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RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/18/2006 9:26:41 AM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

This, however, I did have to respond to. It is -exactly- this way in our household. We do not keep servants under our roof who are clearly a poor fit -- and it isn't just for the good of our household, either. Staying in a situation where a person is clearly unsuited is unhealthy for that person, too, and negatively impacts his or her self-perception, as well as promoting an internalization of "victimhood".


My thoughts exactly. I think that we are dearly missing his point of view, but based on the OP's I think that both are getting something out of the relationship or neither would of allowed it to continue this long.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/18/2006 9:30:13 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Why would you stay with a man who's obviously not into you anymore because you gained some weight? He sounds pretty superficial to me and he sounds like he has a hard time letting go of the past.  For your own good, I'd say its time to get more into you and less into him. Work on your on health and your own self esteem, once you start feeling better about yourself you will attract a new Master if that is what you truly want.
Life is too short to spend it being miserable.

Good luck,

~Lashra

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/18/2006 9:44:23 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

quote:

I don't even particularly agree with the general consensus of "Suck it up since you chose this." 

 
When I said that, I meant that if you are going to choose your lot in life, then live with it, or dont. I will use Erin's sig line: "When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train."


Erin's quote is very similiar to my personal feeling about Politics and Voting  - if you vote and your candidate wins, you have the right to bitch when he doesn't do as expected. If you vote and your candidate loses, you have the right to bitch because you didn't vote for him.  If you don't vote, don't bitch.
 
Unfortunately, taken in this specific type of situation, telling someone that they should quit bitching - they didn't vote - doesn't particularly ring true.  I agree that there are always choices.  This is, after all, a form of CONSENSUAL servitude - remove the consent or step outside the bounds of what was consented to, and it becomes abuse.  Making that choice, though - to walk away from a situation where we're being abused - can be one of the most difficult choices we ever make.  It is hard to say "I can't do this, I have to walk away" when what we want most in life is to make the person we're with happy.  The tendency to feel that there must  be something wrong with US - something more than simply we're a bad fit as partners - is a constantly looming issue.  When an abusive partner is involved, this is decidedly moreso the case, because they tend to Feed that misconception and encourage us to think that if we were simply more/better/faster/thinner/prettier/smarter (insert your character or physical trait of choice here) then the world would suddenly become some sort of utopian vision of halcyon perfection.
 
Oh - and I have to wonder.  If he was so damned happy with the various "ex" gf's and such that he's stayed in contact with - why are they Ex's?  Why did those relationships end, if they're still so interested in each other, that they remain in contact and still desire to see each other/play together/etc?  If it was simply a case of them acknowledging a poor fit, and moving on in a timely manner so they could remain friends - then why did HE choose not to take that route THIS time, with such a poor fit, and thereby at least keep things friendly? 
 
You and Bladewing are correct though in that we are distinctly missing a large piece of the puzzle - his point of view and thoughts on why things stand the way they do.  There's always her point of view, his point of view, and the Truth which inevitably lies somewhere between the two.

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(in reply to MistressOfGa)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/18/2006 9:53:18 AM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

quote:

I don't even particularly agree with the general consensus of "Suck it up since you chose this." 

 
When I said that, I meant that if you are going to choose your lot in life, then live with it, or dont. I will use Erin's sig line: "When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train."


Erin's quote is very similiar to my personal feeling about Politics and Voting  - if you vote and your candidate wins, you have the right to bitch when he doesn't do as expected. If you vote and your candidate loses, you have the right to bitch because you didn't vote for him.  If you don't vote, don't bitch.
 
Unfortunately, taken in this specific type of situation, telling someone that they should quit bitching - they didn't vote - doesn't particularly ring true.  I agree that there are always choices.  This is, after all, a form of CONSENSUAL servitude - remove the consent or step outside the bounds of what was consented to, and it becomes abuse.  Making that choice, though - to walk away from a situation where we're being abused - can be one of the most difficult choices we ever make.  It is hard to say "I can't do this, I have to walk away" when what we want most in life is to make the person we're with happy.  The tendency to feel that there must  be something wrong with US - something more than simply we're a bad fit as partners - is a constantly looming issue.  When an abusive partner is involved, this is decidedly moreso the case, because they tend to Feed that misconception and encourage us to think that if we were simply more/better/faster/thinner/prettier/smarter (insert your character or physical trait of choice here) then the world would suddenly become some sort of utopian vision of halcyon perfection.
 
Oh - and I have to wonder.  If he was so damned happy with the various "ex" gf's and such that he's stayed in contact with - why are they Ex's?  Why did those relationships end, if they're still so interested in each other, that they remain in contact and still desire to see each other/play together/etc?  If it was simply a case of them acknowledging a poor fit, and moving on in a timely manner so they could remain friends - then why did HE choose not to take that route THIS time, with such a poor fit, and thereby at least keep things friendly? 
 
You and Bladewing are correct though in that we are distinctly missing a large piece of the puzzle - his point of view and thoughts on why things stand the way they do.  There's always her point of view, his point of view, and the Truth which inevitably lies somewhere between the two.

I don't see her living in an abusive situation. Yes he lied to her, according to her, but I don't see that as abuse. He is just a liar. Why she stays is yet to be determined, like I said, they must both get something from this relationship. I didnt say she doesnt have the right to complain about it, but she knows how he is, and yet she is choosing to stay. She came here looking for validation as to whether a Master has the right to sneak around behind a slaves back, I told her my views on it, nothing more, nothing less.
 
Edited to add a <hug> I dont mean to come across as uncaring. Like I said, I am rather straight forward.

< Message edited by MistressOfGa -- 6/18/2006 9:55:29 AM >

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RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/18/2006 10:12:04 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

She came here looking for validation as to whether a Master has the right to sneak around behind a slaves back, I told her my views on it, nothing more, nothing less.


Actually - neither you nor anyone else has offered anything other than their honest opinion on the situation as she has described it.  There's no fault to be had in that by anyone.
 
*I made a leap of conjecture - due to my own personal failing - based on my personal history with a superficially similar situation.  Does this make her situation somehow definately abusive?  Not at all - for all we know, it could be anything but that.  There isn't sufficient evidence one way or the other, based solely on the few comments she has made and without having personally seen how they interact, to know whether it's the least bit abusive.  All I "know" is that when I was personally in a situation that was similar in these specific aspects, it was also abusive - and that's not nearly enough to base an actual determination on.

*edited to add - *grumblemuttergripebitchcomplain* I just Love it when the server gives me grief and makes me log back in before it'll accept a post - NOT! *

< Message edited by hizgeorgiapeach -- 6/18/2006 10:13:27 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/18/2006 12:01:44 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mew

....For "your" Master to do things behind your back such as, emailing old gf's, or talking to other women?  
As a slave, is it really none of your business if he does that, and keeps it a secret?  



I haven't read the entire thread, so this may be repetative...

I don't see anything wrong with either of these actions, whether you are in an M/s, D/s, poly, monogamous, or any other type of relationship.  An issue might arise with the intent behind these actions.  If the intent is just conversation and friendship, then no big deal.  If the intent is to undermine your relationship, then there might be a problem.

The big question is why is it a secret?  My Lord doesn't tell me about everybody he talks to, but it isn't a secret either.  If the topic comes up, then it does.  If not, then I may not hear about it.  In my opinion, a relationship is on shaky ground when one partner feels they have to hide something from the other.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/18/2006 12:25:51 PM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline
Lots of issues here eh?

For the most part, I am vehemently against dishonesty. And I very much view the withholding of information as dishonesty. Based on what you've said though, this is much more than just dishonesty. This is an entire relationship that is quickly sliding down the gutter and it's at that point where the participants are picking at the little things for the one-up.
War of the Roses anyone?

quote:

I came here to live with Master 6 yrs ago as his slave. The first 6 months were great, then things rapidly went downhill.

Why do you remain in this relationship with it the way it is?
Is the issue really his communication with other women? Or is the issue that you are in a relationship that isn’t working out?
quote:

I have been celebate for 5 yrs now, because I am fat and he is no longer interested in me sexually.

Celibate isn’t bad. It’s just different.
Has he told you it’s because you’re fat? Or are you assuming it?
Are your needs being met? If not, have you told him? Was anything done about it?
quote:

He has many ex g/f's, and seems to not be able to let go of them.

Let go of them how?
If they are ex girlfriends, then it stands to reason that he has let go of them as girlfriends. Are you expecting him to cut off his friendships? If so, why would you expect that of him?
quote:

He has told me about it most of the time, and I usually get very upset.

Why do you get upset?
quote:

There was a time a few yrs ago when I was so distraught due to his lying to me, that I did go through his email. I found things that I wish I had never read. Things he said to them that were very negative about me, and hurtful. I would comfront him, he would get angry with me, tell me it was none of my business, etc.

Shame on him for lying to you.
Shame on you for going through his email.
Shame on both of you for your lack of appropriate communication skills.
Why are the two of you still together if you are lying to each other and sneaking around invading one another’s privacy?
quote:

Last week another g/f emailed him, ( he told me about it) and wanted to come to our house for a visit, as she was coming to the area on business. I told him I was uncomfortable with it, and would rather she not come. He once again got angry, accusing me of being overly jealous, blah, blah, blah.

Another fine example of poor communication skills between the two of you. I really don’t see that he was doing anything wrong here. He (and this other woman) very much put their shit on the table for you. Based on what you’ve said, I get the impression that they were relating to one another as friends only. They were more than willing for you to be involved in that friendship. It was right there in front of you, in your home. No secrecy at all. If he can’t even have his friendships in your plain sight, in your home, and in essence, under your supervision, what the hell kind of friendships do you allow this man to have? And why is he answering to his slave about something as simple as friendships? Shame on you.
Now, on the other side of the coin. You explained to him that you were uncomfortable with something and his response instead of communicating and working through the problem, was to get angry at you. Shame on him.
quote:

Things escelated to the point of me telling him I was leaving.

Sounds like a good idea… for both of you.
quote:

I am a full time college student, and have only 10 months to go before I graduate. Due to the importance of my education, I decided to stay and try and stick it out for 10 more months.

Lots of options here.
Get your own apartment on a year lease. That’ll give you 2 extra months to find a job once you graduate.
Change the dynamics of this relationship while you’re still living in the home. Take it to Master/slave only. Or boyfriend/girlfriend only. Or simply friends. Or roommates. Move into a different bedroom if need be. Or start sacking out on the sofa.
This could actually be an opportunity for a smooth transition from 24/7 M/s to going separate ways, without having to cut into the hearts of those involved.
quote:

The ex g/f emailed us both and said that she was going to decline his invitation to visit because she did not want to get in the middle, and realized it made me uncomfortable.

I don’t blame her. I probably would have done the same thing.
I’m sure he’s probably pissed about it. After all, you won.
quote:

I have NOT snooped in his stuff, but my gut instinct ( call it women's intuition) tells me that he emailed her last night, and that they are planning to meet anyway while she is here behind my back.

I understand the gut instincts thing and I encourage people to listen to their gut. So let’s assume that what you suspect is true.
Keep in mind that these two people openly and honestly offered to get together right in front of you, in your home, and you said no. That leaves them 2 options. Meeting one another away from you (as you suspect they are doing and you’re not happy about) or not seeing each other while she’s in from out of town. Again I ask, why is it so important to you that he have no friendships?
You my dear are the one who eliminated his option of doing things forthright. You are the one who pissed on the idea of him being open and honest in front of you. You are the reason he is seeing her in private now.
quote:

If I ask him about this, he will lie to me, ( he has done it before), and then tell me I am accusing him of doing things he is not doing.

Probably. He knows if he tells you the truth you are going to get in an argument again. I don’t agree that lying is how he should handle it, but I can understand why he would lie. Until you move out, it is his path of least resistance in keeping his friends.
quote:

So, I was just wondering if it is appropriate, or as a slave, is it really none of my business if he meets her behind my back, even though he knows it will upset me.

Sounds to me like the Master/slave dynamic is way beyond gone. You’re obviously running the show. He acts based on how you will react. You’re the one in control.
It also sounds like any boyfriend/girlfriend dynamic is gone, if not soon ending, because you’ve already stated that you’re just hanging around at this point to finish up college.
Maybe give back the collars and rings, and both of you go about your lives without answering to one another.
Like Calandra said, it sounds like a relationship of mutually using each other until you finish school. That’s not necessarily a bad thing as long as it’s all out on the table and everyone agrees. Not even all roommates are close friends. Sometimes they’re just using each other for financial benefit.
quote:

I guess I should have known that I would be flamed and blasted for my post.

I didn’t see anyone flame and blast you. I saw people state the obvious. The truth hurts, but it doesn’t make it less true, nor does it make it an attack. No one said "You’re a stupid idiot." They said "Here is the situation I see and here’s what I think would be a good avenue to take care of the problem you’ve described." And some people pointed out that he is to blame for some of the problem and you are to blame for some of the problem. It’s a joint effort in a relationship. How do you get "flaming and blasting" out of that? Or was it that you needed validated and wanted us to say "Oh poor little innocent slave girl who has done nothing wrong. Your Master is an evil terrible man and yes you have every right to feel like a victim." No one is here to stroke your ego. What you fail to understand is that we are not stroking his ego either. We are a bunch of outsiders who see this situation, (from your point of view even) and have taken a diplomatic stance on what we perceive.
quote:

Yes I am whining and complaining. Yes I am jealous. Yes it is all MY fault that he is doing this. Yes it is MY fault that I am lied too, and disrespected. Yes it is MY fault that I am still here. Yes it is MY fault that I chose to get an education here.

Say it without whining, in a civilized tone, and you’ll find that much of what you just said is nothing but bare raw fact.
He’s no saint in this situation.
But darling, neither are you.
Part of maturity is owning up to mistakes so we don’t make them again.

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to mew)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/18/2006 6:16:16 PM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		Trust where is the trust and where is the respect.  Don't hear either and maybe i am wrong but...i believe both must be there for me as a sub and i would need it even more so as a slave.  Somehow it just doesn't seem quite like a Master/slave relationship but that is your business not mine.  In any event i can't imagine my telling a Dom what he can and can not do unless that is part of our committed relationship.  Hell my vanilla husband wouldn't put up with that.  Also my question is about the weight gain if neither of Y/you are happy with change it or find someone who will love you for who you are body, soul, heart and mind. 

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/18/2006 7:00:51 PM   
OneX2


Posts: 157
Joined: 1/3/2006
Status: offline 		The way you describe it I would say it is not your biz to know. If you snopped to get it, take it up with you master.

Joseph

(in reply to mew)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/18/2006 7:51:12 PM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		It depends, if you've gone into the agreement knowing his philosophy was that a master's buisness is none of his slaves buisness then yes it's true.

I don't subscribe to that belive but if you go into a relationship knowing he has those idea's then you've agreed to that philosphy.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/18/2006 8:05:50 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		~fast replay~

Personally I would have left before the first year was finished. not sure why you would stay if you were that unhappy. Then again I don't do well with long term celibacy or with being made to feel worthless. Even if you call yourself a slave. No one has the right to tear you apart. If you stay you're foolish. But it is your decision.

I'm sure i'm repeating what many others already have. Only you can change the circumstances with in the relationship. He's not going to change. You can choose to continue putting up with it or grow a some steel in your spine and leave.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/18/2006 9:30:29 PM   
BreakMeShakeMe


Posts: 339
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline 		A thought comes to mind here.... before you ask a question.. you better make damn sure you want to hear the answer.

As far as the OP's 2nd post.. the slightly more informative one.. (slightly because it's only one side of the situation being told).... I have to go with MoGa on this. And a few of the others. But as one who lives in flame suits... you were far from getting flamed. Hell didn't even feel the coals getting stoked there. Your relationship.. or lack of one... is like been over for over 5 years.... either shit or get off the pot there.  But trying to get someone to tell you... you were right in snooping through your ex master's private things... I don't see it happening. Now as to how I personally see it... if as you stated... there is no m/s relationship...and hasn't been for 5+ years... instead of pouting... go get laid.. might make ya feel better.


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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/18/2006 11:47:59 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		it sounds like you are really hurting, and really lonely....we have all been there....take care of yourself luv.....be good to yourself, first and the rest will fall into place.

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This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




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RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/19/2006 1:00:00 AM   
MasterKalif


Posts: 648
Joined: 5/24/2004
Status: offline 		wow...the starter of this thread sounds a lot like my vanilla ex, not much fun...
anywho...I am wondering what your Master gets out of that relationship....is he paying for college? or just allowing you to stay at his place?  I have to agree that it was wrong for him to lie to you (why should he) but you "spying" on him and his emails is just plain wrong... I also see major trust issues here. I have to agree with others...this is no longer an M/s relationship, but a simple vanilla, drama-led relationship (nothing against those who enjoy that).

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/19/2006 3:40:22 AM   
MasterStoney442


Posts: 39
Joined: 8/23/2005
Status: offline 		mew,
 
I will respond like this . " if" you are a slave ! Then you are your Masters PROPERTY. You have only the rights that your Master gives you . By snooping around at what your Master does is none of your business and you have gone against what being a slave is .
 
I would say to you . Define what a slave is to you .
 
I find that this really pisses me off when this is done . My slave is just that my slave to be that and live that and nothing Else . If and when she does what you have . She is doing nothing but stepping where she does not need to . As long as my slave is being taken care of and treated in a human manner , then that is all there is to that .
 
Yes I know there are alot of people that are going to disagree with me on what I have said ,but this is me and thats all there is to it .

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/19/2006 4:20:00 AM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		i have to ask who defines if she is taken care of?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterStoney442

mew,
 
I will respond like this . " if" you are a slave ! Then you are your Masters PROPERTY. You have only the rights that your Master gives you . By snooping around at what your Master does is none of your business and you have gone against what being a slave is .
 
I would say to you . Define what a slave is to you .
 
I find that this really pisses me off when this is done . My slave is just that my slave to be that and live that and nothing Else . If and when she does what you have . She is doing nothing but stepping where she does not need to . As long as my slave is being taken care of and treated in a human manner , then that is all there is to that .
 
Yes I know there are alot of people that are going to disagree with me on what I have said ,but this is me and thats all there is to it .

(in reply to MasterStoney442)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/19/2006 2:33:37 PM   
enigmabrat


Posts: 2383
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		Heres the thing...
are you just his slave or do you have a b/f g/f relationship as well

if your just his slave and only have a relationship when in BDSM then it really isnt your busyness I guess but if you are more then that and your relationship is more then Master slave then yes it is your busyness

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/19/2006 2:50:09 PM   
Taylore


Posts: 121
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mew

....For "your" Master to do things behind your back such as, emailing old gf's, or talking to other women?  
As a slave, is it really none of your business if he does that, and keeps it a secret? 
 


Speaking only from my own relationships;
 
If Master wishes to email, talk to, play with other girls, without me knowing, that is his choice to do so. However, he respects me enough to NOT do such things without first letting me know about them.
As for sex, again, if he chooses to have sex with another and not tell me, that is his choice. And once again, he respects me enough not to do so.
 
Often Master has told me that he is going to meet with another, what he will do to her, etc; in those instances, I have no say in what he chooses to do.  

_____________________________

Taylore

(in reply to mew)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/19/2006 3:28:48 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Some subs and slaves apparently do it so why not some masters and doms?

I know, I know, I know, honesty and integrity and all that but I wonder how many really do buy into that.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Is it appropiate..... - 6/19/2006 5:03:15 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mew

....For "your" Master to do things behind your back such as, emailing old gf's, or talking to other women?  
As a slave, is it really none of your business if he does that, and keeps it a secret? 

I've seen some really good answers to you re: this post.  You've been given some good information, some consolation and yes, a bit of rebuke but you have not come close to being flamed.

My perspective on this is from what you write here in your original post and your later one:
My biggest question to you is just what was involved in your negotiations?  Did you negotiate your right to know what he does/has done/is going to do with others?  If you did, then you really don't have much to say in this regard. 
Honesty...a difficult point.  I believe in it and don't have a problem with answering almost any question put forth to me by my submissive. But I have also told anyone who ever became my partner in a longer-term D/s relationship that I had put up with an ex who snooped through my stuff, right from the start of my marriage (hmmmmm, wonder what Freud would have to say about when I started letting her find stuff at the end) and I won't do that anymore.  I will be honest and trustworthy...it is important to me...but they always know that I reserve a certain amount of privacy.  That is me.  To me, the honesty comes in during my day to day life with them and in the fact that I would not do something outside of our relationship without making her aware of it and discussing what I may be considering.  That is one facet of my honesty.
CAVEAT  It does NOT necessarily mean it is anyone else's or that it has to be.  If he told you from the start that he considered your questioning him or being jealous of contact with others or that he intended to get involved with others or that how he chooses to live his life as a dominant/master is his business and not his slave's...and you accepted that...then how is he not being honest?

As for not being a slave anymore...perhaps you should learn more about what being a slave means.  Learn the basic concepts of it and then learn, from others and from within yourself, whether or not you want to go that route.

(in reply to mew)
Profile   Post #: 60
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