your opinion. Matters not one whit.

Powergamz1 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 12:42:18 PM)
And yet it matters enough for you to keep flinging dishonest debate tricks to derail any and all discussion of possible rational solutions. quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 That is simply not believable. quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Its not fucking schadenfreude, its disgust and fucking sadness over all the bullshit. and people dick waving and chest thumping over their "gun rights" while people loose their lives over an idiot with a gun. I take fuck all pleasure in it. That is just your opinion. Matters not one whit.

Moonhead -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 12:45:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 The original call was for POST certified sworn police officers. That has been backpedalled to calling for a bunch of George Zimmermans in every school. he was the first thing that went through my mind when they started blathering about armed volunteers as well, to be honest.

Politesub53 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 12:47:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 I've posted dozens of times recently about the actual scientific, medical, rational, search for solutions to the issue, and all you've done is try to derail any and all talk of a real world solution with the usual gleeful name calling and jingoistic hatemongering that feeds into such killings. Errrr no you havent and no I havent. If you mean gun killings you are wrong. If you are still on about chocolate, I will repeat myself. Your notion I keep posting about chocolate is a lie, as I have already stated yesterday. If I am wrong, quote me. If not then stfu.

Moonhead -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 12:47:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I never got that either, till I began to grasp how much pro-gunners buy into the 'where there's a will, there's a way' argument: ('if he hadn't killed with a gun, he'd have killed with a knife/bludgeon/bomb/whatever'). There seems to be a psychological assumption behind it that motive always precedes means rather than vice versa. Well, do you really expect them to admit that there's a lot of killings that wouldn't happen if the killer wasn't tooled up?

epiphiny43 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 12:52:27 PM)
Those supporting armed guards in schools might do well to examine the hit-to-miss ratio of working policemen in street gunfights. The missed shots would be out in the schools with we assume at least a few innocent students? The cost of training to above the known abysmal shooting skills of the average LEO becomes that much more indigestible for financially stressed school districts. Retired but physically competent combat veterans would have to do better? Who then need a lot of police training to handle the daily public encounters. As one post above suggests, school shooting are remarkably rare (Bazillion?) on a statistical basis and gun violence in schools generally has been on a decline since before WWII. It's the perception of danger produced by the media that is the most threatening of the whole situation. With enough fear in a society, it's responses to everything become irrational. Enough stupid moves and the culture implodes to chaos.

Nosathro -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 1:00:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I said this before and I will say it again, and my plan will save money. 1) Bring all troops stationed overseas back to the US. Closing those bases will save money 2) Take the surplus troops and put them in our schools, and patrolling the mexican border. I can see on problem...using US Troops in schools, it is unconstitutional to use US Troops against US citiziens...so if another attack happens like this one, the Troops will just stand there and do nothing. Outside of Afghanistan and Iraq, there is a brigade in Africa, two division in Europe as our NATO comment and one division in Korea, there are also some small units in other countries. I am not including the Navy. I also believe we have agreements with Mexico not to post US troops on the border. So to accomplish what you want there would be some real serious changes before a single soldier could be posted at a school or the US/Mexican border, and it take years for those changes to be approved...what happens in the mean time? Further what happen at Fort Hood, I think there would be alot of consideration on how effective your idea really would be....

Powergamz1 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 1:05:24 PM)
And the federal laws against that sort of thing? quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I said this before and I will say it again, and my plan will save money. 1) Bring all troops stationed overseas back to the US. Closing those bases will save money 2) Take the surplus troops and put them in our schools, and patrolling the mexican border.

Nosathro -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 1:07:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I can tell you one way the money would become available... If congress would stop spending money on a missile defense system that does not work. Judging from your previous post are you saying that the missile defense system does not work due to the war heads only able to kill a few 100 thousand were you would say it works if the war head kills 100 million? For one thing, a missile defense system does not kill people. In this case I am saying it does not work because it wont intercept missiles. We did not build the ABM system and laser system is still expermental this also includes weapons platforms with missiles aimed at the earth with nuclear warheads, yes we will get the launch sites but also a few thousand more as well. Currently the only defenseive system is "you launch yours we well launch ours...."

Powergamz1 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 1:12:06 PM)
I'll let the obvious fact that fact that I've posted repeatedly about medical and social causes behind these mass killings be the proof that you are lying when you claim that I've never posted them. I'll let the inability of anyone to produce a single post of your's adding anything useful to the discussion, debunk the second lie. And I'll let your name calling in response to a polite request for rational discourse be your final word. quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 I've posted dozens of times recently about the actual scientific, medical, rational, search for solutions to the issue, and all you've done is try to derail any and all talk of a real world solution with the usual gleeful name calling and jingoistic hatemongering that feeds into such killings. Errrr no you havent and no I havent. If you mean gun killings you are wrong. If you are still on about chocolate, I will repeat myself. Your notion I keep posting about chocolate is a lie, as I have already stated yesterday. If I am wrong, quote me. If not then stfu.

Powergamz1 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 1:14:59 PM)
The irony is hard to miss. quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 The original call was for POST certified sworn police officers. That has been backpedalled to calling for a bunch of George Zimmermans in every school. he was the first thing that went through my mind when they started blathering about armed volunteers as well, to be honest.

PeonForHer -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/24/2012 1:28:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Aren't you basically agreeing with me? Yes, I was. quote: As for the rest of your post, you just described what cops do EVERY FUCKING DAY. Not in elementary schools, they don't. Not even in the USA.

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