RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control

RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (Full Version)

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punisher440 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 11:35:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ronnie1986 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMAkC9-haIQ this video will give you an idea of how a 50ae round from the desert stacks up to other 50cal pistol rounds and just how much bigger it is to a 45 I've watched the vids and seen the gun shop owner where I bought my .44 shoot his .50 in the indoor shooting range at his store.I know I can up-gun my XIX model .44 to a .50 but so far I haven't felt the need to.Between watching it in action and seeing the price on a box of ammo,I chose to go with the .44.I learned the very first day the .44 was very ammo sensitive...it would NOT cycle using lightly loaded ammo.

jlf1961 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 11:54:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: punisher440 quote: ORIGINAL: Ronnie1986 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMAkC9-haIQ this video will give you an idea of how a 50ae round from the desert stacks up to other 50cal pistol rounds and just how much bigger it is to a 45 I've watched the vids and seen the gun shop owner where I bought my .44 shoot his .50 in the indoor shooting range at his store.I know I can up-gun my XIX model .44 to a .50 but so far I haven't felt the need to.Between watching it in action and seeing the price on a box of ammo,I chose to go with the .44.I learned the very first day the .44 was very ammo sensitive...it would NOT cycle using lightly loaded ammo. I know there are other 44mag automatics, the 44 auto mag being one, but do all of them have the same cycling problem?

punisher440 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 12:12:24 AM)
quote: I know there are other 44mag automatics, the 44 auto mag being one, but do all of them have the same cycling problem? I can't speak for any of the others,only for the .44 Desert Eagle.New out of the box,it refused to cycle with anything but heavier loads.There is even a warning in the original paperwork that states only use ammo of a certain grain bullet and gave a list of approved ammo.The shop owner gave me a box of ammo to use trying it out,it refused to cycle until I got a heavier load in the gun.Maybe the springs were still too tight in it...but who knows.I know I have followed Magnum Research's list of approved ammo and never had a feed problem after that.Now like many guns,it "likes" some ammo better than others.Luckily for me one of the brands it "likes" is the cheap Remington made UMC ammo that I use target shooting which shoots the same as the Gold Dots.

DomKen -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 6:29:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You were making an erroneous claim actually. The round used in the AK-47 is significantly shorter than any .30 hunting cartridge. But it's NOT a significantly smaller bullet as you were claiming. It's very close to a .308 and it's available with a 154 grain bullet. The 30/06 is arguably the most popular hunting cartrige in the world. Guess what the most popular bullet weights are? 151 gr and 160 gr. Your claim of it being so much smaller than 'sporting arms' is just untrue. 30-06 factory load 160 gr travels about 2900 FPS an AK round at about 150 gr hits agbout 2600 FPS The cartrige is shorter but it isnt higher velocity and has a similar bullet contrary to both yoru claims. Maybe in your world shorter isn't smaller but in the real world smaller can be in any dimension including length. The round is high velocity not higher than something else. Since you are unaware high velcoity when talking about ammunition is a technical term with a specific meaning (supersonic muzzle velocity).

Hillwilliam -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 6:51:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You were making an erroneous claim actually. The round used in the AK-47 is significantly shorter than any .30 hunting cartridge. But it's NOT a significantly smaller bullet as you were claiming. It's very close to a .308 and it's available with a 154 grain bullet. The 30/06 is arguably the most popular hunting cartrige in the world. Guess what the most popular bullet weights are? 151 gr and 160 gr. Your claim of it being so much smaller than 'sporting arms' is just untrue. 30-06 factory load 160 gr travels about 2900 FPS an AK round at about 150 gr hits agbout 2600 FPS The cartrige is shorter but it isnt higher velocity and has a similar bullet contrary to both yoru claims. Maybe in your world shorter isn't smaller but in the real world smaller can be in any dimension including length. The round is high velocity not higher than something else. Since you are unaware high velcoity when talking about ammunition is a technical term with a specific meaning (supersonic muzzle velocity). Ken, a shorter cartrige doesn't necessarily carry a significantly smaller powder charge. I've handloaded thousands. You don't fill the case with powder. 3600 FPS (AK) and 3900 (.30-06) FPS are BOTH supersonic and by your definition high velocity rounds. The speed of sound at sea level and 1000 millibars is a bit over 1000 FPS. The bullets are of a similar caliber 0.308 diameter vs about 0.309 diameter. Bullet weight. AK is available in a 154 grain 30-06 most popular is 151 gr and 160 gr. The AK cartridge is shorter to save space and weight but carries a similar powder charge. The bullets are about 0.001 inch different in diameter. The weight of the bullets overlaps depending on what is chosen. They are both supersonic rounds with the .30-06 being about 10-15% faster. ETA. Here's your quote. "Assault rifles were developed from the experiences in WWII. They are shorter and lighter rifles that fire a smaller but high velocity cartridge than the roughly .30 caliber hunting rifle rounds fired by battle rifles of the era." 1. you don't fire a cartridge, you fire a bullet. The cartridge is what holds the bullet, primer and propellant. "that fire a smaller but high velocity cartridge (bullet actually)" 2. The bullet in the Russian version isn't significantly smaller, it's actually 0.001 larger and it's slower than the typical hunting round which is the opposite of your claim.

Hillwilliam -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 7:02:31 AM)
Added to the above, my favorite hunting rifle is a .243. (I'll go out on a limb and say it's probably the second most popular hunting rifle caliber in the US) The bullet AND cartridge are a lot smaller than an AK bullet or cartridge respectively and I can load them a wee bit 'hot' to get 3300 FPS.

Kirata -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 7:38:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Added to the above, my favorite hunting rifle is a .243. (I'll go out on a limb and say it's probably the second most popular hunting rifle caliber in the US) The bullet AND cartridge are a lot smaller than an AK bullet or cartridge respectively and I can load them a wee bit 'hot' to get 3300 FPS. I'm not much into big calibers either. Of course, I'm not a hunter. But for anything I'm likely to need a rifle for, my favorite caliber is the .204 Ruger. DPMS makes a sweet 24" fluted barrel AR-form tack-driver that delivers 4225 fps with a virtually flat trajectory out to 200 yards. [image]http://dpmsinc.com/assets/images/firearms/RFA3-204.jpg[/image] K.

Hillwilliam -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 8:08:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Added to the above, my favorite hunting rifle is a .243. (I'll go out on a limb and say it's probably the second most popular hunting rifle caliber in the US) The bullet AND cartridge are a lot smaller than an AK bullet or cartridge respectively and I can load them a wee bit 'hot' to get 3300 FPS. I'm not much into big calibers either. Of course, I'm not a hunter. But for anything I'm likely to need a rifle for, my favorite caliber is the .204 Ruger. DPMS makes a sweet 24" fluted barrel AR-form tack-driver that delivers 4225 fps with a virtually flat trajectory out to 200 yards. K. Do you have problems with excesive barrel wear at 4K+ FPS? That was one of the downsides of the 220 swift which seems to be similar to yours.

Kirata -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 8:55:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Do you have problems with excesive barrel wear at 4K+ FPS? I haven't bought one yet, though I doubt I'd be putting enough rounds through it to have to worry. The barrel is 416 stainless, which has a 12-14% chromium content, so it should be fairly tough. For the time being, however, I'm still paying down an emergency trip to vet that I had to put on my card. Once that's out of the way, I'll have to decide whether I want a new camera or the 204. K.

jlf1961 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 9:02:55 AM)
All but two of my rifles are 308, one of the others is a .223 AR15 and a .458 SOCOM AR-15 made by Red Jacket strictly, okay not strictly, but primarily for wild hogs. I just got the hog gun, and have not yet had the opportunity to use it in the field, I just fired a couple of mags to get the feel of it.

DomKen -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 9:17:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You were making an erroneous claim actually. The round used in the AK-47 is significantly shorter than any .30 hunting cartridge. But it's NOT a significantly smaller bullet as you were claiming. It's very close to a .308 and it's available with a 154 grain bullet. The 30/06 is arguably the most popular hunting cartrige in the world. Guess what the most popular bullet weights are? 151 gr and 160 gr. Your claim of it being so much smaller than 'sporting arms' is just untrue. 30-06 factory load 160 gr travels about 2900 FPS an AK round at about 150 gr hits agbout 2600 FPS The cartrige is shorter but it isnt higher velocity and has a similar bullet contrary to both yoru claims. Maybe in your world shorter isn't smaller but in the real world smaller can be in any dimension including length. The round is high velocity not higher than something else. Since you are unaware high velcoity when talking about ammunition is a technical term with a specific meaning (supersonic muzzle velocity). Ken, a shorter cartrige doesn't necessarily carry a significantly smaller powder charge. I've handloaded thousands. You don't fill the case with powder. 3600 FPS (AK) and 3900 (.30-06) FPS are BOTH supersonic and by your definition high velocity rounds. The speed of sound at sea level and 1000 millibars is a bit over 1000 FPS. The bullets are of a similar caliber 0.308 diameter vs about 0.309 diameter. Bullet weight. AK is available in a 154 grain 30-06 most popular is 151 gr and 160 gr. The AK cartridge is shorter to save space and weight but carries a similar powder charge. The bullets are about 0.001 inch different in diameter. The weight of the bullets overlaps depending on what is chosen. They are both supersonic rounds with the .30-06 being about 10-15% faster. ETA. Here's your quote. "Assault rifles were developed from the experiences in WWII. They are shorter and lighter rifles that fire a smaller but high velocity cartridge than the roughly .30 caliber hunting rifle rounds fired by battle rifles of the era." 1. you don't fire a cartridge, you fire a bullet. The cartridge is what holds the bullet, primer and propellant. "that fire a smaller but high velocity cartridge (bullet actually)" 2. The bullet in the Russian version isn't significantly smaller, it's actually 0.001 larger and it's slower than the typical hunting round which is the opposite of your claim. Nonsense the 7.62mmx39mm is shorter than the 7.62mmx51mmR, also known as the .30-30 Winchester which is the prototypical hunting cartridge, by almost a half inch. As to what is fired people routinely refer to cartridge size when discussing what round a weapon fires.

jlf1961 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 9:48:42 AM)
I have been thinking long and hard about flash suppressors, and I have a solution. Eliminate the flash suppressor on all so called "assault weapons," and then cut the NFA fees on Noise Suppressors, which of course is a totally different animal.

Hillwilliam -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 9:55:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Nonsense the 7.62mmx39mm is shorter than the 7.62mmx51mmR, also known as the .30-30 Winchester which is the prototypical hunting cartridge, by almost a half inch. As to what is fired people routinely refer to cartridge size when discussing what round a weapon fires. The Cartrige is smaller The bullet is not. You still don't seem to know the difference between bullet and cartrige. The bullet is a very similar size and travels more slowly than the standard hunting round contrary to your claim which was higher velocity. As to what 'people' refer to, most 'people' are ignorant about guns because everything they know was learned by watching the evening news or reading articles written by ignorant 'people' who don't know the difference between a 9 mm and a .444 marlin. As I said. Shorter casing does not necessarily mean lighter powder load. It just means less weight to hump through the boonies. That's one of the reasons military weapons' barrels tend to be shorter. Weight. You can even get similar velocities with a lighter powder charge and a shorter barrel by using a different grade of powder. Not all gunpowder is alike. I could sit at the bench long ago and load shotgun shells for my dad, pistol cartriges for my uncle and rifle cartriges for myself and my grandfather. I'd use 4 different types of powder. Each one was tailored for a different acceleration(speed of burn) and barrel length. Even 2 rifles of the same caliber with different length barrels would perform better with different powder loads and that's before you start altering the bullet weights based on what you're hunting and at what range.

jlf1961 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 10:13:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Nonsense the 7.62mmx39mm is shorter than the 7.62mmx51mmR, also known as the .30-30 Winchester which is the prototypical hunting cartridge, by almost a half inch. As to what is fired people routinely refer to cartridge size when discussing what round a weapon fires. The Cartrige is smaller The bullet is not. You still don't seem to know the difference between bullet and cartrige. The bullet is a very similar size and travels more slowly than the standard hunting round contrary to your claim which was higher velocity. As to what 'people' refer to, most 'people' are ignorant about guns because everything they know was learned by watching the evening news or reading articles written by ignorant 'people' who don't know the difference between a 9 mm and a .444 marlin. As I said. Shorter casing does not necessarily mean lighter powder load. It just means less weight to hump through the boonies. That's one of the reasons military weapons' barrels tend to be shorter. Weight. You can even get similar velocities with a lighter powder charge and a shorter barrel by using a different grade of powder. Not all gunpowder is alike. I could sit at the bench long ago and load shotgun shells for my dad, pistol cartriges for my uncle and rifle cartriges for myself and my grandfather. I'd use 4 different types of powder. Each one was tailored for a different acceleration(speed of burn) and barrel length. Even 2 rifles of the same caliber with different length barrels would perform better with different powder loads and that's before you start altering the bullet weights based on what you're hunting and at what range. Bullet: the copper jacketed lead pointy thing that goes from gun to target. Cartridge: Pretty brass thingie that holds the powder and primer that the bullet is pressed into prior to firing. Some of the smaller caliber of cartridges were used as dental caps in the old west and other frontier situations in other countries in an as needed basis.

BamaD -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 11:01:02 AM)
This is not intended as a reply to or directed at anyone. The reason I started this thread was to highlight the sham that Fienstien is trying to pass off on us. It's an "assault weapons" ban that doesn't even adress assault weapons. It tells us that weapons are more usefull to criminals if they have bayonet lugs flash supressors or bipods. It claims to grandfather guns already owned but you will need a NFA license to keep it and you will not be allowto transfer it under any circumstanses. And she wants us to believe her when she says she doesn't want to disarm citizens

DomKen -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 1:21:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Nonsense the 7.62mmx39mm is shorter than the 7.62mmx51mmR, also known as the .30-30 Winchester which is the prototypical hunting cartridge, by almost a half inch. As to what is fired people routinely refer to cartridge size when discussing what round a weapon fires. The Cartrige is smaller The bullet is not. You still don't seem to know the difference between bullet and cartrige. The bullet is a very similar size and travels more slowly than the standard hunting round contrary to your claim which was higher velocity. As to what 'people' refer to, most 'people' are ignorant about guns because everything they know was learned by watching the evening news or reading articles written by ignorant 'people' who don't know the difference between a 9 mm and a .444 marlin. As I said. Shorter casing does not necessarily mean lighter powder load. It just means less weight to hump through the boonies. That's one of the reasons military weapons' barrels tend to be shorter. Weight. You can even get similar velocities with a lighter powder charge and a shorter barrel by using a different grade of powder. Not all gunpowder is alike. I could sit at the bench long ago and load shotgun shells for my dad, pistol cartriges for my uncle and rifle cartriges for myself and my grandfather. I'd use 4 different types of powder. Each one was tailored for a different acceleration(speed of burn) and barrel length. Even 2 rifles of the same caliber with different length barrels would perform better with different powder loads and that's before you start altering the bullet weights based on what you're hunting and at what range. Go back and read my posts. You're simply lying when you claim I don't know what a bullet is and that I said anything was higher velocity. We're also not talking about custom powder loads but about standard cartridges. Stop trying to put words into my mouth.

jlf1961 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 1:43:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD This is not intended as a reply to or directed at anyone. The reason I started this thread was to highlight the sham that Fienstien is trying to pass off on us. It's an "assault weapons" ban that doesn't even adress assault weapons. It tells us that weapons are more usefull to criminals if they have bayonet lugs flash supressors or bipods. It claims to grandfather guns already owned but you will need a NFA license to keep it and you will not be allowto transfer it under any circumstanses. And she wants us to believe her when she says she doesn't want to disarm citizens I kinda figured that one, ken. One of the weapons that she wants to ban is the same pistol she has a concealed carry permit for, which makes her a hypocritical bitch.

DomKen -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 3:20:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD This is not intended as a reply to or directed at anyone. The reason I started this thread was to highlight the sham that Fienstien is trying to pass off on us. It's an "assault weapons" ban that doesn't even adress assault weapons. It tells us that weapons are more usefull to criminals if they have bayonet lugs flash supressors or bipods. It claims to grandfather guns already owned but you will need a NFA license to keep it and you will not be allowto transfer it under any circumstanses. And she wants us to believe her when she says she doesn't want to disarm citizens I kinda figured that one, ken. One of the weapons that she wants to ban is the same pistol she has a concealed carry permit for, which makes her a hypocritical bitch. By all accounts its been decades since Senator Feinstein had a permit for a concealed weapon and that she carried a handgun when she did. So what handgun from the 70's would the assault weapons bill ban?

Hillwilliam -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 3:24:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Go back and read my posts. You're simply lying when you claim I don't know what a bullet is and that I said anything was higher velocity. We're also not talking about custom powder loads but about standard cartridges. Stop trying to put words into my mouth. I read your posts and they are not ballistically or factually correct. I was simply tring to teach. I was attempting to give you information that is not available in the popular media because most of the media mavens are, to put it blunt, totally ignorant. A smaller gun or cartrige is NOT more or less powerful. It is the Bullet, the velocity and the accuracy that counts. A smaller firearm was developed so it is easier to cary long distances. That's IT

jlf1961 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/19/2013 3:25:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD This is not intended as a reply to or directed at anyone. The reason I started this thread was to highlight the sham that Fienstien is trying to pass off on us. It's an "assault weapons" ban that doesn't even adress assault weapons. It tells us that weapons are more usefull to criminals if they have bayonet lugs flash supressors or bipods. It claims to grandfather guns already owned but you will need a NFA license to keep it and you will not be allowto transfer it under any circumstanses. And she wants us to believe her when she says she doesn't want to disarm citizens I kinda figured that one, ken. One of the weapons that she wants to ban is the same pistol she has a concealed carry permit for, which makes her a hypocritical bitch. By all accounts its been decades since Senator Feinstein had a permit for a concealed weapon and that she carried a handgun when she did. So what handgun from the 70's would the assault weapons bill ban? then it sounds like some propaganda, since there seems to be a lot of websites claiming she is still packing.

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