quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont see it as damaging. We have more guns.... we also have more deterents. Outside of your desire to imply (yes, imply) that more guns have not caused an increase, I see many different factors that have caused a major reduction, none of them having to do with more guns in citizens hand. So if crime was reduced by over half because of all those deterrents, yet those deterrents were known to cause a majority of the crime, why is it still as high as it is?

Dont wave a banner estatically that the murder rate is only 4.7. Start questioning why its still that high despite all the attempts to bring it even lower.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

you are talking out of your ass about the british crime stats....

not according to british home office stats

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The above explains why the rate in the US was cut on half.... yet you are implying that, by your theory, if gun ownership causes less crime, then we should be at damn near zero. Fact is, murders are back at the 1960's level... when there was far less gun ownership.. yet far higher lead use and abortions.

Reduce causes... yet murders are at the same rate.... hmmm... something is a direct result.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Actually, those stats are not neccessarily accurate... in the other direction though.

Professor Ken Pease, former acting head of the Home Office's police research group, and Professor Gary Farrell of Loughborough University, estimated in 2007 that the BCS was underreporting crime by about 3 million incidents per year due to its practice of arbitrarily capping the number of crimes one can be victimised by in a given year at five... If true the error means that violent crime might actually stand at 4.4 million incidents per year, an 82% increase over the 2.4 million previously thought. Since the five crimes per person cap has been consistent since the BCS began this might not affect the long-term trends, however it takes little account of crimes such as domestic violence, figures for which would allegedly be 140% higher without the cap.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Crime_Survey

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

you are talking out of your ass about the british crime stats....

not according to british home office stats

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The above explains why the rate in the US was cut on half.... yet you are implying that, by your theory, if gun ownership causes less crime, then we should be at damn near zero. Fact is, murders are back at the 1960's level... when there was far less gun ownership.. yet far higher lead use and abortions.

Reduce causes... yet murders are at the same rate.... hmmm... something is a direct result.

quote:

hmm and 20 years ago the murder rate was twice what it is now while dropping it would pass through and in the sixties abortion was still against the law in many states it didn't become a natiional pastime till the 70's

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The above explains why the rate in the US was cut on half.... yet you are implying that, by your theory, if gun ownership causes less crime, then we should be at damn near zero. Fact is, murders are back at the 1960's level... when there was far less gun ownership.. yet far higher lead use and abortions.

Reduce causes... yet murders are at the same rate.... hmmm... something is a direct result.

I specifically stated that the drop alone does not prove that more guns=less crime once again you are reading what you want me to have said rather than what I actually said

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

hmm and 20 years ago the murder rate was twice what it is now while dropping it would pass through and in the sixties abortion was still against the law in many states it didn't become a natiional pastime till the 70's

Exactly.

Abortion....

We offer evidence that legalized abortion has contributed significantly to recent crime reductions. Crime began to fall roughly 18 years after abortion legalization. The 5 states that allowed abortion in 1970 experienced declines earlier than the rest of the nation, which legalized in 1973 with Roe v. Wade. States with high abortion rates in the 1970s and 1980s experienced greater crime reductions in the 1990s. In high abortion states, only arrests of those born after abortion legalization fall relative to low abortion states. Legalized abortion appears to account for as much as 50 percent of the recent drop in crime.

http://www.bepress.com/cgi/viewpdf.cgi?article=1028&context=blewp&preview_mode=

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

*The number of police officers increased considerably in the 1990s.[8]

*The prison population has been expanded since the mid-1970s.[8]

*Starting in the mid-1980s, the crack cocaine market grew rapidly before declining again a decade later. Some authors have pointed towards the link between violent crimes and crack use.[8]

*One hypothesis suggests a causal link between legalized abortion and the drop in crime during the 1990s.[9]

*Another hypothesis suggests reduced lead exposure as the cause; Scholar Mark A.R. Kleiman writes: "Given the decrease in lead exposure among children since the 1980s and the estimated effects of lead on crime, reduced lead exposure could easily explain a very large proportion—certainly more than half—of the crime decrease of the 1994-2004 period. A careful statistical study relating local changes in lead exposure to local crime rates estimates the fraction of the crime decline due to lead reduction as greater than 90 percent.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#Crime_over_time

Might wanna give another thought as to why crime dropped.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The above explains why the rate in the US was cut on half.... yet you are implying that, by your theory, if gun ownership causes less crime, then we should be at damn near zero. Fact is, murders are back at the 1960's level... when there was far less gun ownership.. yet far higher lead use and abortions.

Reduce causes... yet murders are at the same rate.... hmmm... something is a direct result.

I specifically stated that the drop alone does not prove that more guns=less crime once again you are reading what you want me to have said rather than what I actually said

Ok, then you explain why, with all the studies indicating cuts into the murder rates, why we still have the high rate of murder in this country?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

*The number of police officers increased considerably in the 1990s.[8]

*The prison population has been expanded since the mid-1970s.[8]

*Starting in the mid-1980s, the crack cocaine market grew rapidly before declining again a decade later. Some authors have pointed towards the link between violent crimes and crack use.[8]

*One hypothesis suggests a causal link between legalized abortion and the drop in crime during the 1990s.[9]

*Another hypothesis suggests reduced lead exposure as the cause; Scholar Mark A.R. Kleiman writes: "Given the decrease in lead exposure among children since the 1980s and the estimated effects of lead on crime, reduced lead exposure could easily explain a very large proportion—certainly more than half—of the crime decrease of the 1994-2004 period. A careful statistical study relating local changes in lead exposure to local crime rates estimates the fraction of the crime decline due to lead reduction as greater than 90 percent.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#Crime_over_time

Might wanna give another thought as to why crime dropped.

Lead.... crack.... I gave you a whole list. Didnt you read?

quote:

the average age of amerans is increasing that is a major cause of the drop in crime and yes I read just because I don't adress every word you say doesn't mean I didn't read it again you make assumtions about me with 0 evidence

quote:

then why was the crime rate in 92 double what it was in the 60's

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The government "controlling" which guns you can own isnt the complete answer. If DC had their way, there would be no hand guns allowed to be legally owned in DC. Who knows, the crime rate may have sky rocketed?

Gun owners controlling who gets their hands on their guns is a part of it too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And you still refuse to address the gun owners responsibilities. Figures.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You have not once addressed gun owner responsibilities. You have skirted the whole issue by saying how that wont stop all killings.

Address it for once.