RE: The decline of collarme

RE: The decline of collarme (Full Version)

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NuevaVida -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 2:41:39 PM)
Hillwilliam: No, I was quoting exactly what was posted at the time, which is apparently no longer there, strangely enough. Edited: I screwed up all the quotes in my edit and lost your original, accusing me of leaving things off your quote.

LadyPact -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 2:42:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Does anyone remember alt.com? 10 years ago, that place rocked. Just for the hell of it, I ran a check a few months ago for female subs of any age that had been active within the last 2 weeks within 50 miles. There were 12. It died. This place is not "Too big to fail" but if language is restricted to the point of nursery school, it might. Just catching this comment on the quick. The reason that Alt took a downturn is one of the very reasons that has been on this thread forty pages ago. Fet is a superior site for local groups and big events. Heck, I was on Alt years ago because it was the easiest way to connect with people in Atlanta. That is no longer true. On Fet, if a person wants to see what is going on this weekend at 1763, who's going, etc, the easiest place to find that information is Fet. It used to be Alt because Alt was all we had. Those same people had accounts here and posted in Upcoming Events. They don't do it anymore because Fet is the better way to organize something by location. Just the same as there used to be a time that a lot of the BDSM groups (munch groups) used yahoo groups to tell their members about events. Again, more convenient to make one post on Fet.

NuevaVida -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 2:44:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi quote: Last week there was a thread I posted on - by AthenaSurrenders, I think - about setting someone up to fail. I wrote a pretty lengthy post in it. A couple of days later I came back to the boards and it was gone. The Impossible Task by AthenaSurrenders was never pulled. Keyword searches can be buggy but username searches seem to work consistently well. That's how I found the thread. Thank you! I totally couldn't find it, even doing a search on my own name.

Aswad -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 2:52:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC Yeah, I'd considered the collateral damage angle too. But as a counter-balance, perhaps it'd serve as a place to collect all the folks who tend to this sort of drama so things would even out? As Orion said in #941, the net result will be the emergency of one clique which is tight with itself and everything bad that follows from this. The formation of such a clique is irreversible, as are the negative effects, once nucleation has begun. Eventually, it just tears shit apart. Some have levelled similar accusations at the Gorean section in the past, and this in spite of the level of internal disagreements there and the fact that that section only covered a narrow set of topics, with most posters there covering other topics on the rest of the board instead. quote: As much as I understand the impact of the way the mods use nukes to take out individual targets I don't see how allowing a playground atmosphere would encourage the sort of discussion I'd like to see more of. But for those who feel their voice is silenced by the mods for little shit I can see it working out.... far away from me. Yeah, getting rid of some noise would be nice, but I tend to think there's a balance between giving everyone detention and letting the classroom be a petting zoo, a balance which seems surprisingly hard for some to enact and surprisingly trivial for others to get just right (in my experience, those who get it right don't see it as a "how much" question, but a "how" question). IWYW, — Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 2:57:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Awad what do you think of the suggestion above? Post 956 I believe kdub... [;)] I think it's a nice, but ultimately unworkable, idea. The problem you'll run into is that the posters causing the thread to be put into the Maintenance section are going to continue posting in the same way they did to cause it to end up in there in the first place, while the moderator is performing the maintenance, causing the work ahead of them to grow while they're actually doing it, and also causing everyone to be faced with a thread that's constantly changing, including page boundaries shifting, etc. IWYW, — Aswad.

VideoAdminChi -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 3:03:45 PM)
Exactly, thanks Aswad.

VideoAdminChi -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 3:06:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi quote: Last week there was a thread I posted on - by AthenaSurrenders, I think - about setting someone up to fail. I wrote a pretty lengthy post in it. A couple of days later I came back to the boards and it was gone. The Impossible Task by AthenaSurrenders was never pulled. Keyword searches can be buggy but username searches seem to work consistently well. That's how I found the thread. Thank you! I totally couldn't find it, even doing a search on my own name. I don't always see these "where did the thread go?" questions - y'all should feel free to email me.

Aswad -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 3:19:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi. Exactly, thanks Aswad. You're welcome, of course. I should be clear that I'm aware of the difficulties of moderating a forum like this, and that my complaints are about policies, not people. That being said, I asked you a question some ten or so pages ago. Whiiine! [:D] IWYW, — Aswad.

Hillwilliam -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 3:22:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida Hillwilliam: No, I was quoting exactly what was posted at the time, which is apparently no longer there, strangely enough. Edited: I screwed up all the quotes in my edit and lost your original, accusing me of leaving things off your quote. I HATE it when I screw up the quotes and noone can tell who said what and it seems like no matter what you do, the site wont let you fix it.

kdsub -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 3:54:03 PM)
quote: The problem you'll run into is that the posters causing the thread to be put into the Maintenance section are going to continue posting in the same way they did to cause it to end up in there in the first place, while the moderator is performing the maintenance, causing the work ahead of them to grow while they're actually doing it, and also causing everyone to be faced with a thread that's constantly changing, including page boundaries shifting, etc. The moderator will have the name of the poster the complaint is made against... Otherwise why put it in the IN Moderation room to begin with... see what I mean? Very simple to stop that person from posting until the mod sorts things out... absolutely workable and simple. Butch

kdsub -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 3:58:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi Exactly, thanks Aswad. quote: Exactly, thanks Aswad. I am posting this to you as well "The moderator will have the name of the poster the complaint is made against... Otherwise why put it in the IN Moderation room to begin with... see what I mean? Very simple to stop that person from posting until the mod sorts things out... absolutely workable and simple." You will already know the troublemaker and it is very easy to put their posting on hold until the problem is settled.. You would not know to put it in the IN Moderation room without this information. You could also stop the person that complains as well until you know for sure it is a valid complaint... You will have to show me where this would not work just fine. Butch

tazzygirl -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 4:45:01 PM)
Have you considered that all those "Waiting Approvals" require someone to approve them? Two forums I have run were set up much like this one. I am supposing here they are set up the same, in case someone decides I am making actual claims that this is how this one is set up. You have different sections for different things. In the forums I ran, you could not pick and chose who could not post in a specific area. Its all areas, or none. I could open certain areas to certain people, such as administrators only. For example.... I could not decide you could only post in the off topic section, but I could decide if you could post in the Moderators section, it being open only to those who I decided needed to be there. For your idea to work... and I am assuming you meant to limit their abilities to only one area and not the rest, simply wasnt available on the platforms I was using. I could be wrong about CM. Just giving a reason why it may not be feasible here.

Aswad -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 4:51:38 PM)
Add a new category of volunteer mods to do the approvals and no other moderation? This suggestion entirely independent of kdsub's suggestion. IWYW, — Aswad.

LadyPact -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 5:01:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf I believe a few years ago that was done by the management then, and it was met with similar uproar and cries of injustice. It appeared to me that several popular posters were hit with it, and their friends got upset about it. It seems to be a yoyo thing, with new groups of "need to change this or the site will perish" attitudes that have caused issues in the past. I have apparently missed the plethora of disappearing topics and posts that are being discussed. I suppose the reason would be that I look at a discussion, and if jackasses are steering it to flames and off the actual subject, I just stop reading and usually do not contribute. Why should I post a rational and thoughtful post among a bunch of bashing each other, when time and experience has shown me it will just degenerate further away from the actual topic? If there are major issues happening, then I am all for hitting the person responsible, or a group if it is mob attack. I would also do some kind of three strike rule or something, as I have been reading along the lines of "if this gets pulled it was worth it to tell them off". Hello Orion. I hope you and your family are well. It's been a while. Herein lies the problem. It's time everybody got back into the bell curve, rather than on the outer ends of the spectrum. Embellishment on either side isn't constructive. I don't know what you would consider a plethora. When the majority of the activity on the message boards was on topics related to the Sandy Hook shooting, and they were subsequently closed and consolidated, that's significant. There were threads that were closed or removed in other sections as well during the same time period. It was more noticeable in other sections because many of us were on various P&R threads. This board very much reflected the focus of the nation. I think people forget why there was a Politics and Religion section created to begin with. Do people not remember when all of the political discussion went into Off Topic and broad categories, if they were based on the same issue, were messing with the "don't post repeated topics" guideline. Back then, if there were two different threads on abortion, both posts didn't always stay because both threads were about abortion. Didn't matter if one was about a Supreme Court decision and the other wanted to talk about insurance companies. It was all considered about abortion and therefore, a "duplicate" thread. I'm going to say this part just because the smart ass in Me is showing. Lots of us have said that a zinger every once in a great while is worth the gold mail. There's a difference between what are more or less, singular incidents and a pattern. If we're talking three times in a year, that's still a pretty decent batting average.

tazzygirl -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 5:06:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad Add a new category of volunteer mods to do the approvals and no other moderation? This suggestion entirely independent of kdsub's suggestion. IWYW, — Aswad. Doesnt seem like they have enough to do the job at hand as it is.

VideoAdminChi -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 5:21:45 PM)
quote: That being said, I asked you a question some ten or so pages ago. Whiiine! These? http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4345602 quote: Why do we have moderation of threads beyond strict legalities? Because enjoyment is impaired when the conversation is lost in a major shouting match, and people get hostile across threads with each other when there's a bunch of personal attacks flying around the place all the time. How do the current policies fit these goals? They don't. When thread enjoyment is reduced, even for a few posters, the whole thing gets nuked from orbit. The response varies between amputating an infected limb and euthanizing the patient, when the response could be to try antibiotics first. A simple "Behave, children!" from XI was usually sufficient. When not, people got put on moderation, which amounts to vaccination in the previous analogy, ensuring the cost was paid by the source(s) of the problem(s), rather than everyone else. In that environment, I don't want to be the one carefully debriding tissue when Jason and Leatherface descend on the limb with machete and chainsaw, respectively. Hell, I don't want to be near anything they might decide to lop off, cuz that just ain't gonna end well. When a thread starts to get interesting, it's like the orchestra starts humming ominously in the background and the foley guys start working the engines and the faux metal on scabbard things in the distance... you know what's coming. All because of a few posts. IWYW, — Aswad. I can answer "where's the thread?" sorts of questions but will have to refer policy questions to VAA. Maybe someone can start a new thread with highlights from this thread for her? I'm too biased to chose what I think are highlights [8D]

Aswad -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 5:54:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Doesnt seem like they have enough to do the job at hand as it is. Hence my suggestion of adding another mod group where the only requirement is "being able to tell the difference between a post and sewage with sufficient accuracy that we can justify saying «well, it's better than being gagged entirely, so shut up.» or something of the sort". After all, the whole point of putting someone on moderation is to stop them from pouring sewage onto the board; if you've been put on moderation, you can't really expect anyone to actually see your posts, anyway. IWYW, — Aswad.

jlf1961 -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 5:58:04 PM)
Okay, maybe another class of mods would help, but considering the venom of some posters both in the past and present, would cyber assassination teams be unrealistic?

Aswad -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 6:08:16 PM)
That's the one, Chi. The part you quoted is the crux of it for me: return on investment for posters that care, incentivizing positive contributions, penalizing negative ones, avoiding collective punishment and having a predictable environment in these regards. Other stuff like finding the right balance in terms of headroom, etc., I see as more a question of preferences, while these matters I see as make or break. Without commenting on unread messages, I'll just say this is my take on it after having had some time to reflect on these things, and if you or anyone else cares to carry the ball on this one, I've no objections to either the quoted part or the above paragraph; I've put the input out there, and won't pretend to speak for the rest of the board. IWYW, — Aswad.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: The decline of collarme (1/9/2013 6:13:28 PM)
So let me try and example and see if I have this right. Person X starts a thread. Many people participate. I participate and I am very involved. Person Y, Z and A start flaming each other. Moderator B moves thread to this new area. Now if I want to continue posting I have to post in this area while the flame war is going on and a moderator is trying to clean the topic. Is this what you are proposing? quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Orion please remember this is not a change to the existing forums... just a temporary place for a thread to go to be moderated without closing it down completely and loosing all the good posts. The rest is an option if you chose to participate. Myself I would not except to continue in a thread that I think important that under the rules today would be closed down. Let the ding bats that want to degrade each other have at it I don't care...do you? If they come back to the standard forum and make trouble then permanently get rid of them...simple and easier on the moderators too. Butch

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