RE: Male victimization in modern society.

RE: Male victimization in modern society. (Full Version)

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Chesterfield91 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 1:35:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Baroana So, when you speak of this widespread problem in society, what you really mean is that your brother had an incident. Now, let's pick apart this transaction, and we will assume it happened the way you say (i.e. the way he told you it happened). A girl kneed your brother in the balls for a laugh. How do we know it was for a laugh? Is that what she said? If so, then she's a sadist and a criminal, and your brother should have immediately reported her to the appropriate authorities. Did he do so, or did he react in kind with violence? He chose the latter. Are you starting to see then why the "epidemic" of violence against men by women, if there is one, might not be coming to light?* Your brother then instinctively reacted with a punch in the face??? If those are your brother's instincts, then he had better get some fucking new ones quick before he finds himself in prison for a long time. When someone attacks me my instict is to do what I can to protect myself, so I can believe it. He didn't punch her and then keep on punching her. She kneed him in the balls, and he reacted. He actually felt bad about it afterwards. She said it was for a laugh yes. I've seen this happen quite a few times actually, woman hits man, man defends himself, and the man is the bad guy. quote: ORIGINAL: Baroana This is a good time to remember that we are discussing an isolated case here, and these events do not necessarily reflect the nature of men in general or women in general. In this specific case, though, your brother got thoroughly outsmarted by this girl. First, your brother make the completely dumb mistake of retaliating rather than reporting the attack on him. Secondly, by punching the girl in the face he picked the stupidest possible way to retaliate (the girl - unlike your brother - chose to inflict an injury that wouldn't leave a huge fucking black and blue mark as evidence for the world to see). Now what was your point again? Also, how old were these two parties at the time? ---- * As for an epidemic of violence against men by men, which is something I think you mentioned earlier ... well gee, kid, I know you are quite young and just joining us, but the fact that men are violent - to each other and to women - is hardly fucking news in this world. If you don't like it, then start an annual parade or 5k or whatever the hell you want to do. No one's stopping you. They were both 16 at the time. My point again was that much of the time female on male violence is unchallenged where male on female violence is not. I just responded to the idea that women are more likely to be victims of violent crime, they're not. Which is why I don't understand the whole "stop violence against women" thing. Why only women?

Chesterfield91 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 1:36:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: Chesterfield91 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: It's all over the place. Recently I've seen a few adverts on TV about stopping violence against women, but nothing to do with stopping violence against men. A personal story would be one of my brother being attacked by a girl a few months ago. She kneed him in the balls "for a laugh". Apparently a girl kneeing a guy in the balls is funny. Anyway he instinctively reacted with a punch in the face. She posted the picture of her black eye on Facebook "this is what ____ did to me". There were hundreds of comments calling him scum, telling him to kill himself, loads of guys threatening to kick the shit out of him. He's a bad guy for defending himself because the person who kneed him in the bollocks had a vagina. That's the kind of mentality many people in our society have towards violence between men and women. I've seen this kind of thing happen many times. So you are excusing one act of violence because it was from another act of violence? Was she about to knee him again? Was she wrong? hell yes. Was he wrong? hell yes Maybe so. My point is that nobody said anything about her being wrong, because she's a girl, and it was "for a laugh". Is it remotely possible that no one commented on her being in the wrong because she FAILED mention what had come before, "this is what ____ did to me"? And so people reacted vicserally to the part she did post. Of course she failed to mention it. He mentioned it, and he was still attacked.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 1:40:57 PM)
quote: They were both 16 at the time. My point again was that much of the time female on male violence is unchallenged where male on female violence is not. I just responded to the idea that women are more likely to be victims of violent crime, they're not. Which is why I don't understand the whole "stop violence against women" thing. Why only women? Because... and this will blow your mind in regards to the relationships.... When a man walks.. he walks. When a woman walks, many times she is pulled back, beaten up, and told if she leaves again she will be killed. Can that happen to a man from a woman? yes. Tell me, what do you think that percentage is?

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 1:43:26 PM)
quote: Of course she failed to mention it. He mentioned it, and he was still attacked. They are both fucked up individuals. She was taught shit like that is funny. He was taught to react with violence. Wrong on both counts.

jlf1961 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 1:44:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: They were both 16 at the time. My point again was that much of the time female on male violence is unchallenged where male on female violence is not. I just responded to the idea that women are more likely to be victims of violent crime, they're not. Which is why I don't understand the whole "stop violence against women" thing. Why only women? Because... and this will blow your mind in regards to the relationships.... When a man walks.. he walks. When a woman walks, many times she is pulled back, beaten up, and told if she leaves again she will be killed. Can that happen to a man from a woman? yes. Tell me, what do you think that percentage is? Doing a google search to find that answer and can only find the percentage of women that return.

Chesterfield91 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 1:53:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: They were both 16 at the time. My point again was that much of the time female on male violence is unchallenged where male on female violence is not. I just responded to the idea that women are more likely to be victims of violent crime, they're not. Which is why I don't understand the whole "stop violence against women" thing. Why only women? Because... and this will blow your mind in regards to the relationships.... When a man walks.. he walks. When a woman walks, many times she is pulled back, beaten up, and told if she leaves again she will be killed. Can that happen to a man from a woman? yes. Tell me, what do you think that percentage is? True, but there should be support for male victims and female on male violence shouldn't be tolerated, just as male on female violence is not. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Of course she failed to mention it. He mentioned it, and he was still attacked. They are both fucked up individuals. She was taught shit like that is funny. He was taught to react with violence. Wrong on both counts. Yep. Only difference is he doesn't go hitting people "for a laugh", and then expect them to just stand there and do nothing about it because of what they have between their legs.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 1:54:59 PM)
Almost 100 women are killed by partners or ex-partners each year, figures show. And 21 men died from domestic abuse in England and Wales last year. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13058300

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 1:56:56 PM)
quote: True, but there should be support for male victims and female on male violence shouldn't be tolerated, just as male on female violence is not. And, again, when men start reporting and complaining, that support will be there. You arent just fighting society here. You are also fighting politicians who dont fund anything that isnt a need, especially if it doesnt affect them getting re-elected. You are also fighting against the men themselves who wont, or refuse, to report because of how it will make them look. quote: Yep. Only difference is he doesn't go hitting people "for a laugh", and then expect them to just stand there and do nothing about it because of what they have between their legs. I never said "do nothing". He should have had her arrested. I never said "do nothing" he should have left or kicked her ass out. I never said "do nothing" I said he needs to control his own actions.

jlf1961 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 2:03:42 PM)
[image]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24594615.jpg[/image]

Aswad -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 2:09:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl They are both fucked up individuals. If punching someone for giving you a knee to the balls constitutes being a fucked up individual, then count me as thoroughly fucked up. You cross that magic line of physical assault, you forfeit your own physical security, period. Everything on the right side of that line, we're good. IWYW, — Aswad.

jlf1961 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 2:10:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl They are both fucked up individuals. If punching someone for giving you a knee to the balls constitutes being a fucked up individual, then count me as thoroughly fucked up. You cross that magic line of physical assault, you forfeit your own physical security, period. Everything on the right side of that line, we're good. IWYW, — Aswad. Please see the image I posted.

Chesterfield91 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 2:15:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Almost 100 women are killed by partners or ex-partners each year, figures show. And 21 men died from domestic abuse in England and Wales last year. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13058300 Men do more damage generally being stronger, but DV rates between the genders are about equal, and some studies have even showed that in cases where the violence is not mutual women are more likely to be the perpetrators. http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020 quote: Results. Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases. http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm quote: SUMMARY: This bibliography examines 286 scholarly investigations: 221 empirical studies and 65 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 371,600. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: True, but there should be support for male victims and female on male violence shouldn't be tolerated, just as male on female violence is not. And, again, when men start reporting and complaining, that support will be there. You arent just fighting society here. You are also fighting politicians who dont fund anything that isnt a need, especially if it doesnt affect them getting re-elected. You are also fighting against the men themselves who wont, or refuse, to report because of how it will make them look. quote: Yep. Only difference is he doesn't go hitting people "for a laugh", and then expect them to just stand there and do nothing about it because of what they have between their legs. I never said "do nothing". He should have had her arrested. I never said "do nothing" he should have left or kicked her ass out. I never said "do nothing" I said he needs to control his own actions. Many don't report because often it's just not taken seriously, and there's no support for them. When it comes to domestic violence men are nearly always assumed to be the abusers.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 2:17:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl They are both fucked up individuals. If punching someone for giving you a knee to the balls constitutes being a fucked up individual, then count me as thoroughly fucked up. You cross that magic line of physical assault, you forfeit your own physical security, period. Everything on the right side of that line, we're good. IWYW, — Aswad. I was told at a young age... never step up to a man like a man... you will get treated like a man. Something I firmly live by. But, as Barona posted.... First, your brother made the completely dumb mistake of retaliating when he should have promptly reported the attack on him. Secondly, he picked the stupidest possible way to retaliate when he chose to punch the girl in the face (you see, she - unlike your less shrewd brother - chose to inflict an injury that wouldn't leave a huge fucking black and blue mark as evidence for the world to see). In the US, both would have been arrested on domestic violence. But excusing violence, then complaining "she did it first".... how often have many posted "that doesnt fly." The ONLY time I would accept retaliatory violence would be when there is no way to escape. No matter what the sex is of the offender.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 2:19:47 PM)
quote: Many don't report because often it's just not taken seriously, and there's no support for them. When it comes to domestic violence men are nearly always assumed to be the abusers. Welcome to our world. It took centuries for women to be taken seriously by the law and society for most abuse that they suffer. Does that make what is happening to men right? Nope. But the only way to change that attitude is to come make the complaints. The more than actually report, the less the stigma against doing so. I dont accept that from women... I refuse to accept that from a man. If you want to complain to me that "its not fair" then report it. Until men do, they are accepting the abuse they are given.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 2:21:49 PM)
quote: Men do more damage generally being stronger, but DV rates between the genders are about equal, and some studies have even showed that in cases where the violence is not mutual women are more likely to be the perpetrators. http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020 quote: That was not the point to my post. I didnt state DV wasnt something m en dont need to be concerned about. I didnt imply that it never happens, or rarely happens. I asked a specific question.... quote: When a man walks.. he walks. When a woman walks, many times she is pulled back, beaten up, and told if she leaves again she will be killed. Can that happen to a man from a woman? yes. Tell me, what do you think that percentage is? I gave you the percentage from your country.

Aswad -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 2:25:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Please see the image I posted. Already saw it. I was raised to hold men and women in equal regard. Part and parcel of that is "we make our own choices, for which we're responsible, and for which we face the consequences". To the matter of women often being weaker, I will simply point out that unless the gap is as that between an adult and a child, this is irrelevant, and if she wants to be treated like a child, she had better tell me so before trying to strike me. IWYW, — Aswad.

Chesterfield91 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 2:29:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Men do more damage generally being stronger, but DV rates between the genders are about equal, and some studies have even showed that in cases where the violence is not mutual women are more likely to be the perpetrators. http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020 quote: That was not the point to my post. I didnt state DV wasnt something m en dont need to be concerned about. I didnt imply that it never happens, or rarely happens. I asked a specific question.... quote: When a man walks.. he walks. When a woman walks, many times she is pulled back, beaten up, and told if she leaves again she will be killed. Can that happen to a man from a woman? yes. Tell me, what do you think that percentage is? I gave you the percentage from your country. And this means that male victims of DV shouldn't also receive support that women do? Even though I just gave studies which show that they're the majority of victims?

Baroana -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 2:31:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chesterfield91 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Men do more damage generally being stronger, but DV rates between the genders are about equal, and some studies have even showed that in cases where the violence is not mutual women are more likely to be the perpetrators. http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020 quote: That was not the point to my post. I didnt state DV wasnt something m en dont need to be concerned about. I didnt imply that it never happens, or rarely happens. I asked a specific question.... quote: When a man walks.. he walks. When a woman walks, many times she is pulled back, beaten up, and told if she leaves again she will be killed. Can that happen to a man from a woman? yes. Tell me, what do you think that percentage is? I gave you the percentage from your country. And this means that male victims of DV shouldn't also receive support that women do? Even though I just gave studies which show that they're the majority of victims? They get support when they come forward. Often times they don't, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 2:33:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chesterfield91 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Men do more damage generally being stronger, but DV rates between the genders are about equal, and some studies have even showed that in cases where the violence is not mutual women are more likely to be the perpetrators. http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020 quote: That was not the point to my post. I didnt state DV wasnt something m en dont need to be concerned about. I didnt imply that it never happens, or rarely happens. I asked a specific question.... quote: When a man walks.. he walks. When a woman walks, many times she is pulled back, beaten up, and told if she leaves again she will be killed. Can that happen to a man from a woman? yes. Tell me, what do you think that percentage is? I gave you the percentage from your country. And this means that male victims of DV shouldn't also receive support that women do? Even though I just gave studies which show that they're the majority of victims? I do not know about the politics in your country. In the US, much of the money is federal funds. To get those funds, you have to get the attention of those who control the purse strings. Those who control the purse strings are only answering to those who they feel will best help their efforts at re-election. If men arent complaining about domestic violence, not reporting it, not pushing for prosecutions, politicians can pretend its not a huge issue - actually, I think they are glad to have at least one group remaining silent - and they worry about the groups that are bitching the loudest. Women get this.

jlf1961 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 2:33:42 PM)
In the cases where men are the victims of domestic violence, all to often men do not report any incidents, for a lot of reasons, one of which is that the 911 call can be turned around against them, followed by shame and others.

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