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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
So, was it ok in the 90's or not?

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I will, at some point in my life, make it to Stonehenge (and the other -henges in the area). It's a "bucket list" item. Though I most likely won't attend on that special day, not being one to enjoy a crowd so much.

You might find that extremely difficult these days.
Apart from all the additional fencing and security, it's worse than Fort Knox from a week before the event and only one particular group are allowed inside.
However, there are several other not-so-famous henges around the UK that are fun to visit.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Again, I state, "yet." How much was heard about James Bakker before it was brought into the light?
It's entirely possible it doesn't happen outside the Catholic Church as it does there. However, that doesn't mean it isn't happening, hasn't happened, is still happening within the Catholic Church, etc.

Perhaps I can venture/postulate some sort of explanation as to why it's endemic in the catholic church but not others??
I haven't looked any of this up and it's from vague memories from my education...
In the Roman times, a solo male Roman was able to fuck and abuse almost anything they wanted... male, female and animal, young or old.
However, once 'betrothed' and married, any male roman with any power or position couldn't be seen to be cheating on his spouse so they frequently acquired a (usually young pre-pubescent) boy for sexual favours and other 'amusements' because a member of the same sex wasn't counted as "cheating" in that society.
So when catholicism was born from those days, those within the eschelons, from priest right up to the head honcho, the pope, carried those views with them. And because it was an exclusively male-dominated group, that sort of life-style just carried on 'as normal' because in the early days it was accepted as the norm.
And hence, such behaviour, until recently, was not considered a crime at all within those hallowed circles.
I am not aware of any other widespread religion where this was a foundation to their way of life.
It may explain why the catholic church is so rife with this behaviour that does not apparently blight the others to such an extent.
Just a hypothesis.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
So, was it ok in the 90's or not?

Of course it wasn't okay. And, thanks for not reading my links. Plenty of specifics in there showing that there wasn't anyone that thought the practices were acceptable.

If you work at a near-bottom level of a large Corporation, do you go directly to the Owner, CEO, or Board of Directors with a complaint right off the bat?

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From another link I've already posted:
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Prior to 2001, the primary responsibility for investigating allegations of sexual abuse and disciplining perpetrators rested with the individual dioceses. In 2001, Ratzinger convinced John Paul II to put the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in charge of all investigations and policies surrounding sexual abuse in order to combat such abuse more efficiently.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I've watched shows either on The Discovery Channel, History Channel, or one similar. It surprised me to find out that "Stonehenge" is merely a henge made of stone and that there were many hanges in the area, just not made from stone. And, if memory serves, Stonehenge is actually inside one or more much larger non-stone henges. All very interesting, IMO. And, as much as I'd enjoy visiting at that special day, I have no belief that I'd enjoy it with the crowds. Outside of that time of year, is one allowed within the henge? If not, that would make it less appealing to visit, at least for me.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because someone went to such great pains to try and paint PP as a provider of abortive services, as if that were the only thing they do.

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ORIGINAL: EsotericLady

Pardon me, but I have been reading this thread with a lot of interest.
And it definitely appears (to me) as though "someone" in this thread is going to great pains to try and paint
the Catholic Church as a provider of pedophiliac services (through their posts) as if that were the only thing they do, also. (Please see second quote below, thank you)

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because someone went to such great pains to try and paint PP as a provider of abortive services, as if that were the only thing they do.

Quoted from post #21 by tazzygirl::::
..." I am merely saying that Planned Parenthood is to abortions what the Catholic Church is to pedophilia... another service they provide."

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: EsotericLady

Pardon me, but I have been reading this thread with a lot of interest.
And it definitely appears (to me) as though "someone" in this thread is going to great pains to try and paint
the Catholic Church as a provider of pedophiliac services (through their posts) as if that were the only thing they do, also. (Please see second quote below, thank you)

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because someone went to such great pains to try and paint PP as a provider of abortive services, as if that were the only thing they do.

Quoted from post #21 by tazzygirl::::
..." I am merely saying that Planned Parenthood is to abortions what the Catholic Church is to pedophilia... another service they provide."

Not at all. I have already mentioned the works the Church does. Nor is that the focus of this thread, or our discussion.

We have not discussed the other services PP provides, like mammograms, pap smears, condoms or the like.... Why do we need to discuss the other services the Church provides?

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Post 7....

Planned Parenthood is a provider of family planning... of which abortion is but one of those services. And is quite public about all the services they provide.

The Catholic Church provides religious instruction and guidance for the community.... of which children are an integral part. And is quite adept at hiding the child molesters within the Church by moving them around, allowing them interaction with other communities, including its children.

Having the objection of the comparison based upon stated goals and services is a bit.... head-in-the-sand-ish.

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the Catholic Church as a provider of pedophiliac services (through their posts) as if that were the only thing they do, also. (Please see second quote below, thank you)

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"what the church is to pedophilia...ANOTHER SERVICE THEY PROVIDE."

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
You dont have to explain the "points" you were trying to make.

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the Catholic Church as a provider of pedophiliac services (through their posts) as if that were the only thing they do, also. (Please see second quote below, thank you)

And I have twice pointed out to you that, for myself, I have said this was NOT the only service they provide

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"what the church is to pedophilia...ANOTHER SERVICE THEY PROVIDE."

Are all services of businesses now to be spelled out completely? or can a business not have hidden or unadvertised services as well.

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Because someone went to such great pains to try and paint PP as a provider of abortive services, as if that were the only thing they do.

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PP isnt just a "provider of abortive services". That was a very deep dig at an organization that does a whole lot more for the community it serves, while trying to excuse/ignore the very real abuse done by another.

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And, yes, Aylee, it has happened in the DOE.. it happens in home schools and private schools and charter schools.. ect ect ect.
The OP was about the Church and PP.
And that is what I focused on.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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Who said:
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Because someone went to such great pains to try and paint PP as a provider of abortive services, as if that were the only thing they do.

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The OP was about abortions provided by PP and child molestation provided by the Catholic Church. You decided to bring in the rest of the services both provide.

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I am merely saying that Planned Parenthood is to abortions what the Catholic Church is to pedophilia... another service they provide.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
So when a bishop moves a known pedophile from one parish to another without restricting his access to children or warning the new parish, as has happened at least thousands of times, what is it?

It is dead ass wrong. I'm not condoning that behavior by any stretch. There is a difference between condoning something, and offering something, though.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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Who said:
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Because someone went to such great pains to try and paint PP as a provider of abortive services, as if that were the only thing they do.

I did, because that is exactly what you said.
Planned Parenthood is a provider of abortive services.

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Show me where I said the equivalent.
YOU made the comparison... YOU set the standards....
And now YOU want to get pissy about it.

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The OP was about abortions provided by PP and child molestation provided by the Catholic Church. You decided to bring in the rest of the services both provide.

Planned Parenthood is a provider of abortive services.
I didnt bring any other services into this. I said abortions are but ONE service PP performs.

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I am merely saying that Planned Parenthood is to abortions what the Catholic Church is to pedophilia... another service they provide.

And I have made that point.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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Abortions, provided by Planned Parenthood are, as far as I know, all legal, while pedophilia is not, at least as far as I know.

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Simply damning every employee of the Catholic religion, and, I suppose that could extend to all the members still in the Catholic congregation since the pedophilia came to light, isn't defining the wrong action as a service provided. But, nice try.

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John Jay College of Criminal Justice was commissioned by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops to complete a detailed survey of the scope of the abuse that took place from 1950 to 2002, when numerous cases of abuse were made public. Here are some of their findings:

Some 110,000 priests served during this time frame, and 4450 were accused of abuse
There were 11,000 allegations in total
About 6700 were substantiated
Around 1000 were unsubstantiated
About 3300 were not investigated because the priest in question was deceased
Approximately 78% of victims were ages 11-17
Some 16% were ages 8-10
About 6% were 7 or younger

What enraged people all over the world (Catholic and non-Catholic alike) was that much of this abuse was covered up in the hopes that the Church could avoid scandal. In an especially egregious example, Archbishop Law of the massive Boston Diocese admitted in court papers that he had given Rev. John Geoghan a coveted position in an affluent parish, which incidentally made him vicar of a parochial school. The problem? At least seven allegations of sexual abuse had already been made against Geoghan. These were known to Bishop Law, and yet he sent Geoghan to a parish school setting, thus endangering more children. As this came to light, there were no less than 86 victims of abuse by Geoghan alone.

The abuse of power, the hypocrisy, and the apparent lack of concern over the welfare of children shocked and angered people around the world, Catholics in particular. Millions of people take comfort in their religion and in the Church, and the scandal took away their faith in the people who were supposed to guide them. Meanwhile, the children lived their lives with this burden of shame, embarrassment, and secrets.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Some 110,000 priests served during this time frame, and 4450 were accused of abuse.

If I did the math right, abusers made up 4 percent of the total. Now obviously, any percent of abusers is too high. Yet part of me does bleed for the 96 percent of men
If this point has already been made in the thread, apologies for the redundancy.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Some 110,000 priests served during this time frame, and 4450 were accused of abuse.

If I did the math right, abusers made up 4 percent of the total. Now obviously, any percent of abusers is too high. Yet part of me does bleed for the 96 percent of men
If this point has already been made in the thread, apologies for the redundancy.

Maybe if a significant portion of the 96% hadn't been aiding and abetting the 4% by hiding their activities from public scrutiny, I'd sympathize with them.

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Maybe if a significant portion of the 96% hadn't been aiding and abetting the 4% by hiding their activities from public scrutiny, I'd sympathize with them.