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RE: Women in combat - 1/30/2013 8:28:50 AM   
jlf1961


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Speaking as a combat vet, it wont matter if their are females in the combat unit, in my unit, if the situation was hairy, some body would take the risk to either better our position, or take out whatever it was that had us in the jam in the first place.

It was not done for the glory, the medals or to be a hero, it was done because it had to be done.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Women in combat - 1/30/2013 9:27:30 AM   
RacerJim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, except the asswipe contained therein is that it was the baggers in the house that refused to pay for the assistance requested by the state department.

Other than that is all pretty much meaningless shit spewing.

Sure, except that an Obama State Department official's testimony under oath proves your first sentence is an outright lie.

During the House Oversight Committee's initial hearing about what happened at Benghazi, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher asked Charlene Lamb, State Department Deputy Assistant Secretary for International Programs, this question: "It has been suggested that budget cuts are responsible for a lack of security in Benghazi, and I'd like to ask you, Miss Lamb. You made this decision personally. Was there any budget consideration and lack of budget which lead you not to increase the number of people in the security force there?" She replied: "No, sir".


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Women in combat - 1/30/2013 10:43:07 AM   
mnottertail


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And exactly what does that mean?  That is not what she said, that is cut off.

And how much security increase would have been needed to prevent the entire scenario.

Look at the much vaunted st wrinklemeat.  14 embassy deaths, he goes and asks the congress for and recieves 260 million for beefing up an embassy, then they hit that embassy and like 25 more deaths, and in less than a month 265 american soldiers in the compound in Beirut.....he invades grenada the next day to detract from his fuckup.


And we could have put women in combat over there, for the inept and senile st wrinklemeat to kill.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/30/2013 10:45:09 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Women in combat - 2/25/2013 1:53:25 PM   
Nosathro


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Just a continuation of this issue..draft women...

http://news.yahoo.com/listen-ladies-uncle-sam-might-want-too-081223505.html

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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Women in combat - 2/25/2013 6:39:29 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

News reports indicate Leon Panetta, US Secretary of Defence, is lifting the ban on women in most combat roles in the US military.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/panetta-opens-combat-roles-women

Will this cause the end of western civilization or usher in a new golden age?


Stooopit.

Chics in combat.

Stooopit.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Women in combat - 2/25/2013 7:03:20 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, except the asswipe contained therein is that it was the baggers in the house that refused to pay for the assistance requested by the state department.

Other than that is all pretty much meaningless shit spewing.

Sure, except that an Obama State Department official's testimony under oath proves your first sentence is an outright lie.

During the House Oversight Committee's initial hearing about what happened at Benghazi, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher asked Charlene Lamb, State Department Deputy Assistant Secretary for International Programs, this question: "It has been suggested that budget cuts are responsible for a lack of security in Benghazi, and I'd like to ask you, Miss Lamb. You made this decision personally. Was there any budget consideration and lack of budget which lead you not to increase the number of people in the security force there?" She replied: "No, sir".





Liar is as liar does....


"Jason Chaffetz Admits House GOP Cut Funding For Embassy Security: 'You Have To Prioritize Things'"

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Women in combat - 2/26/2013 3:34:32 AM   
egern


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quote:

Don't kid yourself. A few good women during PMS could save us years of warfare.

(It's a joke, people.)




Made my day ;-)

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Women in combat - 2/26/2013 3:36:12 AM   
egern


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Is anyone prepared for the day when a woman is taken prisoner by an enemy force ? I say this policy is PC and not a good for all involved.


women suffer a lot during war as it is, at least a bit of protection if in the military?

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Women in combat - 2/26/2013 3:50:33 AM   
Lucylastic


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http://news.yahoo.com/canada-ahead-us-allowing-women-combat-054613428.html

On May 17, 2006, in a firefight with Afghan Taliban insurgents, Canadian forces lost an artillery officer hit by shrapnel from a rocket-propelled grenade. She was Capt. Nichola Goddard, the first Canadian woman to be killed in action since her country's 1989 decision to admit women soldiers into combat.

For a nation already divided about participating in the American-led Afghanistan war, Goddard's death was a particular shock, and two more Canadian women have since died in combat. But Canada remains in the small group of countries — including Israel, France, Norway, Australia, New Zealand and now the U.S. — that have opened their fighting ranks to female soldiers.

Canada's change didn't come easily. "There was definitely heated discussion among my peers whether we should be there" in combat, said Lt. Col. Jennie Carignan, who enlisted in 1986.
But the country's Charter of Rights and Freedoms made it inevitable, and the armed forces began a series of trials. However, the initial result was not encouraging for champions of full equality. The trials indicated that almost half the male rank and file viewed their female counterparts as "women first, tradespersons second, and soldiers never." It was feared unit cohesion, esprit de corps and morale would suffer.

Final word came in a 1989 ruling by Canada's Human Rights Commission ordering women to be admitted to all combat roles except aboard submarines. The submarine ban fell three years later.
Chief Warrant Officer A.P. Stapleford, who had enlisted in the Canadian infantry in 1975, said some initially questioned whether women were up to the task physically and whether the men would feel obliged to protect them.
"It was a shock at first and we overreacted at first, but we learned to adapt and work with them. They were going to be there anyway so we just got over it and it wasn't an issue to integrate them into units." Nowadays, he said, soldiers take the presence of female combatants in stride.
The military says 2.4 percent of personnel in combat units are women — 145 officers and 209 enlisted soldiers . Overall, 9,348 women serve in the Canadian Armed Forces, 14 per cent of all personnel.
Officers today speak of having adapted swiftly to women in combat, and officers and enlisted soldiers, male and female, whom The Associated Press sought out for interviews, insist they have no problem with the change.

But some in the civilian sector disagree with the principle.
While supportive of women serving in the military, columnist Margaret Wente of The Globe and Mail, a Toronto daily, wrote following the U.S. decision of Jan. 24: "The sheer physical demands of war (to say nothing of group cohesion, and all the rest) mean that fighting capability and performance are simply not compatible with gender equality."
Gwen Landolt of REAL Women Canada, a socially conservative advocacy group, said: "It was a politically correct decision. The problem is women are just not equal physically, they can't perform in combat to the same degree as men can..."
Landolt supports women serving as noncombatants and was the first female lawyer to serve in the legal department of the Canadian Forces. She said REAL Women waged a lonely battle to head off the 1989 decision.
"If the tribunal hadn't come down in 1989 and smacked them so hard, maybe the military would be more objective," she said in an interview.
"Feminism was at its height in Canada in 1989 and (feminist organizations) would hit back fast and furiously when we raised objections."
Both she and Wente also cite issues of pregnancy, motherhood and sex, as well as male instincts of protectiveness of women.
Carignan, the veteran from 1986, said the first 10 years of integration were difficult, but after a review of anti-harassment policies and a revamp of the military's code of ethics in the 1990s, things improved significantly.
"When I first entered into the forces I heard, 'women aren't strong enough,' so I just hit the gym harder," said Carignan. "Then later I heard, 'I've never had a woman as a troop commander' but OK, so now let's move on. And we did move on, never looking back."
In 2003, she became the first woman to hold deputy command of a combat unit, and was Task Force Kandahar's senior combat engineer in 2009.
Capt. Ashley Collette, during her 10-month deployment in Afghanistan, led a 50-strong all-male infantry unit providing security to villagers. She had close calls with roadside bombs, and two of her soldiers were injured. Now 28, she received the Medal of Military Valour, Canada's third-highest military honor, for her leadership in the Panjwaii district near Kandahar — the district where Nichola Goddard died.
"Afghanistan was challenging, no doubt," she said. "The heat and desert conditions are intense, taking casualties is intense.
"But it's no more intense for me than it is for a male soldier; we're both in it for the same reasons, to do the same job, and that's the way my fellow soldiers saw it too. My leadership was never questioned."
A male corporal, Kyle Schmidinger, said his unit couldn't have asked for a better commander than Collette.
"She did what any leader would do. She fought for us and she took care of us. There was never any doubt she couldn't do the job as well as a male commander," Schmidinger said.
The soldiers said having women on hand also proved helpful in dealing with Afghanistan's strict code of gender segregation because they could conduct searches of women and talk to the wives of Afghan chiefs.
Carignan said while it took time and some struggle for women to get where they are today, "now, the men who initially were opposed are defending female combatants because they know in the end, it's all just about how you do your job."



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\(•_•)
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Women in combat - 2/26/2013 4:03:25 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Is anyone prepared for the day when a woman is taken prisoner by an enemy force ? I say this policy is PC and not a good for all involved.

have you forgotton Jessica Lynch??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Lynch



_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Women in combat - 2/26/2013 4:04:20 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: egern


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Is anyone prepared for the day when a woman is taken prisoner by an enemy force ? I say this policy is PC and not a good for all involved.


women suffer a lot during war as it is, at least a bit of protection if in the military?


That's not the function of the military, or better put, that's no reason to have wonen there.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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(in reply to egern)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Women in combat - 2/26/2013 4:41:19 AM   
leonine


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Joined: 11/3/2009
From: [email protected]
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, except the asswipe contained therein is that it was the baggers in the house that refused to pay for the assistance requested by the state department.

Other than that is all pretty much meaningless shit spewing.

Sure, except that an Obama State Department official's testimony under oath proves your first sentence is an outright lie.

During the House Oversight Committee's initial hearing about what happened at Benghazi, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher asked Charlene Lamb, State Department Deputy Assistant Secretary for International Programs, this question: "It has been suggested that budget cuts are responsible for a lack of security in Benghazi, and I'd like to ask you, Miss Lamb. You made this decision personally. Was there any budget consideration and lack of budget which lead you not to increase the number of people in the security force there?" She replied: "No, sir".





Liar is as liar does....


"Jason Chaffetz Admits House GOP Cut Funding For Embassy Security: 'You Have To Prioritize Things'"

So, since she was under oath and you can prove she lied, presumably the proceedings to indite her for perjury are already under way?


_____________________________

Leo9


Gonna pack in my hand, pick up on a piece of land and build myself a cabin in the woods.
It's there I'm gonna stay, until there comes a day when this old world starts a-changing for the good.
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(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Women in combat - 2/26/2013 5:30:35 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim
I think it would behoove those who have never and will never serve in the military to keep their opinons about the military to themselves

Ahhhh... so now I get it. You feel that a citizen of the United States who votes and honorably pays his taxes (that means... sans cute accounting games) should not have an opinion or voice about the US military?

Check.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Women in combat - 2/26/2013 6:15:40 AM   
TricklessMagic


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I'm not signing up for military service. Poor pay, poor field care, if you don't do twenty years you hardly get any lasting benefit, and if you get messed up during combat or deployment you get virtually no help. Also if you remain healthy and alive, you get little help reintegrating into society and most employers see you as a liability as opposed to an asset. Nah, not for me, so let the women fight if they wish. Let them risk their skin if they voluntarily choose to. I'll be sitting in my office making unpaid interns work for me who are begging for jobs and have little chance of finding employment without being my bitches and providing me with twenty free hours of work a week.

Peace ladies, God Bless and Give'em Hell.

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Women in combat - 2/26/2013 3:40:48 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Is anyone prepared for the day when a woman is taken prisoner by an enemy force ? I say this policy is PC and not a good for all involved.


women suffer a lot during war as it is, at least a bit of protection if in the military?


That's not the function of the military, or better put, that's no reason to have wonen there.


In ANY society, women are candy.

They do NOT belong on the front lines.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Women in combat - 2/26/2013 3:55:54 PM   
JeffBC


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*chuckles* Well aren't you just a sweetheart.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Women in combat - 2/26/2013 4:17:50 PM   
Charles6682


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Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
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I support this decision 100%.I remember meeting a Female soilder who was going to over to the Middle East.I thank her for serving our country.If a person is qualified,then that all that matters.Besides,Women serve in the Armed Forces in other Free nations.This isn't any thing new.This is just the USA in taking another step forward in joining the civilized world.

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Women in combat - 2/26/2013 4:21:58 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I support this decision 100%.I remember meeting a Female soilder who was going to over to the Middle East.I thank her for serving our country.If a person is qualified,then that all that matters.Besides,Women serve in the Armed Forces in other Free nations.This isn't any thing new.This is just the USA in taking another step forward in joining the civilized world.


War.

Civilized.

Good correlation.

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Women in combat - 2/27/2013 10:05:18 AM   
egern


Posts: 537
Joined: 1/11/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

None of which changes the fact that our current Army already puts women into situations where they are being shot at, and shooting back... but the man next to them can get recognition of being in combat, the woman just gets shot at.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

News reports indicate Leon Panetta, US Secretary of Defence, is lifting the ban on women in most combat roles in the US military.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/panetta-opens-combat-roles-women

Will this cause the end of western civilization or usher in a new golden age?


Neither. I think that this is a poorly thought out idea. Sure, it looks good on paper, but so do three-somes and communism.

Why precisely, if we are going to put troops into combat, should one gender be excluded from those roles and the danger associated with it?



By and large, women are just not built for it.

If they get shot at, or are in a position to get shot at, they deserve all the rights and privileges of anybody else who gets shot at. That said, there are certain aspects of ground combat that simply should be kept restricted to men.

The average combat rucksack is what. . . 80 pounds? How long is a five foot three woman going to be able to carry it? We will just put her in the medics corps! Great. How many women medics at five three, will it take to move a 185 pound male with an 80 pound rucksack out of the field of fire? http://www.blackfive.net/main/2012/08/hey-whats-it-like-to-be-in-a-rifle-platoon-these-days.html#comments

I will give you a woman's responses to being in battle: http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/article/get-over-it-we-are-not-all-created-equal

Put them on tanks! Great. Can they lift the ammo? Change and fix the track? How many women will it take compared to how many men?

The Army already did this, back in 1979. They made a much larger than normal 105 and 155 (towed, not SP) crew of much larger than normal women and, after a considerable amount of PT, got them to actually lay, load, and fire the gun. Course, what the herstorians will never mention is that one of the guns was the lightest available, and the other much easier than an SPG, that they had considerable trouble with the 155, that it was all set up by men, and that the ammo was ported and broken down by men. What that was supposed to prove frankly eludes me. That women will believe anything if it fits the pravda? That some women will? That senior men in the Army have no balls? That Jiminy Peanut was a dickhead? All of the above?

The study is here: http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA078769

http://marinecorpstimes.com/news/2012/10/marine-corps-women-infantry-officers-course-101512/

It is not the danger that is the problem. It is the muscles needed that are the problem. As a feminist, this has been hard to deal with, but, guys can handle bigger loads. And our current Army demands that.









yes, so I have heard!

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Women in combat - 2/27/2013 10:24:31 AM   
egern


Posts: 537
Joined: 1/11/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaharThorne

I am a veteran and was trained in shooting an M-60. This was back in the 80s though. If Israel has female combat soldiers, so can the USA.

I was a comm rat anyway so not only did I have to carry a 80 pound knapsack, I had to make sure I can lift 75 pound radios. I weight trained myself to keep fit. I also was the only female comm rat. The other females in my company were medics or paperpushers.

Do we face the manpower shortage that forced that step by Israel. Of course not. The Russians in WWII did it when they started running out of men,


The German population in 1939 was some 69,850, Russia popluation was 165.5 million it is true that
on a per centage bases Russia had more deaths some 8 million to 13 million...but I don't think the ran out of men....



My UK partner tell me that yes, there was a shortage of men after WW2 in the UK.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 140
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