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RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/15/2013 5:20:02 PM   
deathtothepixies


Posts: 683
Joined: 2/19/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice



I made the most powerful statement I could about institutional Catholicism by leaving it decades ago.




that is not the most powerful statement you could have made, that is a total fucking cop out. Rather than say something you ran away, rather than do something you hid, just like nearly everyone associated with the Catholic church.
Sorry to be so harsh but you are just another in a long line of apologists.
If you know something man up and say it or shut up.
And as for "the situation is a bit tedious" comment.............

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/15/2013 5:22:20 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

that is not the most powerful statement you could have made, that is a total fucking cop out. Rather than say something you ran away, rather than do something you hid, just like nearly everyone associated with the Catholic church.
Sorry to be so harsh but you are just another in a long line of apologists.
If you know something man up and say it or shut up.
And as for "the situation is a bit tedious" comment.............


In and of itself, there is nothing wrong with the Catholic church, there is something wrong with some of the people in the church, and I could say the same about any organized religion on the fucking planet.


_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to deathtothepixies)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/15/2013 5:45:19 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

that is not the most powerful statement you could have made, that is a total fucking cop out. Rather than say something you ran away, rather than do something you hid, just like nearly everyone associated with the Catholic church.
Sorry to be so harsh but you are just another in a long line of apologists.
If you know something man up and say it or shut up.
And as for "the situation is a bit tedious" comment.............

A few thoughts:

(a) You seem to be under the impression that I had personal knowledge of folks' being abused. I did not.

(b) You also seem to be unclear about the definition of apologist.

(c) You also seem to have a flair for dishonest quotation. I did not say "the situation" was tedious. I said Hill's carrying on was.

So given that you have no idea what you're talking about, you seem to need to label people inaccurately, and your intellectual honesty is doubtful, I should take your screed seriously because ... ?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to deathtothepixies)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/15/2013 5:47:35 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
You know, ever denomination suffers from these problems, and yet the only ones that make the news are Catholic.

Wonder why?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/15/2013 5:58:38 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

You and a few others are among the only ones on the planet who do NOT 'get it'.

All right, Mr. Former Teacher, here's your chance to educate me. I'll even put down the rosary for a minute and listen.

My posts in this thread are easy to find. They're all in the past few pages and marked with bright red tulips. You're welcome to have a look and alert me to anything I said that you think is erroneous.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/15/2013 6:09:47 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Since you couldnt find this thread. I brought your question over here.


LMAO!! Who said I couldn't find the thread? I've asked you on in this thread (Here), to show my abortion beliefs and how they frame what I post in a negative light. Interestingly enough, I knew what thread (see how I gave you the topic discussed?), but hadn't gotten any response from you regarding it. Then, you jump my case because I haven't responded to something that I haven't looked into yet?

quote:

quote:

Yeah, it's interesting because I haven't taken the time to look it up yet. Damn me. Now, how about showing me in the $500k/molestation thread what my abortion beliefs are and how they frame what I post in a negative light?

Interesting how easy that was.
As far as your abortion beliefs....
quote:

I completely agree. I am not "for" overturning Roe v. Wade. I'm for repealing it. If we overturn it, the Fed's are still making a decision for which they have no authority. It needs to be repealed, rescinded, whatever it's called.
On abortion threads, I have always claimed that I, personally, am Pro-Life, but that Government has no authority to be Pro-Life or Pro-Choice.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4093157
That thread is full of your "postions" on abortions.
And, taking that stance, you come out heavy against any issue related to abortion because you claim the Federal Government doesnt have the authority to say what is legal or not. And, as usual, I call that a bull shit stance to excuse your own moral objections, of which you have no right to dicate my morality based upon your own.


You slay me, tazzy. We have been through this several times. Apparently, it's not sinking in.

My stance on abortion:
    1. For me, I am against abortions.
    2. Government has no authority to say whether or not abortion is legal.
    3. You have every right to decide your own abortion stance.
    4. You have every right to get an abortion, if you so choose.
    5. I oppose the Federal Government paying for abortions.[/
    ul]


    And, I want to make sure you understand how my morality dictate yours: I decide what I want and you decide what you want. I don't get to make decisions for someone I'm not involved with, and you don't get to make decisions for people you aren't involved with. That has been my stance for a looooong time now. You fail to see it, accept it, whatever it. And, just so we're keeping things on the up and up, if you use taxpayer dollars to fund abortions, you are dictating my morality based upon yours. And, that, tazzy, is something I'm against. You decide your morals. I decide mine. You make decisions that involve you and yours, based upon your morals. I'll make decisions for me and mine based upon my morals.

    As has happened all too often now, you take me to task over your perception of my abortion beliefs, and I then have to instruct you as to exactly what they are. How many more times, tazzy?



    _____________________________

    What I support:

    • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
    • Personal Responsibility
    • Help for the truly needy
    • Limited Government
    • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

    (in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/15/2013 6:18:18 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
I made the most powerful statement I could about institutional Catholicism by leaving it decades ago.

that is not the most powerful statement you could have made, that is a total fucking cop out. Rather than say something you ran away, rather than do something you hid, just like nearly everyone associated with the Catholic church.
Sorry to be so harsh but you are just another in a long line of apologists.
If you know something man up and say it or shut up.
And as for "the situation is a bit tedious" comment.............


Refusal to put up the the hypocrisy and bullshit is the way to go about it. It can be seen as not the most powerful statement because there probably weren't too many that noticed his absence, depending on the size of the church and some other factors. He could have gone all Martin Luther and gotten excommunicated. That might have been more powerful a statement, but why bother. Apparently, it didn't work when Herr Luther did it.

But, it certainly wasn't a cop out. A cop out would have been to stfu and just continue in the Catholic church. That would be cop out. To my knowledge, dc doesn't have a hotline to the Vatican where he can show the Pope where the errors are for correction. Barring any real ability to make any changes within the religion, he simply chose to leave it and find another he agreed with more (or not, I have no idea what dc's current religious practices are).

Hiding implies staying there but just out of sight. He left. Big difference. And, dc's right... you aren't using the word apologist correctly.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to deathtothepixies)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/15/2013 6:22:17 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

You and a few others are among the only ones on the planet who do NOT 'get it'.

All right, Mr. Former Teacher, here's your chance to educate me. I'll even put down the rosary for a minute and listen.

My posts in this thread are easy to find. They're all in the past few pages and marked with bright red tulips. You're welcome to have a look and alert me to anything I said that you think is erroneous.

You are the one who came up with the " 'only' 4% of clergy has been implicated in Child rape"
ONLY 4% of them were molesting Children

Damn, I'm relieved it was ONLY a few thousand actively participating in RAPE of children

What percentage Actively participated but wasn't caught yet?
What percentage knew what was happening and turned a blind eye?

The head of The Church (Yaknow, that guy in Rome who wears white clothes and the big pointy hat and sits in judgement of the whole human race, speaks directly to God and all that stuff according to the faithful) is one of the people who actively hid child rape from secular authorities and enabled the rapists to continue their ways.

How can you defend that organization?

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 1/15/2013 6:23:45 PM >


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/15/2013 6:44:04 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I've asked you on in this thread (Here)


The link takes me to here...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_4349059/mpage_3/tm.htm#

quote:

My stance on abortion:
1. For me, I am against abortions.


Thats obvious.

quote:

2. Government has no authority to say whether or not abortion is legal.


Then it had no right to decide if slavery was legal.

quote:

5. I oppose the Federal Government paying for abortions.


The only time the government pays for abortions is when its medically necessary

Hyde Amendment prohibits appropriated funds to be expended on abortion except when the mother's life is endangered by her pregnancy. That has been in effect since 1977. Isnt it time you got over that?

The only time it has changed was the 2009 version of the Hyde Amendment allows for exceptions in the cases of rape, incest or endangerment of the pregnant women's life.

The Hyde Amendment does not allow Medicaid coverage for abortion. Also prohibited is abortion coverage for women in in the military, the Peace Corps, federal prisons, and those who receive medical care from Indian Health Services.

http://womensissues.about.com/od/reproductiverights/f/HydeAmendment.htm

http://womensissues.about.com/od/abortion/a/AbortionHydeAmendment.htm

quote:

As has happened all too often now, you take me to task over your perception of my abortion beliefs, and I then have to instruct you as to exactly what they are. How many more times, tazzy?


There is no "perception" there is what you state. You have been repeatedly told the Hyde Amendment does not allow federal money to pay for abortions, yet you keep singing that same song.

The notion that the federal goverment doesnt have the right to decide what is legal or is not is laughable... especially in light of the SC ruling in Roe vs Wade.

I cant help this country isnt run the way YOU want it ran. Hell, it isnt run the way I want it either. But by stating that Roe should be repealed because YOU dont think its legal would be humorous if the results were not to terrible to imagine.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/15/2013 6:47:07 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

LMAO!! Who said I couldn't find the thread? I've asked you on in this thread (Here), to show my abortion beliefs and how they frame what I post in a negative light. Interestingly enough, I knew what thread (see how I gave you the topic discussed?), but hadn't gotten any response from you regarding it. Then, you jump my case because I haven't responded to something that I haven't looked into yet?


YOU expect me to be responsible for your quoting fuck ups?

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4350446

Learn to quote properly and maybe I can SEE your damn questions.

For fuck sake.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/15/2013 7:14:46 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

I've asked you on in this thread (Here)

The link takes me to here...
http://www.collarchat.com/m_4349059/mpage_3/tm.htm#
quote:

My stance on abortion:
1. For me, I am against abortions.

Thats obvious.
quote:

2. Government has no authority to say whether or not abortion is legal.

Then it had no right to decide if slavery was legal.


So, you're saying, from an "unalienable rights" standpoint, that slavery and abortion are equivalent?!?

quote:

quote:

5. I oppose the Federal Government paying for abortions.

The only time the government pays for abortions is when its medically necessary
Hyde Amendment prohibits appropriated funds to be expended on abortion except when the mother's life is endangered by her pregnancy. That has been in effect since 1977. Isnt it time you got over that?
The only time it has changed was the 2009 version of the Hyde Amendment allows for exceptions in the cases of rape, incest or endangerment of the pregnant women's life.
The Hyde Amendment does not allow Medicaid coverage for abortion. Also prohibited is abortion coverage for women in in the military, the Peace Corps, federal prisons, and those who receive medical care from Indian Health Services.
http://womensissues.about.com/od/reproductiverights/f/HydeAmendment.htm
http://womensissues.about.com/od/abortion/a/AbortionHydeAmendment.htm


Ah, my bad. I guess I'm for it now, then. Dammit. I just purchased an "I don't want the government paying for abortions with taxpayer money" shirt online, and the site stated - in bold no less - "no takebacks." So, because the government isn't paying for abortions with taxpayer money, I can't still be against government paying for abortions with taxpayer money?

quote:

quote:

As has happened all too often now, you take me to task over your perception of my abortion beliefs, and I then have to instruct you as to exactly what they are. How many more times, tazzy?

There is no "perception" there is what you state. You have been repeatedly told the Hyde Amendment does not allow federal money to pay for abortions, yet you keep singing that same song.
The notion that the federal goverment doesnt have the right to decide what is legal or is not is laughable... especially in light of the SC ruling in Roe vs Wade.
I cant help this country isnt run the way YOU want it ran. Hell, it isnt run the way I want it either. But by stating that Roe should be repealed because YOU dont think its legal would be humorous if the results were not to terrible to imagine.


The results would not be too terrible to imagine. And, I am not the only one that believes the way I do about the Federal Government's lack of authority to make judgement. And, not surprisingly, has been pointed out before, too.

You can fear all you want about what my beliefs are. They are always unfounded. They are pretty much always wrong. Better luck next time.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/15/2013 7:16:36 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
Oh my. You managed to flunk an open-book exam.

quote:

You are the one who came up with the " 'only' 4% of clergy has been implicated in Child rape"
ONLY 4% of them were molesting Children

Not exactly. As I said in Post 76, the statistics came (via one of Tazzy's posts) from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. I did calculate the percentage myself and claim no infallibility for my math.


quote:

Damn, I'm relieved it was ONLY a few thousand actively participating in RAPE of children

In the same post, I point-blank said, "Now obviously, any percent of abusers is too high." Perhaps you overlooked that? So much for my taking the trouble to add the i tags.


quote:

What percentage Actively participated but wasn't caught yet?
What percentage knew what was happening and turned a blind eye?

I don't know, which is why I didn't wade into those waters.


quote:

The head of The Church (Yaknow, that guy in Rome who wears white clothes and the big pointy hat and sits in judgement of the whole human race, speaks directly to God and all that stuff according to the faithful) is one of the people who actively hid child rape from secular authorities and enabled the rapists to continue their ways.

Thanks for the heads-up about the white clothes and the pointy hat. I'd never have identified the pope otherwise. In way too many years of Catholic schooling, I've never heard anyone say the pope sits in judgment of the whole world, though. As Michelangelo tried to make clear in his decorations for the Sistine Chapel, that's Jesus' job. And anyone on Earth can talk directly to God. And yes, I'm aware of Ratzinger's appalling past. He wrote the document that sealed my departure, actually.


quote:

How can you defend that organization?

You seemed to have glossed over a key bit of Post 99: "Individuals in the institution did monstrous things. The institution did a monstrous thing by covering it up. Lives were shattered as a result." If that's your idea of defense, I'll stick with Clarence Darrow.

* * *


Of course, the real error, though, was mine. I should have heeded the small, still voice that told me venturing into this thread was crazy. When folks are painting with broad brushes and enjoying the thrill of righteous indignation, they're not keen to hear anyone ask, "But is that the whole story?" And I ought to have known that anyone claiming to know good Catholic priests these days would be as welcome as Rhett Butler at the Twelve Oaks barbecue. Like that swarthy rascal, I've called things as I see them and, to borrow his words, "I'm sorry if the truth offends you."

* * *


ETA: It never fails. I shut down the iMac, head toward bed, and then remember something I missed. What, you must wonder, could inspire someone to voice sympathy for Catholic priests, of all people, these days? Perhaps it's because I've had the experience of being in a maligned minority myself.

Coming out as a gay man in the 1980s, I encountered all manner of assumptions as to what I must be like. The most powerful of all was the disapproving/envying belief that all gay men were sexual dynamos. That was all well and good till that pesky little retrovirus started crashing our parties. Our hourly trysts spread the virus fast, and a health crisis erupted. Gay promiscuity was suddenly a national topic, with everyone weighing in and nobody questioning the received truth. Even a very wise, kindly friend asked, "Well, why are you guys so promiscuous, anyway?"

All this led to a new math: gay = promiscuous = AIDS. If people saw me, they saw that. This was particularly noteworthy at blood drives. No matter what your HIV status, how dull your sexual dossier, your blood was plasma non grata.

All this to say, I've heard people say, "He's gay, He must be _____." Hence my reluctance to say, "He's a Catholic priest. He must be _____."

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 1/15/2013 8:20:21 PM >


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/15/2013 7:58:28 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

So, you're saying, from an "unalienable rights" standpoint, that slavery and abortion are equivalent?!?


I am saying it took the federal government to demand that states give up the notion of ownership of a whole race of people based upon skin color.

I am saying it took that same federal government to get rid of the last of the Jim Crow laws.

I am saying the federal government has the right to make decisions based upon the needs of the nation.

You see abortion as a simple right.

We women know better. Women were dying from back street abortions. It because a massive health issue for this country.

quote:

Ah, my bad. I guess I'm for it now, then. Dammit. I just purchased an "I don't want the government paying for abortions with taxpayer money" shirt online, and the site stated - in bold no less - "no takebacks." So, because the government isn't paying for abortions with taxpayer money, I can't still be against government paying for abortions with taxpayer money?


Its not a valid argument against abortion... and its one you often bring up. The government isnt paying for abortions.





_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/16/2013 6:13:08 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

So, you're saying, from an "unalienable rights" standpoint, that slavery and abortion are equivalent?!?

I am saying it took the federal government to demand that states give up the notion of ownership of a whole race of people based upon skin color.
I am saying it took that same federal government to get rid of the last of the Jim Crow laws.
I am saying the federal government has the right to make decisions based upon the needs of the nation.
You see abortion as a simple right.
We women know better. Women were dying from back street abortions. It because a massive health issue for this country.


"[You] women?!?" LMAO!! I'm not against "[you] women" getting abortions if you so choose.

Discrimination based on the color of one's skin (or any other "normal" difference due to genetics, and not really changeable by the person) isn't treating people as equals, is it? That covers slavery and Jim Crowe laws.

quote:

quote:

Ah, my bad. I guess I'm for it now, then. Dammit. I just purchased an "I don't want the government paying for abortions with taxpayer money" shirt online, and the site stated - in bold no less - "no takebacks." So, because the government isn't paying for abortions with taxpayer money, I can't still be against government paying for abortions with taxpayer money?

Its not a valid argument against abortion... and its one you often bring up. The government isnt paying for abortions.


I do not bring it up as an argument against allowing abortions. It's a statement. If the government isn't paying for abortions, then, what's wrong with my stating my belief? What arguments am I bringing up against abortion, anyway? The only abortions I would be against, are the ones forced on people without their consent, the dirty rat bastard I am.

Your criticisms of my abortion stance and beliefs and wrong. You should know that by now.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/16/2013 6:19:20 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

All this to say, I've heard people say, "He's gay, He must be _____." Hence my reluctance to say, "He's a Catholic priest. He must be _____."

You still can't tell the difference between "The Church" as an organization and the individual priests can you?

I made the distinction but you somehow seem to insist on 'missing' it.
"The Church" is not an individual priest any more than "The department" is an individual cop. Remember that distinction a few posts back or did you 'miss it'.


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/16/2013 6:32:41 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

"[You] women?!?" LMAO!! I'm not against "[you] women" getting abortions if you so choose.

Discrimination based on the color of one's skin (or any other "normal" difference due to genetics, and not really changeable by the person) isn't treating people as equals, is it? That covers slavery and Jim Crowe laws.


It also covers discrimination based upon sex. Something else that really isnt changeable unless you go through surgery. But which still remains unchanged at the DNA level.

quote:

I do not bring it up as an argument against allowing abortions. It's a statement. If the government isn't paying for abortions, then, what's wrong with my stating my belief?



quote:

5. I oppose the Federal Government paying for abortions.


Because you arent stating you never want them too... you are saying they shouldnt be. They arent. moot point.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/16/2013 7:40:42 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

"[You] women?!?" LMAO!! I'm not against "[you] women" getting abortions if you so choose.
Discrimination based on the color of one's skin (or any other "normal" difference due to genetics, and not really changeable by the person) isn't treating people as equals, is it? That covers slavery and Jim Crowe laws.

It also covers discrimination based upon sex. Something else that really isnt changeable unless you go through surgery. But which still remains unchanged at the DNA level.


How is it discriminating against gender? Do you really, really think that abortion bans are passed simply to hamper a person because of her gender?!? Jim Crowe laws had nothing to do with anything other than limiting a person based on the color of his/her skin. Slavery of blacks was pretty much removal of all human rights based solely on the color of their skin. Women, for the most part (yes, there are exceptions like rape, incest, etc.), have a lot more control over their needs for an abortion. No abortion needed when you're not pregnant. Show me where a person can not be black so he/she can enjoy the same rights as whites.

quote:

quote:

I do not bring it up as an argument against allowing abortions. It's a statement. If the government isn't paying for abortions, then, what's wrong with my stating my belief?

quote:

5. I oppose the Federal Government paying for abortions.

Because you arent stating you never want them too... you are saying they shouldnt be. They arent. moot point.


How is my opposing them from paying for abortions not stating that I never want them to? And, if it's a "moot point," why are you making such a big deal about it?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/16/2013 8:56:01 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

How is it discriminating against gender? Do you really, really think that abortion bans are passed simply to hamper a person because of her gender?!? Jim Crowe laws had nothing to do with anything other than limiting a person based on the color of his/her skin. Slavery of blacks was pretty much removal of all human rights based solely on the color of their skin. Women, for the most part (yes, there are exceptions like rape, incest, etc.), have a lot more control over their needs for an abortion. No abortion needed when you're not pregnant. Show me where a person can not be black so he/she can enjoy the same rights as whites.


Are you really believing that if men could get pregnant that this would still be an issue????

Allow me to explain it to you.

"We dont want to have to cover birth control for women."

Yet, they will cover Viagra for men under different names. 3 different names, last I checked.

Birth control is offered under only ONE name with multiple uses.

Discrimination.

Given the elective and permanent nature of sterilization, there are several special legal policies that should be considered during the consent process. In all states, there are special consent forms for all women undergoing publicly funded sterilization. A few states have special consents for all women seeking sterilization. Medicaid-funded sterilizations require a 30-day waiting period between consent and the procedure (except in the special circumstances of premature delivery or emergency abdominal surgery in the setting of prior consent) and that the patient be at least 21 years old and mentally competent.57 There are no such restrictions for male sterilization. Arbitrary denial of patient sterilization by health care professionals has been ruled in US courts to violate a man’s or woman’s basic rights. No official laws or policies dictate the sterilization of patients who are mentally challenged.

Discrimination

In order to ensure that a patient is fully informed, he or she must be made aware that temporary contraceptives are also available, that sterilization is a surgical procedure that carries surgical risks, that there are some potential health benefits to sterilization, and that, if successful, the procedure will prevent the patient from having any more children.

So, a woman gets sterilized to prevent pregnancy, yet is denied birth control that is offered under only one name by insurance companies and employers.... so, she may end up pregnant anyways.

More Discrimination

Now we see a push to roll back abortion rights that affect only women. Its a pervasive attitude that insists a woman should be made to carry a pregnancy despite her own wishes.

Unless you can find a man who has also been treated the exact same way, its sex discrimination in many forms, on many levels.

My reproductive rights are being discriminated against because I am a woman. All based upon someone else's morality code.

Frankly speaking, that moral code has no business between my legs.

quote:

How is my opposing them from paying for abortions not stating that I never want them to? And, if it's a "moot point," why are you making such a big deal about it?


Because you keep bringing it up as a valid issue. No one is asking the government to pay for them.... so why do you keep saying you dont want them too when they arent?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/16/2013 10:35:42 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
In and of itself, there is nothing wrong with the Catholic church, there is something wrong with some of the people in the church, and I could say the same about any organized religion on the fucking planet.


Not every organized religion is organized to give one man so much power nor so much potential to do harm. Not every organized religion can force silence under the penalty of damnation and not every organized religion has held a long standing top down policy to prioritize their image over the health and well being of children.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Cathoic Church earns $500,000 per molesteted child... - 1/16/2013 10:37:38 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
You know, ever denomination suffers from these problems, and yet the only ones that make the news are Catholic.

Wonder why?

Not every denomination engaged in a long standing Pope down conspiracy to aid and abet pedophiles in their crimes. The Catholic Church really did make their bed on this one, that's why.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 120
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