RE: US federal budget (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: US federal budget (1/5/2013 6:23:42 PM)

How about these...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

http://www.newstatesman.com/united-kingdom-military-expenditure-gdp

Butch




kdsub -> RE: US federal budget (1/5/2013 6:25:59 PM)

THIS is interesting reading as well.

Butch




kdsub -> RE: US federal budget (1/5/2013 6:28:42 PM)

Some more...another way of looking at our discussion...a visual way.

[image]http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k69/Daviskw2004/country-distribution-2011_zpsa6c75df3.png[/image]




Aylee -> RE: US federal budget (1/5/2013 6:33:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:


"Department of Homeland Security" and Inserting "Homeland Security Agency" in its place.



But wouldn't "Homeland Security Agency" be the FBI?


Defense.




dcnovice -> RE: US federal budget (1/5/2013 6:35:27 PM)

quote:

we have bankrupted ourselves for your benefit

This makes us sound very noble and self-sacrificing, and I wonder if that's the whole story. Other factors that may have been at work, I suspect, were the desire to cement our superpower status, rivalry with the USSR, and the search for markets and revenue to sustain what Eisenhower (no bleeding heart) called "the military-industrial complex."




Lucylastic -> RE: US federal budget (1/5/2013 6:44:36 PM)

LOL Im taking figures from the actual countries figures, are you saying they are wrong?
how bout the fact that the US forces/tanks/ etc etc, arent based where you thought they were... nah never mind, Im not going to be "responsible" for another sad conniption today.




DesideriScuri -> RE: US federal budget (1/5/2013 7:01:47 PM)

Well, Aylee, how 'bout you get back to us after you've taken some time to think about what you'd do. lmao!!!

Great post!!




DesideriScuri -> RE: US federal budget (1/5/2013 7:11:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
quote:

we have bankrupted ourselves for your benefit

This makes us sound very noble and self-sacrificing, and I wonder if that's the whole story. Other factors that may have been at work, I suspect, were the desire to cement our superpower status, rivalry with the USSR, and the search for markets and revenue to sustain what Eisenhower (no bleeding heart) called "the military-industrial complex."


I think it was Rush last week that brought up something that I hadn't considered: one reason we have our bases in Germany and Japan is for their protection after the treaties signed ending WWII. If their ability to form and keep military the size necessary to protect them, they are vulnerable and dependent on other countries.

Hell, if we backed out of the UN and NATO, what do you think would end up happening?




Aylee -> RE: US federal budget (1/5/2013 7:16:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Well, Aylee, how 'bout you get back to us after you've taken some time to think about what you'd do. lmao!!!

Great post!!


I am sorry.  I will try and put more thought into this. 




kdsub -> RE: US federal budget (1/5/2013 7:22:21 PM)

quote:

rivalry with the USSR,



There was no rivalry with the USSR... there was defense of Europe. The minute Russia gave up and took down the wall and allowed reunification and stopped its expansive policies we tried our best to make friends and forgive. To this day we invest in Russia even with Putin.

We have troops in 150 different countries throughout the world in defense of freedom...and our and Europe's economic investments. There is no doubt however at the evidence I have presented that the rest of the so called free world are free loaders bitching at us while we defend them all over the world while they spend their money on developing their infrastructure and entitlements.

Butch




kdsub -> RE: US federal budget (1/5/2013 7:28:56 PM)

Yes I am bitching but with reason. It is not personal with any European member here after all you have no direct input into your governments defense spending many are not even aware of how little they spend.

I can't blame the governments either.. France will for instance say if the UK is not going to put out to NATO neither will we the US will make up the difference.

And that was OK when we could afford it...no bitching then... we just cannot afford it any longer...we need help from you now.

Butch




Yachtie -> RE: US federal budget (1/5/2013 7:41:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Hell, if we backed out of the UN and NATO, what do you think would end up happening?


Save even more money?[8|]




Marini -> RE: US federal budget (1/5/2013 10:14:28 PM)

quote:

Social Security: Not sure if this counts as a cut per se, but divorce it from the rest of the budget process. That payroll tax goes into one line that fund only the SSI expense. No moving it or shifting it or borrowing from it. It's off-limits.


We agree 100% on this issue.
Social Security should not be in this chart, on the table or part of the damn discussion.

Don't look at/bother/fool with Social Security.
No crazy crap about raising the age, so the average joe can drop dead attempting to work until they are 70 or 80.




crazyml -> RE: US federal budget (1/6/2013 1:41:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No take over your own defense...let us get out of Europe...Now be honest. If tomorrow we took ALL of our military men and equipment out of Europe...This means aircraft...missiles...radars....troops....tanks...who knows what else you think your defense budgets would only go up 1 percent?

Would you be able to pay your healthcare without us protecting you? Would you have been able to rebuild from WWII without our aid and defense?

I think not… now open your damn wallets like us and pay for your own damn defense of your way of life.

Butch



Oh oh... I see the problem now.

The problem is that you do not appear to have the faintest idea what you're talking about!

- The USA can feel free to cut its spending, and leave the rest of us to "fill in" any <giant finger quotes>gap</giant finger quotes> that is left.

Now... <pats lap> C'mere.... and sit down... let me tell you something about Foreign Policy that is clearly going to come as a big old surprise to you...

America's involvement in Europe was not motivated by a desire to help Europe, it was motivated by a desire to help America. You see... and I can repeat this for you a couple of times if you're struggling... that's how foreign policy works!

You do shit that's in your interests!

I hope that clears up the fucking nonsense that Europe owes the USA a single fucking dime




kdsub -> RE: US federal budget (1/6/2013 4:55:53 AM)

Yep you told me with your usual complete analysis of the issue backed by history and viable links. I yield to your overwhelming intelligence and insight.

Butch




DesideriScuri -> RE: US federal budget (1/6/2013 5:48:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
quote:

Social Security: Not sure if this counts as a cut per se, but divorce it from the rest of the budget process. That payroll tax goes into one line that fund only the SSI expense. No moving it or shifting it or borrowing from it. It's off-limits.

We agree 100% on this issue.
Social Security should not be in this chart, on the table or part of the damn discussion.
Don't look at/bother/fool with Social Security.
No crazy crap about raising the age, so the average joe can drop dead attempting to work until they are 70 or 80.


This does need to be included, as it is Federal budgetary spending. However, I think it should have it's own chart or graph. Butch had a great link in Post #7. It takes you to a CBO page that shows pie charts for spending and one for revenues. CBO could have done a better job and broken everything down into the same categories, but you play the cards you are dealt. It shows Social Security as it's own slice in spending, but "Social Insurance Taxes" as a slice in revenues. The description for the revenue slice is:
    quote:

    Consists of payroll taxes that fund social insurance programs, primarily
    Social Security and Medicare’s Hospital Insurance program


Looking at the slices, SSI spending is $725B and the revenue slice is $819B. You can't see if revenues specific to SSI cover or even come close to SSI spending. This lumping everything into the same category is bullshit as it allows for accounting BS.

It would probably take forever to compile and forever to go through, but I'd love to see a specific spending list and where the funds come from, or were supposed to come from.




jlf1961 -> RE: US federal budget (1/6/2013 6:09:47 AM)

I know an easy way to balance the budget in two steps.

Step one: Tax every gun owner $25 per gun per year

Step Two: Tax anti second amendment proponents $100 every time they say something about getting rid of the second amendment




kdsub -> RE: US federal budget (1/6/2013 7:49:20 AM)

How about a firm absolute balanced budget with a mandatory debit reduction payment. If congress cannot agree on a budget use the last balanced budget , if there is one, or use the existing agreement for budget reduction.

Just think...with a law requiring a balanced budget and a mandatory debit reduction payment then the IRS could add, with good conscience, a voluntary contribution to pay down our national debit. I would give a few bucks every year wouldn't you...If you knew it meant something.

Keep the war powers resolution but add a requirement for funding to be in place by an estimated tax increase to pay for it,BEFORE commencement of hostilities, and adjusted annually by vote of congress.

All our budget troubles will be over AND we will be in a lot fewer wars.

Butch




DomKen -> RE: US federal budget (1/6/2013 8:55:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

How about a firm absolute balanced budget with a mandatory debit reduction payment. If congress cannot agree on a budget use the last balanced budget , if there is one, or use the existing agreement for budget reduction.

Just think...with a law requiring a balanced budget and a mandatory debit reduction payment then the IRS could add, with good conscience, a voluntary contribution to pay down our national debit. I would give a few bucks every year wouldn't you...If you knew it meant something.

Keep the war powers resolution but add a requirement for funding to be in place by an estimated tax increase to pay for it,BEFORE commencement of hostilities, and adjusted annually by vote of congress.

All our budget troubles will be over AND we will be in a lot fewer wars.

Butch

Without the ability to deficit spend the US would have never produced the war material that won WW2 and ended the Great Depression. Without deficit spending we would find ourselves in a fiscal trap during every recession, tax revenue goes down so the federal government would have to shrink putting more people out of work which would make the recession worse.




DesideriScuri -> RE: US federal budget (1/6/2013 8:59:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Keep the war powers resolution but add a requirement for funding to be in place by an estimated tax increase to pay for it,BEFORE commencement of hostilities, and adjusted annually by vote of congress.
All our budget troubles will be over AND we will be in a lot fewer wars.
Butch


So, you're saying the President will have to wait for Congress to fund military action before the President can order military action that doesn't require Congressional approval to start? How the fuck does that work? lol [sm=wtf.gif][sm=dunno.gif]




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