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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/21/2013 6:50:01 AM   
Moonhead


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Come to that, I wonder if the caucasian (sort of) anglophone Governor of the predominately black/Hispanic State of California counts? Last census I saw, they have a lot more Spanish speakers than English speakers in most of that State...

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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/21/2013 7:22:30 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

I don't think I can have a productive conversation about this idea. At this point I'm feeling strongly that a productive conversation about this idea would need to involve a professional psychologist.


Well let me tell you the obvious. When women and minorities mention they have problems, sympathy and consideration all around. When men, especially white men, mention they have problems in their life, they are likely to get the STFU treatment and told to stop whining.

Of course nothing productive will ever come from a left thinking person when this truth is mentioned. They rather make ridiculous shaming tactics instead like "you need to see a psychologist". Why? Because I see bias against the claimed privileged groups when it comes to political correctness.

Why am I in the wrong for having a problem with the bias? All I simply want is everyone's problems put into equal consideration instead of discriminating others simply because you claim they are privileged.

Just because I share the same skin colour and the same gender of others who are privileged, that doesn't make me privileged.

It's a totally lost cause discussing this with a loony left thinking person.




This post is the best example of the OP one could hope for. NN81, no one is saying you are a horrible person and your needs don't matter. In many, many posts you seem deaf to the other side of this discussion.


ETA:
Oops, I posted this before I got to post #33.


< Message edited by hlen5 -- 1/21/2013 7:28:57 AM >

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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/22/2013 5:00:26 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ronnie1986


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81
I find it laughable how people keep saying white men are privileged when there is NOT ONE, yes, NOT ONE aspect of political correctness that considers men as a a gender and whites as a race.


The goal of political correctness is to explain to the dominant gender (male) and dominant race (white) in our country that minorities and women are people too.

Do you understand that?

have you watched basketball latley? whites arnt dominating lol and im not making that black man who is type of paycheck.. as for minorities i live in a majority black area.. this may be due to white and black offspring looking black but it doesnt change the fact there are a lot less whites... http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/12/21/white.persecution/index.html is a report cnn did about whites marching because they are losing there rights.. personaly if there is a Black Entertainment Television i want a White Entertainment Television... if there is a negro college fund i want a crackro college fund.. there is a black history month but no white history month.. but i guess political correctness is biased.. we still have to feel sorry for blacks because they were slaves while whites were slaves before that to blacks in egypt..




Ummmm white history month is 11 months long.

And I`m not sure you`d want the 300 years of slavery/murder/rape/maiming/jim crow/theft/bigotry that preceded and made neccessary,things like the NAACP or the United Negro College Fund.

I could be wrong about you tho....


I took a look at the CNN article linked above, and one thing that I found interesting was that this was tied in with the country's economic dilemmas:

quote:

The notion that many white Americans feel anxious about their race is not new. Today, however, economic anxieties are feeding those racial fears, says Tim Wise, author of "White Like Me."

Wise says the recession hit blue-collar, white Americans hard, financially and psychologically.

Many white Americans have lived under the assumption that if they worked hard, they would be rewarded. Now more white Americans are sharing unemployment lines with "those people" -- black and brown, Wise says.

"For the first time since the Great Depression, white Americans have been confronted with a level of economic insecurity that we're not used to," he says. "It's not so new for black and brown folks, but for white folks, this is something we haven't seen since the Depression."



This might confirm the OP's point about privilege, although it also seems to be a generational issue as well:

quote:

"The very definition of being an American is going through a profound change," Wise says. "We can no longer take it for granted that we (whites) are the dictionary definition of an American."

This racial unease is more pronounced among older white Americans, who grew up in an era where America's icons were virtually all white, Wise says.

"The idea that we're losing our country is something that's not going to have a lot of resonance for someone under 30," Wise says. "These are white folks who don't remember the country that their parents are talking about."

With white no longer the norm, more white Americans are hitting the books to ask a question that few felt a need to ask before: What does it mean to be white?

"Whiteness Studies" began popping up in a few isolated academic institutions in the 1990s. Now such programs can be found in places such as the University of Wisconsin and the University of Utah. These courses examine what whiteness has meant during different periods of American history.

For many decades, white people saw themselves as individuals, not as members of a race, says Matt Wray, a sociologist at Temple University in Pennsylvania, who writes books about white studies.

"We are often offended if someone calls attention to our race as shaping how we view the world," says Wray, author of "Not Quite White." "We don't like to be pigeon-holed that way. Non-white Americans are seldom afforded this luxury of seeing themselves as individuals, disconnected from any race."


This is actually an interesting point and question: What does it mean to be white? Is the sociologist correct in saying that white people saw themselves as individuals and not as members of a race? I think some of it might have to do with the fact that, geographically, America is large enough that a lot of whites have been able to insulate themselves into areas where all they ever see are other white people (except for when they watch TV or movies) - or travel into the city (but those might be rare occasions).

A lot of whites also might identify by their ethnic heritage, not so much by their "whiteness." That seemed to be more common in the northern states among northern whites, particularly in the cities with large numbers of European immigrants. In the south, where there weren't as many European immigrants as in the north, ethnicity was more static which made it mainly into "white" and "black." Northern whites might see themselves quite differently from southern whites. Urban whites might also have similar cultural differences when compared with rural whites. Likewise with class differences among whites.












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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/22/2013 4:45:24 PM   
naughtynick81


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http://www.returnofkings.com/3475/racism-is-a-feminists-best-friend

A good read on the anti white male bias in western society.

After all, white men are everyone's favourite multipurpose scapegoat.

It's funny how when a certain group is claimed to be the most privileged, they get the worse treatment compared to others due to that claim.

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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/22/2013 4:48:01 PM   
naughtynick81


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quote:

Still waiting for your explanation of how Robert Bly (the originator of the current Men's Movement 1n 1990) isn't a lefty, dear.


Firstly, I don't consider myself an MRA. Secondly, I couldn't give a fuck about Robert Bly. This explains why I couldn't care less about your question to begin with.


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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/22/2013 5:08:52 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81
It's a totally lost cause discussing this with a loony left thinking person.


Wow. You really have nailed your banner to the right wing mast, haven't you? All those people, ideas and energy that one might think could help you and the various causes I've seen you espouse on these boards - they're all the enemy to you?

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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/22/2013 6:41:41 PM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

http://www.returnofkings.com/3475/racism-is-a-feminists-best-friend

A good read on the anti white male bias in western society.

After all, white men are everyone's favourite multipurpose scapegoat.

It's funny how when a certain group is claimed to be the most privileged, they get the worse treatment compared to others due to that claim.


The article was interesting, although the author seems to be implying that racism was a plot unhatched by feminists to keep black men and white men divided against each other while the feminists take over society. That seems implausible to me, especially since racism predates feminism by a few centuries (or more).

quote:

The elites of this country couldn’t give a damn about racial harmony. The only thing they see whenever a new race story comes to their attention: $$$$$$$$$. Men are pawns in the race game. Thus while American women feed themselves government largesse, jobs, university degrees, their husband’s money, and child support money, American men fight each other over table scraps.

So we arrive at the red pill of race, which is to understand race as trivial; keeping your family and livelihood is better than sticking it to some bloke who just happens to have a slightly different genetic composition.




I don't have a clue as to what this diagram is supposed to show.

But it seems that the point of the article is here:

quote:

But until men realize that supporting their race over their gender is a one-way ticket to feminist hell, innocent men who happened to get involved with the wrong women, like my friend Antoine, will suffer over laws he unwittingly helped to pass by electing candidates he supported for racial reasons while ignoring their feminist credentials.

Just remember when white men and black men are arguing over whether or not affirmative action can counter the effects of Jim Crow laws, feminists make sure all women of all colors are included under affirmative action favoritism.

...

Ultimately, feminism is a political problem between men: women can only rule if men let them. So until there is that day when men of all colors can unite around a candidate, racism will always be a feminist’s best friend.



So, the author is suggesting that men of all races should unite around a candidate, but doesn't really get any more specific than that. I'm also not quite sure about the line "women can only rule if men let them." I suppose that's true enough on its face, but I'm not sure what it's implying. Do women want to rule and take over the world? If they did, I'm not sure that they could do any worse than men have done at running things.

I'm also not sure about the line "until men realize that supporting their race over their gender is a one-way ticket to feminist hell." Why should anyone feel compelled to support their race or gender at all? Should I support my race or my gender? What kind of choice is that? What is "feminist hell"?

Personally, I don't have any children or child-support payments, so why should I instantly identify with another male and support him just because he doesn't like paying child support, blows it off, and then gets in trouble for it? Just because he's a man, and all men are supposed to stick together?

Either he was fathering children he couldn't afford (which is irresponsible) or he just didn't want to pay for those he helped bring into the world (which is reprehensible). Either way, as a man, I just don't think I can support that. Even if I felt compelled to support and rally around my gender, this would not be a battle I would pick.

Support our gender? We men will need a flag to rally around. Can't do anything without a flag.

And of course, a Gender Anthem.







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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/22/2013 7:40:27 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
The article was interesting



Far out!!!

That article was interesting in the same way that an enraged psychopath wielding a chainsaw in a shopping centre is interesting.

That was possibly the most lunatic piece I've ever seen linked to on these forums (and that's saying something indeed).

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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/22/2013 11:34:45 PM   
naughtynick81


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quote:

That article was interesting in the same way that an enraged psychopath wielding a chainsaw in a shopping centre is interesting.


Yes, how dare a white male be fucking fed up with their race and gender being put to blame for everyone else's problems. How dare he be against his race and gender being constantly used as a multipurpose scapegoat.

It must be him with the problem of course due to the massive bias against white men.

Can anyone please tell me what women and minority races are blamed for?

Anything, ONE FUCKING THING IN THE WORLD????????????????????????????????????????

When it comes to political correctness, WHAT IS NOT THE FAULT OF WHITE MEN?'

I am all ears.

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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/22/2013 11:38:16 PM   
naughtynick81


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Being a white male, you live a life of BLAME BLAME BLAME, everything is your fault. You are blamed for what other white men did a zillion years ago.

I don't see any privilege in that whatsoever.

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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/23/2013 3:27:42 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
The article was interesting



Far out!!!

That article was interesting in the same way that an enraged psychopath wielding a chainsaw in a shopping centre is interesting.


That would be interesting too. Maybe "interesting" isn't the right word I guess.

quote:


That was possibly the most lunatic piece I've ever seen linked to on these forums (and that's saying something indeed).


Yes, as I said, it does seem implausible to me. But I wasn't really interested in the author's theories as much as it interests me to read about others' thoughts, feelings, and perceptions about the world in which we live. There are reasons why some men might feel a bit put upon in this day and age. Even if someone is a complete lunatic, there's a reason why they became that way. That might be worth exploring.



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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/23/2013 4:13:55 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

That article was interesting in the same way that an enraged psychopath wielding a chainsaw in a shopping centre is interesting.


Yes, how dare a white male be fucking fed up with their race and gender being put to blame for everyone else's problems. How dare he be against his race and gender being constantly used as a multipurpose scapegoat.

It must be him with the problem of course due to the massive bias against white men.

Can anyone please tell me what women and minority races are blamed for?

Anything, ONE FUCKING THING IN THE WORLD????????????????????????????????????????

When it comes to political correctness, WHAT IS NOT THE FAULT OF WHITE MEN?'

I am all ears.


I'm not sure that blame is really the issue here. There may be other ways of looking at the situation.

To some degree, I can appreciate what you're saying. After all, it's been almost 50 years since the Civil Rights Movement and the passage of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts. We're no longer living under the "old paradigm," so some aspects of political correctness might seem a bit dated and fossilized nowadays. It's also true that some people are still holding on to grudges from the past; that may never end.

I think scapegoating is the wrong approach to take, since any group can be vulnerable to scapegoating under the right circumstances. If white males are being scapegoated, then whoever is doing it would be wise to cut it out. However, if white males choose to start scapegoating others in retaliation, then that may also backfire. So, scapegoating is a bad idea no matter which way you look at it or which group is targeted.

But in all honesty, I'm not sure that white males are truly being scapegoated, at least not on a widespread conspiratorial level as that article suggests.

Sure, there are quite a few bitter people out there with longstanding grudges against whites and/or males, some of which might go back generations. But if there are people out there who are like that, then fuck 'em. If they want to disregard me just because I was born a white male, it's their loss not mine. What do I care what they think? I still have the right to live, the right to be here - just like anyone else on this planet. The UN Declaration on Human Rights applies to white males, too, so our rights are protected. Even if media/academia rhetoric might take a certain anti-male bias, it should not be interpreted as having force of law.

To answer your question, there are those who might blame women or other races for things, even if it may not be politically correct to do so. It still happens. I've encountered men who believe that the decline of western civilization coincides with when women were given the right to vote in western countries. (Some have argued that the women's vote in Germany was what brought Hitler to power. I'm not saying that I agree with that, but there are those who have made the point.) Also, immigrant groups are often scapegoated, so they might feel targeted to some degree. Every group gets targeted and blamed by someone. That's the reason why people shouldn't do it, since it only leads to more of the same.


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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/23/2013 4:31:58 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

Still waiting for your explanation of how Robert Bly (the originator of the current Men's Movement 1n 1990) isn't a lefty, dear.


Firstly, I don't consider myself an MRA. Secondly, I couldn't give a fuck about Robert Bly. This explains why I couldn't care less about your question to begin with.



You should give a fuck about Robert Bly: he's another whiner with a sense of entitlement who thinks he's been cheated of his inheritance as a man by Germaine Greer and her misandrist brood, just like yourself.
He's also a lefty, and (prior to the publication of his shitawful allegorical fairtytale rewrite Iron John) was best known as an anti Vietnam protestor.

quote:


Being a white male, you live a life of BLAME BLAME BLAME, everything is your fault. You are blamed for what other white men did a zillion years ago.

I don't see any privilege in that whatsoever.

How would you know? You don't have a clue what you're talking about and have yet to cite a single example of a feminist blaming the poor oppressed white bloke for anything...

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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/23/2013 5:37:06 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
You should give a fuck about Robert Bly: he's another whiner with a sense of entitlement who thinks he's been cheated of his inheritance as a man by Germaine Greer and her misandrist brood, just like yourself.
He's also a lefty, and (prior to the publication of his shitawful allegorical fairtytale rewrite Iron John) was best known as an anti Vietnam protestor.


I read Iron John a long while ago, admittedly, but that wasn't my take on it at the time. Bly seemed to see a lack in men's lives, but didn't blame women or any other group for it. (If he blamed anyone, he blamed men themselves - but, really, he had a much bigger thesis about social change in history, particularly zeroing in on the Industrial Revolution.) Feminism, he thought, helped women - but what it could do for men was limited because men's liberation wasn't its focus.

There were a lot of essentialist overtones in Iron John (he clearly borrowed a lot from Jung) - 'men's psyches are inherently one way; women's are another' - and this I found questionable. But it was the 1990's and the New Age was all the rage. And there was plenty of essentialist feminist stuff going around at the time, too - the Earth Mother type of feminism, for instance. I thought both types were as silly, or otherwise, in pretty much equal measure.


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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/23/2013 5:46:34 AM   
Moonhead


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No argument with that: I was just pointing out that the OP seems to feel that the left are innately misandrist, and that there isn't any such thing as a men's movement to counterbalance the terrible threat to his civil liberties posed by those evil feminists. I cited Bly to point out that both of these assumptions are completely wrong: his luddite new age psychobabble is the only men's movement going*, and he's a bit of a lefty.

*(Unless you count the Aryan Nation)

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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/23/2013 12:06:18 PM   
naughtynick81


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quote:

You don't have a clue what you're talking about and have yet to cite a single example of a feminist blaming the poor oppressed white bloke for anything...


So you are saying that people do not blame white men for why women and people from minority races don't make it up the ladder in the employment/political world?

Okies, I am glad there is one more person that doesn't blame white men for the failures of others.

This answer is also for Zonie63. I would like to make a better and more polite version of it to him as he seems polite to me but I am not going to make 2 versions of the same answer. When he see's this he will understand. I do understand where he is coming from but we may not agree.

Thank you for your input Zomnie.


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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/23/2013 12:11:45 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81
So you are saying that people do not blame white men for why women and people from minority races don't make it up the ladder in the employment/political world?

I'm certainly waiting for you to provide a source or a citation of this happening rather than just throwing a tantrum like a toddler that's shat itself over something that you can't be bothered to substantiate.

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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/23/2013 12:18:41 PM   
naughtynick81


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Moonhead

Are you being honest? Are you sitting here with a straight face telling me that it's not a belief that white men are to blame for why there are less women and people from minority races in higher and important positions in society?




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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/23/2013 12:20:57 PM   
Moonhead


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Yep.
Either put up or shut up: you've spent the whole thread whining like a schoolgirl while failing to provide a single word of evidence to back up your position.

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RE: The Distress Of The Privileged - 1/23/2013 12:21:03 PM   
naughtynick81


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eCnmeaoGMA


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