quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

So British soldiers were running these concentration camps?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Interesting photo of the delousing.

Taken at the Bergen-Belsen camp.

Same as this photo

Location: Bergen Belsen, Germany, Date taken: May 1945..Photographer: George Rodger

http://www.histomil.com/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=3918&start=220#ixzz2KRamZ1G7

Among many others. Since this whole collection also contains your photos, I am sure you wont argue with the authenticity.

[image]local://upfiles/502828/7876D7B2B58547B58E80937902FAF878.jpg[/image]

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Uh, about burning a human body? Read Recovery and Interpretation of Burned Human Remains

I still cant believe that pictures of bodies being burned can be denied.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I'm trying to point out that it could be a matter of mental illness not antisemitism. In certain cases the sort of thing the OP is talking about could be a symptom instead of a position.

In that case, due to the extent of the delusion of one particular poster, institutionalized seems the appropriate solution.

quote:

HOLOCAUST HAS ONE MEANING, and it is not genocide.

Death by burning historically has aspects of human sacrifice. (Theodor W. Adorno.)[3] (Horkheimer, M., Adorno T.W. (1947), Dialektik der Aufklärung. Philosophische Fragmente, Amsterdam: Querido; p. 199ff. Hughes (2007)


The Old Testament of the Bible documents the Jewish sacrificial burning (holocaust) rituals in several places.

"Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you." (Genesis 22:1-18)

The Lord said "Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me." (Exodus 13:2)

She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)

[The Lord speaking] "The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel." (Joshua 7:15 NLT)

This is where the words destruction comes in but only to the extend that what is being sacrificed is completely not useable to the person making the sacrifice, like the daughter to the father or the meat is not longer edible etc etc

At the LORD's command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice. Then at the LORD's command, he shouted, "O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you." (1 Kings 13:1-2 NLT)

He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them. Finally, he returned to Jerusalem. King Josiah then issued this order to all the people: "You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in the Book of the Covenant." There had not been a Passover celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel, throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah. This Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King Josiah's reign. Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and throughout the land of Judah. He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. (2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT)



HOLOCAUST

As suggested by its Greek origin (holos "whole", and kaustos "burnt") the word designates an offering entirely consumed by fire, in use among the Jews and some pagan nations of antiquity.

As employed in the Vulgate, it corresponds to two Hebrew terms:

(1) to holah, literally: "that which goes up", either to the altar to be sacrificed, or to heaven in the sacrificial flame;

(2) Kalil, literally: "entire", "perfect", which, as a sacrificial term, is usually a descriptive synonym of holah, and denotes an offering consumed wholly on the altar.

At whatever time and by whomsoever offered, holocausts were naturally regarded as the highest, because the most complete, outward expression of man's reverence to God. It is, indeed, true that certain passages of the prophets of Israel have been construed by modern critics into an utter rejection of the offering of sacrifices, the holocausts included; but this position is the outcome of a partial view of the evidence, of the misconception of an attack on abuses as an attack on the institution which they had infected. For details concerning this point, and for a discussion of the place which the same scholars assign to the holah (holocaust) in their theory of the development of the sacrificial system among the Hebrews, see SACRIFICE.


The following is a concise statement of the Mosaic Law as contained chiefly in what critics commonly call the Priests' Code, concerning whole burnt-offerings.
Victims for holocausts

Only animals could be offered in holocaust; for human victims, which were sacrificed by the Canaanites and by other peoples, were positively excluded from the legitimate worship of Yahweh (cf. Leviticus 18:21; 20:2-5; Deuteronomy 12:31; etc.).

In general, the victims had to be taken either from the herd (young bullocks) or from the flock (sheep or goats); and, to be acceptable, the animal was required to be a male, as the more valuable, and without blemish, as only then worthy of God (Leviticus 1:2, 3, 5, 10; 22:17 sqq.).

In certain cases, however, birds (only turtle-doves or young pigeons) were offered in holocaust (Leviticus 1:14; etc.); these birds were usually allowed to the poor as a substitute for the larger and more expensive animals (Leviticus 5:7; 12:8; 14:22), and were even directly prescribed in some cases of ceremonial uncleanness (Leviticus 15:14, 15, 29, 30).
Game and fishes, which were sacrificed in some pagan worships of Western Asia, were not objects of sacrifice in the Mosaic Law.


Ritual of holocausts

The principle rites to be carried out in the offering of holocausts, were

(1) on the part of the offerer, that he should bring the animal to the door of the tabernacle, impose his hands on its head, slay it to the north of the altar, flay and cut up its carcass, and wash its entrails and legs;

(2) on the part of the priest, that he should receive the blood of the victim, sprinkle it about the altar, and burn the offering. In the case of an offering of birds, it was the priest who killed the victims and flung aside as unsuitable their crop and feathers (Leviticus 1).

In public sacrifices, it was also the priest's duty to slay the victims, being assisted on occasions by the Levites. The inspection of the entrails, which played a most important part in the sacrifices of several ancient people, notably of the Phoenicians, had no place in the Mosaic ritual.


Classes of holocausts

Among the Hebrews, holocausts were of two general kinds, according as their offering was prescribed by the Law or the result of private vow or devotion.

The obligatory holocausts were

(1) the daily burnt-offering of a lamb; this holocaust was made twice a day (at the third and ninth hour), and accompanied by a cereal oblation and a libation of wine (Exodus 29:38-42; Numbers 28:3-8);

(2) the sabbath burnt-offering, which included the double amount of all the elements of the ordinary daily holocaust (Numbers 28:9, 10);

(3) the festal burnt-offering, celebrated at the New Moon, the Pasch, on the Feast of Trumpets, the day of Atonement, and the Feast of Tabernacles, on which occasions the number of the victims and the quantity of the other offerings were considerably increased;

(4) the holocausts prescribed for the consecration of a priest (Exodus 29:15 sqq.; Leviticus 8:18; 9:12), at the purification of women (Leviticus 12:6-8), at the cleansing of lepers (Leviticus 14:19, 20), at the purgation of ceremonial uncleanness (Leviticus 15:15, 30), and finally in connection with the Nazarite vow (Numbers 6:11, 16).

In the voluntary burnt-offerings the number of the victims was left to the liberality or to the wealth of the offerer (cf. 1 Kings 3:4; 1 Chronicles 29:21, etc., for very large voluntary holocausts), and the victims might be supplied by the Gentiles, a permission of which Augustus actually availed himself, according to Philo (Legatio ad Caium, xl).
Chief purposes of holocausts

Principal purposes of the whole burnt-offerings prescribed by the Mosaic Law:

(1) By the total surrender and destruction of victims valuable, pure, innocent, and most nearly connected with man, holocausts vividly recalled to the Hebrews of old the supreme dominion of God over His creatures, and suggested to them the sentiments of inner purity and entire self-surrender to the Divine Majesty, without which even those most excellent sacrifices could not be of any account before the Almighty Beholder of the secrets of the heart.

(2) In offering holocausts with the proper dispositions worshippers could feel assured of acceptance with God, Who then looked upon the victims as a means of atonement for their sins (Leviticus 1:4), as a well-pleasing sacrifice on their behalf (Leviticus 1:3, 9), and as a cleansing from whatever defilement might have prevented them from appearing worthily before Him (Leviticus 14:20).

(3) The holocausts of the Old Law foreshadowed the great and perfect sacrifice which Jesus, the High Priest of the New Law and the true Lamb of God, was to offer in fulfillment of all the bloody sacrifices of the first covenant (Hebrews 9:12, sqq.; etc.).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The English "Dust spreads typhus" sign was at Belsen and warned aginst the spread of the disease (By air borne particles) Vehcicles kick up more dust the faster they go.

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205194179

quote:

I am not going ot bother looking around to see who the nirod is that was not able to comprehend what was being said and foolish enough to think I do not know the difference between brit and german uniforms.

I pointed out that jeffs picture was delousing not burning, DDT was a fine poweder and you would put it in the equivalent of a fogger and there would be quite the cloud, just like jeffs picture.

Now I am the one who said the allies had DDT so I hope you all try to keep up a little better in the future.

yes the allies pushed the bodies into pits and forced german women and civilians to handle diseased bodies with no protection and several died as a result.

your point?

quote:

delousing with DDT dusters not burning in pits

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The English "Dust spreads typhus" sign was at Belsen and warned aginst the spread of the disease (By air borne particles) Vehcicles kick up more dust the faster they go.

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205194179

yes hitler was dealing with a huge typhus epidemic just prior to the end of the war due to the supply convoys being bombed.

The typhus for those who have managed to keep up I and a couple other posters pointed out several hundred posts ago was the main cause of death in the camps, and everyone sneered and stood on their soapbox screaming gassing was the main cause. We have mountains of documented evidence of typhus and nothing for gas but runors.

I am glad people are coming around to face a small piece of reality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The English "Dust spreads typhus" sign was at Belsen and warned aginst the spread of the disease (By air borne particles) Vehcicles kick up more dust the faster they go.

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205194179

yes hitler was dealing with a huge typhus epidemic just prior to the end of the war due to the supply convoys being bombed.

The typhus for those who have managed to keep up I and a couple other posters pointed out several hundred posts ago was the main cause of death in the camps, and everyone sneered and stood on their soapbox screaming gassing was the main cause. We have mountains of documented evidence of typhus and nothing for gas but runors.

I am glad people are coming around to face a small piece of reality.

Again you are spouting propoganda that flies in the face of reality. Are you laughably suggesting hitler would even be bothered with conditions in the camps, while germany was on the verge of defeat. How you get away with this constnt trolling is beyond me.

quote:

1, RUDOLF FRANZ FERDINAND HOESS, being first duly sworn, depose and say as follows:

1. I am forty­six years old, and have been a member of the NSDAPI since 1922; a member of the SS since 1934; a member of the Waffen­SS since 1939. I was a member from 1 December 1934 of the SS Guard Unit, the so­called Deathshead Formation (Totenkopf Verband).

2. I have been constantly associated with the administration of concentration camps since 1934, serving at Dachau until 1938; then as Adjutant in Sachsenhausen from 1938 to 1 May, 1940, when I was appointed Commandant of Auschwitz. l commanded Auschwitz until 1 December,1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease, making a total dead of about 3,000,000. This figure represents about 70% or 80% of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners, the remainder having been selected and used for slave labor in the concentration camp industries. Included among the executed and burnt were approximately 20,000 Russian prisoners of war (previously screened out of Prisoner of War cages by the Gestapo) who were delivered at Auschwitz in Wehrmacht transports operated by regular Wehrmacht officers and men. The remainder of the total number of victims included about 100,000 German Jews, and great numbers of citizens (mostly Jewish) from Holland, France, Belgium, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Greece, or other countries. We executed about 400,000 Hungarian Jews alone at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944.

4. Mass executions by gassing commenced during the summer 1941 and continued until fall 1944.1 personally supervised executions at Auschwitz until the first of December 1943 and know by reason of my continued duties in the Inspectorate of Concentration Camps WVHA2 that these mass executions continued as stated above. All mass executions by gassing took place under the direct order, supervision and responsibility of RSHA.31 received all orders for carrying out these mass executions directly from RSHA.

6. The "final solution" of the Jewish question meant the complete extermination of all Jews in Europe. l was ordered to establish extermination facilities at Auschwitz in June 1941. At that time there were already in the general govemment three other extermination camps; BELZEK, TREBLINKA and WOLZEK. These camps were under the Einsatzkommando of the Security Police and SD. I visited Treblinka to find out how they carried out their exterminations. The Camp Commandant at Treblinka told me that he had liquidated 80,000 in the course of one­half year. He was principally concerned with liquidating all the Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto. He used monoxide gas and I did not think that his methods were very efficient. So when I set up the extermination building at Auschwitz, l used Cyclon B, which was a crystallized Prussic Acid which we dropped into the death chamber from a small opening. It took from 3 to 15 minutes to kill the people in the death chamber depending upon climatic conditions. We knew when the people were dead because their screaming stopped. We usually waited about one­half hour before we opened the doors and removed the bodies. After the bodies were removed our special commandos took off the rings and extracted the gold from the teeth of the corpses.

7. Another improvement we made over Treblinka was that we built our gas chambers to accommodate 2,000 people at one time, whereas at Treblinka their 10 gas chambers only accommodated 200 people each. The way we selected our victims was as follows: we had two SS doctors on duty at Auschwitz to examine the incoming transports of prisoners. The prisoners would be marched by one of the doctors who would make spot decisions as they walked by. Those who were fit for work were sent into the Camp. Others were sent immediately to the extermination plants. Children of tender years were invariably exterminated since by reason of their youth they were unable to work. Still another improvement we made over Treblinka was that at Treblinka the victims almost always knew that they were to be exterminated and at Auschwitz we endeavored to fool the victims into thinking that they were to go through a delousing process. Of course, frequently they realized our true intentions and we sometimes had riots and difficulties due to that fact. Very frequently women would hide their children under the clothes but of course when we found them we would send the children in to be exterminated. We were required to carry out these exterminations in secrecy but of course the foul and nauseating stench from the continuous burning of bodies permeated the entire area and all of the people living in the surrounding communities knew that exterminations were going on at Auschwitz .

8. We received from time to time special prisoners from the local Gestapo office. The SS doctors killed such prisoners by injections of benzine. Doctors had orders to write ordinary death certificates and could put down any reason at all for the cause of death.

9. From time to time we conducted medical experiments on women inmates, including sterilization and experiments relating to cancer. Most of the people who died under these experiments had been already condemned to death by the Gestapo.

10. Rudolf Mildner was the chief of the Gestapo at Kattowicz and as such was head of the political department at Auschwitz which conducted third degree methods of interrogation from approximately March 1941 until September 1943. As such, he frequently sent prisoners to Auschwitz for incarceration or execution. He visited Auschwitz on several occasions. The Gestapo Court, the SS Standgericht, which tried persons accused of various crimes, such as escaping Prisoners of War, etc., frequently met within Auschwitz, and Mildner often attended the trial of such persons, who usually were executed in Auschwitz following their sentence. l showed Mildner throughout the extermination plant at Auschwitz and he was directly interested in it since he had to send the Jews from his territory for execution at Auschwitz.

I understand English as it is written above. The above statements are true; this declaration is made by me voluntarily and without compulsion; after reading over the statement, I have signed and executed the same at Nurnberg, Germany on the fifth day of April 1946.

Rudolf Franz Ferdinand Hoess, "Affidavit, 5 April 1946," in Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Tribunal, Nuremberg, 14 November 1945­1 October 1946 (Nuremberg: Secretariat of the International Military Tribunal, 1949), Doc. 3868­PS, vol. 33, 275­79.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I am not going ot bother looking around to see who the nirod is that was not able to comprehend what was being said and foolish enough to think I do not know the difference between brit and german uniforms.

I pointed out that jeffs picture was delousing not burning, DDT was a fine poweder and you would put it in the equivalent of a fogger and there would be quite the cloud, just like jeffs picture.

Now I am the one who said the allies had DDT so I hope you all try to keep up a little better in the future.

yes the allies pushed the bodies into pits and forced german women and civilians to handle diseased bodies with no protection and several died as a result.

your point?

My point.

quote:

delousing with DDT dusters not burning in pits

Thats British soldiers delousing.

And, my point, yet again, how many of them would have died had they not been there?

How many would not have contacted Typhus?

How many died needlessly in concentration camps for any reason?

How many of them belonged in those camps?

Can you answer any of those questions.

quote:

They were there because they german residents and they declared war on germany.

quote:

The greater majority of these people had typhus or carried typhus bearing lice upon arrival when they were inducted and that is why the expense and elaborate equipment to delouse people and material to prevent the spread to prisoners already in the camp.


deloused clothing

quote:

That is an official declaration of war.