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RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 9:36:02 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline
Mods are only human, they make mistakes like
us all.
Whilst they go about the business of monitoring
and adjusting threads is it so hard to picture
yourselves in the same position, under the gun,
constantly trying to keep track of everyones
discussions.

When they stuff up, and they have in regards to
my posts in the past... I tell them how they
fucked up, but... it happens.
Whatever brief indignation goes away, it's
forgotten and I go back to reading threads and
posting to things that draw my interest.

I don't step on eggshells and I wouldn't respect
anyone who did as far as being intimidated by
Gold letters.
They don't show up gold on the mobile site.

But seriously, it's nothing... All I'd expect anyone
to do is to say what they feel like, and the mods
will deal whatever it is if they think it needs
dealing with.

Some guy was short, Hill felt the need to point it
out, the mods felt this wasn't the place to point it
out... So what? on all counts.

People will come here with there kinks, quirks and
inadequacies, everyone has them in various forms.
Here we discuss every bloody thing under the sun,
It's no surprise that the above three things come
up from time to time as well.

It happens.
-Aries



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530 DAYS

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 9:57:21 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminAlpha

The thread is not poof. It will be back. CM moderation has been likened to several things, both good and bad. It is also (although not commonplace) to have threads pulled then put back when cleaned. My respectful question is this...what does it say about the MEMBERS that they assume that the thread is gone forever when in fact, it has reached 16 pages, that it would be pulled in totality for something that apparently occurred at the end? After all, it has been up for days with no modifications whatsoever. So my question is...is it a possibility that because of the emotions stirred up by some of the posts, that all are ready to assume the worst, when in fact, some of you have stated quite the opposite quite recently? Is a thread pulled immediately a cause for a battle cry in toto ready to put staff on a flaming pyre instead of realizing that SURELY, a whole thread that long would not poof, since that has not been the case in the past? Just an observation......**goes to clean that thread, then answer Hillwilliam .

I guess I'm used to seeing questionable threads locked, with a note saying why it's locked. When a thread disappears without any comment, it's an easy assumption to come to, that it's pretty much gone. That's why it seemed so shocking (for me, anyway) to see it disappear.

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(in reply to VideoAdminAlpha)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 10:24:48 PM   
VideoAdminAlpha


Posts: 3876
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminAlpha

The thread is not poof. It will be back. CM moderation has been likened to several things, both good and bad. It is also (although not commonplace) to have threads pulled then put back when cleaned. My respectful question is this...what does it say about the MEMBERS that they assume that the thread is gone forever when in fact, it has reached 16 pages, that it would be pulled in totality for something that apparently occurred at the end? After all, it has been up for days with no modifications whatsoever. So my question is...is it a possibility that because of the emotions stirred up by some of the posts, that all are ready to assume the worst, when in fact, some of you have stated quite the opposite quite recently? Is a thread pulled immediately a cause for a battle cry in toto ready to put staff on a flaming pyre instead of realizing that SURELY, a whole thread that long would not poof, since that has not been the case in the past? Just an observation......**goes to clean that thread, then answer Hillwilliam .

I guess I'm used to seeing questionable threads locked, with a note saying why it's locked. When a thread disappears without any comment, it's an easy assumption to come to, that it's pretty much gone. That's why it seemed so shocking (for me, anyway) to see it disappear.



Since I was not sure how much had to be pulled, locking it while going on with other duties would have left it visible, and even a note on it saying it would be cleaned would be gone when it was moved, I did not put it on the thread. It is now back.

_____________________________


You can't please all the people all of the time.Unfortunately there are times you cannot please any of them :( You can only do your best, and hope they realize that.


(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 10:47:48 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I personally don't have a dog in this fight, because I don't have an "issue" with moderation/the way this site is being moderated/nor the owners these days.

I want to ask you/and anyone else in collarme "angst" these days,
I can only speak for Myself. I don't have angst. The comments that were on the other thread from Me that were about moderation were acknowledgements. The other topic was the decline of CM, which from My perspective, was about volume and activity. The consolidation of the threads in Politics and Religion surrounding the topics that sprung from the Sandy Hook shootings was a part of that.

Unfortunately, rather than seeing that as just a statement about that being a contributing factor, I think somebody saw it as a criticism. There was another post where Alpha had said the consolidation may have been a mistake in judgement. OK. That's a mistake and nobody is holding hard feelings. At the same time, if we're talking about things on the forums, it's still going to be a part of the discussion.


quote:

What do you want done about the moderation {problems} you speak of?
My way of thinking goes, if we realize that a mistake was made (any type) start looking at procedures to see what is needed to be implemented so it doesn't happen again or if the policy was in place so it didn't happen, what happened that the policy didn't work. There's only been two times that threads have been consolidated in Politics and Religion. One was the Zimmerman trial, et all and the threads that resulted from the Sandy Hook shootings. For Zimmerman it may have been the better decision. For Sandy Hook, it may not have been. Alpha said she made a mistake in approving the latter and I would believe there would be a serious hesitation before approving a consolidation again. That, in itself, is an improvement.


quote:

What are you trying to accomplish?
I would have to say it's for the sake of discussion. I get curious to see if other people see the things or patterns that I see. The "decline of CM" was in My thought patterns as a volume thing as compared to two years ago when I saw the opposite and created the thread on the "Holiday Effect" where sites like this see an upswing in people joining and participating during the holidays.


quote:

I am fairly sure those that need to know are aware of how you feel, is there something you want done?
Even if I tried to lighten the mood here with a joke, I don't think it would go over well. So, with every understanding that the suggestions may not be practical, that I am not complaining that they may not be considered, or any other thing, here are My thoughts:

If Alpha can see a way to do it considering her health and time constraints, I'd like to see her more interactive on the site again. Anybody who looked back a couple of years on threads about Moderation, I was a full supporter in the fact that when there was a problem and posters contacted Alpha, she responded. Things have changed since then so maybe she needs a person on her staff (one of the volunteers) who can be added as a second contact person for issues of higher levels of importance. Another possibility would be that if a poster has a problem with a particular Mod, it would be ok to contact an alternate Mod to ask Alpha to have a look at her mail.

This is a repeat from a few months ago. I think we'd be better off not putting policy on threads. The "you" statement post is a good example. If the problem with personal attacks can be solved with that kind of information, I would say it shouldn't just be on a thread. It can be made a sticky in the Administrative Announcement forum.

If there is a Mod on the team who is ill to the severity that's been mentioned on a couple of threads, maybe there should be a better way of double checking their work. People make mistakes when ill, busy, overworked, etc. Maybe the Mods would consider brainstorming about a good way to cover that.


quote:

IF NOTHING is done, than ----> Is there some sort of time limit, or will you be here 6 months from now/next year/4 years from now/i.e. FOREVER/ typing the same sorts of things?
I think I'll always be interested in discussing matters that relate to the forums, how posters react to the place, and the atmosphere in general. It's relative to the types of posts and responses that we see on the site.


quote:

Thanks in advance

You are welcome and thank you for asking.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 10:58:51 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
FR:

I am extremely offended by the short comments. People should use the term 'vertically challenged.'

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(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 11:03:45 PM   
VideoAdminAlpha


Posts: 3876
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
Look at my profile, I am under 5 feet tall. I just ignored the comment lol.

_____________________________


You can't please all the people all of the time.Unfortunately there are times you cannot please any of them :( You can only do your best, and hope they realize that.


(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 11:13:34 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
That you even took the comment seriously says everything I need to say about what is wrong with the moderation here.







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(in reply to VideoAdminAlpha)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 11:18:23 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline
I've been on one site that has lasted for close to 14 years. It has started to fail, not because of over moderation but because of the lack of it. The two major reasons it has lasted this long are: The community is basically self-policing and there is a rule "don't be offensive and don't be easily offended." I'm not saying that those would work here, but when someone there offends someone by accident they apologize rather than waiting for the ban-hammer to come down and crying about censorship.

It isn't censorship: this is a private site. You are free to go elsewhere to say what you want.

Let's face it, humans are foul tempered creatures and easily offended b words. Text does not contain all of the ameliorating aspects such as posture and facial signals that suggest a joking manner.

A better way of saying, "YOU ARE ALLOWED TO ATTACK THE POST, NOT THE POSTER " is to say, "Don't make ad-hominem attacks." You can find the definition here

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 11:22:10 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

FR:

I am extremely offended by the short comments. People should use the term 'vertically challenged.'


How about, "differently average"?

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530 DAYS

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 11:23:03 PM   
VideoAdminAlpha


Posts: 3876
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

That you even took the comment seriously says everything I need to say about what is wrong with the moderation here.








My bad, I forgot the smiley face...seriously, you thought I thought you were serious?? Im sorry, I was joking also.

(That in itself makes its own point, but ok.......) I was joking ALSO. (Hence the lol but forgot the smiley face, sorry)


As an aside, Im really NOT under 5 feet tall and 850 pounds, just sayin....even that is a joke.


< Message edited by VideoAdminAlpha -- 1/3/2013 11:25:00 PM >


_____________________________


You can't please all the people all of the time.Unfortunately there are times you cannot please any of them :( You can only do your best, and hope they realize that.


(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 11:27:15 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
What people say in a text only format can be easily misconstrued.

There are people who will complain about *everything* and they appear to be driving the moderation, as opposed to having a *consistent* set of standards applied to all.

Or at least that is my interpretation.

Differently average?? Moi????

I am so far above average, this is why I should be tall.



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(in reply to VideoAdminAlpha)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 11:30:55 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
It's really unsettled and uneven right now, Alpha.

I could pull a few shifts in P&R, if people might prefer that.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to VideoAdminAlpha)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 11:34:12 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline
"tall in spirit"?

Heh! A radio station hosted a short persons only
night at a club here, kinda like how they have
over 30s nights ect...

They made a slogan based on "once you go
black, you never go back", it was...

ONCE YOU GO SHORT, YOU'LL NEVER RESORT...
...BACK TO TALL.
!


-Aries

_____________________________

530 DAYS

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 11:36:36 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
I like it.

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(in reply to ARIES83)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/3/2013 11:41:22 PM   
VideoAdminAlpha


Posts: 3876
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
I'll sure keep that in mind, thank you for offering.




**Now THAT was a joke on your part, RIGHT?? **

_____________________________


You can't please all the people all of the time.Unfortunately there are times you cannot please any of them :( You can only do your best, and hope they realize that.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/4/2013 3:11:58 AM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
Hey!!!!!

I like short women. Especially those with no teeth, pistol grip ears, and a flat head to set my drink on.

(in reply to VideoAdminAlpha)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/4/2013 5:32:12 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
Let's examine the "You Rule"

Here is a good rule of thumb. Any statement that is made that is a “you” statement, that is derogatory in nature, is not going to be allowed.

President Abraham Lincoln was the most stupid president that existed in history because he believed the sky was blue. I’m surprised that he was able to put his pants on correctly in the morning with out help…..ACCEPTABLE.,

To generic collarmemember member. You are the most stupid person I have ever known because you believe the sky is blue. I’m surprised that you are able to put your pants on correctly…. UNACCEPTABLE

To generic collarme member: The idea that the sky is blue is laughable and ludicrous and stupid! Wow. I cant believe anyone believes that! ACCEPTABLE.

To generic collarme member: The idea that the sky is blue is laughable and ludicrous and stupid! Wow. I cant believe you believe that! UNACCEPTABLE.

I can only cover a little bit about the grey area that seems to confuse people, because it is on a case by case basis and is based in large part on INTENT,

If you are talking about an idea, etc. no matter whether, right, left, middle, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Tea Party, and whatever all the other terms, it is acceptable.

To say because YOU are any one of the above YOU are “derogatory comment” is not acceptable.

It is really hard to make a personal attack without using the term you.It’s not the only way to do it, and possible other ways, but is almost certain if it is used, and is derogatory in any manner. If in doubt, honestly, you can email a Collarme Team moderator and ask them if a particular statement would be viewed as a personal attack, and get an answer. My advice would be to carefully analyze any statement you are preparing to make that has the term “you” in it before clicking send. If you don’t, please don’t be surprised if you get a post pulled, and a note from one of us.


_____________________________


This was a great idea, unfortunately, it took me less time to figure out how to curcumvent it than it did to write it.
I realize Im smarter than the average bear but so are most of the other posters here as well.

Due to the no flooding rule, it will take about 5 minutes to make 3 posts so if you folks could let me finish before making comments, I'd be appreciative.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Muttling)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/4/2013 5:34:05 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
Regarding the above.

Poster A: I don't care what anyone thinks. I was taught that the sky is blue because of Fairy dust and the sun is a flaming orb that orbits the earth at an average altifude is 2397 kilometers. the seasons are caused by a giant polarized sphere that encloses the earth and lets more light in during the summer

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 1/4/2013 5:41:02 AM >


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/4/2013 5:36:13 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Poster A

Regarding the above.

Poster A: I don't care what anyone thinks. I was taught that the sky is blue because of Fairy dust and the sun is a flaming orb that orbits the earth at an average altifude is 2397 kilometers. the seasons are caused by a giant polarized sphere that encloses the earth and lets more light in during the summer

Dude, Websters defines ignorant as "Lacking knowledge" YOU seem to be ignorant not only of basic physical chemistry but orbital mechanics as well.
Perhaps YOU should attend a few classes before posting in a science thread.

(2 violations of the 'you rule')

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 1/4/2013 5:41:28 AM >


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Sorry, the truth is not a defense to personal attacks. - 1/4/2013 5:39:58 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Poster A

Regarding the above.

Poster A: I don't care what anyone thinks. I was taught that the sky is blue because of Fairy dust and the sun is a flaming orb that orbits the earth at an average altifude is 2397 kilometers. the seasons are caused by a giant polarized sphere that encloses the earth and lets more light in during the summer

The above is quite possibly one of the most asinine and ignorant posts in the history of CM. Please tell me this is a result of home schooling and not something I freaking paid for.
GEESH. One more argument that internet access is too easy and there should be a test before buying a computer to make sure the purchaser has more intelligence than a retarded flatworm.

(zero violations of the 'you rule')

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 1/4/2013 5:41:52 AM >


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 60
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