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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/26/2012 10:32:10 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

during the week after Newton there were three copy cats all killed by armed citizens the case is made


I cant seem to find any links to those. Care to provide them?

oregon mall shooting for one surley you can find that
and a theater in b'ham AL
there was another in a rural church my son saw it not me (he is 22)
I took your word for Philly schools locking up janitor closets

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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/26/2012 10:33:52 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

He served 17 years for killing his grandmother with a hammer. Our system is flawed. Gun control laws aren't going to solve the problem. Dealing with criminals, gang bangers and the mentally ill more appropriately will do more to prevent these acts than new laws will. I believe more laws will simply create a bigger black market for firearms, but won't stop the problem. They will only create more laws to break.




It seems to me keeping those who murder behind bars would be an easier fix than what ever it is we need to do concerning mental health. At least if they are behind bars they can't kill again.

Or maybe we can help the mentally ill BEFORE they kill.

that would require undoing the Catermental health "reforms"

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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/26/2012 10:56:31 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

that would require undoing the Catermental health "reforms"

Undoing...redoing...like I said, our whole system is flawed. Gun control laws may help a little, but they won't resolve the bigger problem.


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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/26/2012 11:17:44 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

during the week after Newton there were three copy cats all killed by armed citizens the case is made


I cant seem to find any links to those. Care to provide them?

oregon mall shooting for one surley you can find that
and a theater in b'ham AL
there was another in a rural church my son saw it not me (he is 22)
I took your word for Philly schools locking up janitor closets


The Mall shooter killed himself after killing 2 others.

Birmingham the police shot the killer after he shot another officer and two employees.

The church I have no clue about.

These two werent stopped by "armed citizens" unless you want to count the shooter and the police as "armed citizens".


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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/26/2012 11:28:54 PM   
punisher440


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

during the week after Newton there were three copy cats all killed by armed citizens the case is made


I cant seem to find any links to those. Care to provide them?

oregon mall shooting for one surley you can find that
and a theater in b'ham AL
there was another in a rural church my son saw it not me (he is 22)
I took your word for Philly schools locking up janitor closets

You really need to research before making such statements as these 3 falsehoods.
1)The Oregon mall shooting was before the Sandy Hook shooting and the gunman shot himself.So unless you want to claim the gunman as an armed citizen,this one doesn't count.....
2) The only theater shooting anywhere in Alabama where anyone was killed I have found is this one in Tuscaloosa,Al back in 2011 and the shooter is in custody alive.So I do not think he was killed by an armed citizen.There was a shooting outside a theater in Trussvilla,Al. in Oct of this year but no one was injured and the 15 year old was arrested.
3)The only rural church shooting I have found recertly was in Frankstown township in Pa.,3 victims killed and the shooter shot by cops after he rammed a cop car head on.Again...it was not an armed citizen that ended this.

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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/26/2012 11:43:03 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		1) you are right... December 11

2) http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/12/gunman_killed_after_firing_sho.html

The Alabama shooting.... December 15, 2012




_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 486
RE: All things gun control go here - 12/27/2012 4:40:47 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
Over here I have the right to protect myself. I also have the right to tell the government to kiss my ass if I choose. All without being kidnaped and beaten until I fall in line.

Try telling that to David Koresh.


You don't really want to use him as an example do you?

Why not? He seems a pretty fair example of somebody who didn't have the right to tell the government to kiss his arse.

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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/27/2012 6:58:57 AM   
LizDeluxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
And, apparently, most of the guns found/collected/confiscated across the US/Mexican border in these gun battles originate from the US, not the other way round as some like to think.

As for my facts, they came from our opposition leader (Ed Milliband) and from Michael Bloomberg's speech on gun crimes.
One has to assume, that being aired on international TV they would have done some research on the matter.


The statement in bold face is clinically correct but very misleading.

Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth

Seems Milliband and Bloomberg aren't really interested in the truth - just the facts. They are often not the same.

You really believe everything you see on television without researching it yourself? Really?

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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/27/2012 7:31:29 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
And, apparently, most of the guns found/collected/confiscated across the US/Mexican border in these gun battles originate from the US, not the other way round as some like to think.

As for my facts, they came from our opposition leader (Ed Milliband) and from Michael Bloomberg's speech on gun crimes.
One has to assume, that being aired on international TV they would have done some research on the matter.


The statement in bold face is clinically correct but very misleading.

Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth

Seems Milliband and Bloomberg aren't really interested in the truth - just the facts. They are often not the same.

You really believe everything you see on television without researching it yourself? Really?

Nice informative article. ty

There are those on both sides of the aisle who want the American public to believe the 90% figure.
The D side wants everyone up in arms and willing to ban sales of weapons.
The R side wants to use it to show how porous the border is and discredit Obama and Holder.

Turns out both sides are full of shit. What a concept.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 12/27/2012 7:37:33 AM >

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Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/27/2012 9:01:23 AM   
blacksword404


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
Over here I have the right to protect myself. I also have the right to tell the government to kiss my ass if I choose. All without being kidnaped and beaten until I fall in line.

Try telling that to David Koresh.


You don't really want to use him as an example do you?

Why not? He seems a pretty fair example of somebody who didn't have the right to tell the government to kiss his arse.


The government used flash grenades on that compound. I specifically remember seeing something on the news whith a government agent claiming flash grenades don't start fires. So the government wasn't responsible for the fire that burned the compound down.

Fact is flash grenades have caused fires. So David koresh in some people's mind is another reason to stay armed. Less the government burn your house down to serve a warrant.


_____________________________

Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

Genuine catnip/kryptonite.
Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/27/2012 9:10:01 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
The government used flash grenades on that compound. I specifically remember seeing something on the news whith a government agent claiming flash grenades don't start fires. So the government wasn't responsible for the fire that burned the compound down.

Fact is flash grenades have caused fires. So David koresh in some people's mind is another reason to stay armed. Less the government burn your house down to serve a warrant.

How does staying armed stop the govt in any way, shape or form??? they have much more manpower & weapons.. sheesh, they invade other countries.. what chance does an American or group of Americans stand?

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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/27/2012 9:42:25 AM   
slvemike4u


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From: United States
Status: offline 		In reality none TJ

But in concept they can wrap themselves in the Second,of course having done so,and subsequently being shot to death as a result,their survivors will then claim excessive use of force by the authorities.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/27/2012 9:58:16 AM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

In reality none TJ

But in concept they can wrap themselves in the Second,of course having done so,and subsequently being shot to death as a result,their survivors will then claim excessive use of force by the authorities.

Because 9 Bradleys, a tank, a bunch of helicopters, cs gas, torching the place and killing 19 men, 34 women and 23 children isn't excessive force?

I agree Koresh was crazy, but I remember watch the event as it unfolded and it was horrifying.

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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/27/2012 10:55:22 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
How does staying armed stop the govt in any way, shape or form??? they have much more manpower & weapons.. sheesh, they invade other countries.. what chance does an American or group of Americans stand?


Bingo.

One hundred 30 round mags feeding 10 assault rifles ain't going to do it regarding our (so it seems) 'right' to shoot at our government, and one clip for a 9mm is all that would be needed for intruders.


< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/27/2012 10:57:19 AM >

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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/27/2012 11:01:32 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
Over here I have the right to protect myself. I also have the right to tell the government to kiss my ass if I choose. All without being kidnaped and beaten until I fall in line.

Try telling that to David Koresh.


You don't really want to use him as an example do you?

Why not? He seems a pretty fair example of somebody who didn't have the right to tell the government to kiss his arse.


The government used flash grenades on that compound. I specifically remember seeing something on the news whith a government agent claiming flash grenades don't start fires. So the government wasn't responsible for the fire that burned the compound down.

Fact is flash grenades have caused fires. So David koresh in some people's mind is another reason to stay armed. Less the government burn your house down to serve a warrant.


Because of course, the government was really intimidated by the Brnach Davidian's stash of weaponry. Iirc, that was the excuse they used to burn down the compound in the first place, wasn't it?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 495
RE: All things gun control go here - 12/27/2012 11:04:05 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		They burned it down to save the abused women and children....thank you Janet Reno...

/end sarcasm/

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Profile   Post #: 496
RE: All things gun control go here - 12/27/2012 11:05:37 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

In reality none TJ

But in concept they can wrap themselves in the Second,of course having done so,and subsequently being shot to death as a result,their survivors will then claim excessive use of force by the authorities.

Because 9 Bradleys, a tank, a bunch of helicopters, cs gas, torching the place and killing 19 men, 34 women and 23 children isn't excessive force?

I agree Koresh was crazy, but I remember watch the event as it unfolded and it was horrifying.

Of course its excessive, but that is the same way the US govt invades other countries.. they are going in no matter what.. if they do that with other soverign countries, what chance do you (even being an American) have?

And frequently there is no real basis for the warrants in the various raids, with Ruby Ridge, the whole thing started based on false & outrageous allegations/tips from someone bent on revenge against Weaver.. that whole rat-on-your-neighbor thing the govt promotes creates that behavior, imo.. and once that ball gets rolling, it becomes uncontrollable and unpredictable and leading to these events..

Personally, I think it can happen again, and easier than most think.. A few years ago I had a speeding fine in one county which I paid, i checked the county website a month later and it told me my balance was then $0, but it turns out that they never actually cancelled it and I suspect there was a warrant against me that was not cancelled as it should have been.. again it had been paid years earlier, but I only found out cuz Motor Vehicles refused to give me a DL until "I paid the fine" that I didnt even owe.. when I called the county to find out what the heck was going on, I was told it was a "computer error".. that same thing can happen to anyone, and someone having a gun (or several) and wanting to resist arrest on a warrant that should have been cancelled (or never issued) could easily have it escalate into a fire fight.. so if they find out later it was a "computer error", if you are dead you are dead.. and the govt just says oooppps!

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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/27/2012 11:09:10 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
How does staying armed stop the govt in any way, shape or form??? they have much more manpower & weapons.. sheesh, they invade other countries.. what chance does an American or group of Americans stand?


Bingo.

One hundred 30 round mags feeding 10 assault rifles ain't going to do it regarding our (so it seems) 'right' to shoot at our government, and one clip for a 9mm is all that would be needed for intruders.


I do wonder what all of these manly iconoclastic survivalists have been doing about the "unelected" usurper in the white house. Seems that they're just writing the occasional death threat and whining like all of the other libertarian bitches.
If armed resistance to the government is their sole excuse for their arsenals they can find in the constitution, maybe they should make an effort to start walking the walk as well as talking the talk.


_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 498
RE: All things gun control go here - 12/27/2012 11:09:26 AM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
The government used flash grenades on that compound. I specifically remember seeing something on the news whith a government agent claiming flash grenades don't start fires. So the government wasn't responsible for the fire that burned the compound down.

Fact is flash grenades have caused fires. So David koresh in some people's mind is another reason to stay armed. Less the government burn your house down to serve a warrant.

How does staying armed stop the govt in any way, shape or form??? they have much more manpower & weapons.. sheesh, they invade other countries.. what chance does an American or group of Americans stand?


The same kind you have when the government puts dogs on you, beats you with batons. Sprays you with high power water hoses. There is only so much bloodshed people are willing to endure. And there is only so much that most people are willing to dish out. When you stand in a pool of your own countrymen's blood you will have had your fill.

_____________________________

Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

Genuine catnip/kryptonite.
Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

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RE: All things gun control go here - 12/27/2012 11:11:47 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
There is only so much bloodshed people are willing to endure.

Horseshit.
If you endured a recount being stopped illegally and an unelected President being sworn in and spending two terms accusing anybody who complained about his behaviour of treason, then you'll endure any indignity at all.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to blacksword404)
Profile   Post #: 500
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