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RE: A little patience please. - 1/29/2013 3:36:26 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


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Fast Reply having read only the OP.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

As a dyslexic, I have always found it hard to structure sentences. My punctuation is bloody abysmal and so is my spelling…. Thank goodness for spell check.
I have to admit, being online and typing as much as I do has hugely helped me in certain areas of written comprehension. I still get things wrong though and I still constantly worry about getting those things wrong.
One of the most difficult things for me is getting my thoughts down on paper. In my head I know exactly what I want to say but expressing it in the written word is often hopeless.
I can’t tell you how many posts I write and delete before posting. I sometimes read them out loud to my partner who more often than not says, ‘I didn’t understand a word of that’!! We are able to laugh about my odd tangents of the written word, as we are both dyslexic. I also have Dyspraxia, which makes things even more hilarious when I can’t pronounce a big word and sometimes can’t pronounce a simple one. People who know me would tell you that my speech is fluent and confident. They are right; it is fluid and confident providing I know to avoid certain words. It’s a little bit like someone who stutters avoiding all words beginning with ‘t’
Steve is a physicist and his background is engineering. His IQ is through the roof but its seldom he puts pen to paper unless its for a mathematical equation. I’m not so bright. He tells me I am which is kind of him but when it comes to keeping up with him I’m way back there.
And then of course we get the grammar and spelling pedants. I have been pulled up here far too often for grammatical mistakes. Only yesterday I was publicly belittled because of my paragraphs. My paragraphs are bloody awful and this is one thing that has just never improved no matter how much I write. I let it upset me, I shouldn’t but I do. I go away and dwell on it, question my intelligence before coming back here and hovering my finger of the ‘delete my account button’.
When you are dyslexic its very easy to spot other dyslexics. In general, Dyslexics will spend some time trying to get the spelling right and when they aren’t sure they have a tendency to use alternative words that they can spell. To someone else this often doesn’t read with any fluidity, especially if they have added or omitted words to modify its meaning.
I was diagnosed with Dyslexia and Dyspracxia at 13. Steve was diagnosed with dyslexia at 15 both of us were in the dunces class at school up until our diagnosis, both of us have been given an enormous amount of help and encouragement from the Dyslexic society, universities and colleges we attended. Both of us are over sensitive about our intelligence or lack of it. It’s easy to get paranoid, especially when you fail at something.

If we read something and we notice odd grammatical terms or strange spellings but we comprehend what that person is saying, should we pull them up publicly?
Do you really believe that Dyslexic people are so because they are lazy or just need to take an English class?
I know a lot of people claim to be Dyslexic when they haven’t been diagnosed and I believe there are far more undiagnosed Dyslexics than diagnosed ones.

Can we all be just a little more patient?



I saw the post yesterday and the criticism about your paragraph. I remember thinking it wasn't that long, considerably shorter than your post above, and thinking that the criticism was unjustified. I had no problem understanding your post.

In fact, I enjoy reading almost all of your posts.

I was raised by a grammar nazi and go to a lot of effort NOT to emulate her. I remind myself that not everyone can touch-type, which I finally taught myself twenty years ago, and remember how hard it was to catch mistakes and correct them when typing by the hunt and peck method. I also remind myself that here on the Internet English is not the mother tongue of quite a few people. I remind myself that not everybody had proper grammar and spelling ground into their heads at a young age like I did. I remind myself that just because a person might not be extremely proficient at writing does not mean she doesn't have anything valuable to say, nor that I can't learn something from her. And, I remind myself that being dyslexic does NOT mean a person is stupid and that I too make my share of mistakes and don't catch them.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: A little patience please. - 1/29/2013 4:10:46 PM   
kiwisub12


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Oh cripes - i turned into a spelling and grammar nazi whilst editing my ex's university papers - and there was a lot to edit lol.

I seldom point out errors on cm, because a. i'm (usually) not a dick, and b. if we haven't got it by adulthood, then we probably aren't going to get it, so why bait the ignorant.

Having said that, Maria, i can't say that i have ever noticed a pattern of bad spelling or grammar, so you must be doing something right.

I have to admit that when people gripe at posters who obviously aren't writing their primary language, it makes me mad and a bit snarky. Similarly with people who have physiological issues, in part because i have a couple of kids with ADD - and one was convinced that she was stupid because she tried harder than other kids at school and didn't do half as well. It took seeing a psychologist for testing for her to believe she was in the upper 20th percentile for intelligence and the ADD was what was holding her back.

So screw 'em i say. If they can't be nice then they won't get any attention from me, nor from you i hope.

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RE: A little patience please. - 1/29/2013 4:41:38 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Patience isn't always in great supply, but if I know someone's making an honest effort to communicate, then I try to make an effort to understand them.

A well intended suggestion: make sure your paragraphs are seperate, that makes it much easier to read.


Separate.

(My work never ends).

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: A little patience please. - 1/29/2013 10:56:42 PM   
AthenaSurrenders


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fast reply

I'm sorry you felt sad. I've never noticed any problems with your posting. I think perhaps people are more likely to give well-intentioned criticism when they don't realise someone is struggling, so since you do a great job of catching any errors people don't know how much work you put in and think their suggestion is simple and helpful (does that make sense?). I'm sure the person in question didn't think he would hurt you so much.

My Dad is dyslexic, before these things were picked up at school, he was just 'stupid'. He's verbally articulate and quick thinking but struggles to put pen to paper. I notice his struggles and I know how self-conscious he is even though people on the outside do not because he's had years of covering it up.

I, on the other hand, just have verbal diarrhea. I understand grammar, I'm just incapable of keeping my sentences short.

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RE: A little patience please. - 1/29/2013 11:11:59 PM   
jlf1961


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Maria, if anyone gives you grief about your posts, some of us will track em down, force feed em laxatives and large amounts of taco bell, aided with some nice hot habanero peppers to add a little kick to when the laxatives take affect.

If we cant do that, I suggest you put the overly critical people on hide.

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RE: A little patience please. - 1/30/2013 2:30:32 AM   
TAFKAA


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There are two aspects here.

I don't pull people up on grammatical issues unless I'm arguing with them. In general, I'm aware that there's a spectacular variation in skill level with most lexical issues. Pulling people up as though I'm their teacher is simple pedantry without a purpose. I'll correct non-English speakers if they've expressed a desire to make their command of language more fluid, but that - I view - as simply assisting them.

Like many things, people often take the opportunity to make others feel inferior because it feeds a dark place within themselves. It's not hard to spot when they do this - and equally easy to mentally dismiss them for doing it.

Paragraphs are simply a cue to the reader that the writer has shifted to a new idea, a new time, a new place or a new event. There can be a certain artistry to it - and frankly I do it by 'feel' - but the essential idea is that the writer has paused for thought and is now forging forward with the results of that thought.

If there's a takeaway from all this, it's that such things are a convention to allow wide ranges of people to communicate effectively. However it is absolutely critical that you understand that this is purely to allow many to many communication. For whatever reason your brain operates in a marginally different fashion and the only practical effect is that you're not going to reach quite as wide an audience - although the percentage difference isn't huge.

Let me give you an example: The airline I fly insists that users not turn their cellphone on until they've left the plane and are well inside the terminal. Now why do they do this?

The answer is because in every situation there's a wide range of behavioural responses. Some people will obey completely, some will turn their phone on the moment they enter the terminal and some will say "fuck that' and turn their phone on while on the plane.

The real purpose is to ensure people don't turn their phone on UNTIL AFTER THEY LAND. By specifying deep inside the terminal, they move the "fuck that" edge of behavioural response until after the plane has landed. Whereas if they asked people to keep their phone off until after they land, there's plenty of fuckwits who would turn it on during approach.

Grammatical conventions operate in the same way. By insisting on a detailed, rigid way of doing things, they bring the vast majority of human beings within sufficient range of each other to ensure they can successfully communicate. In that sense, with you two, it's mission accomplished. The idea is not to be perfect, it's to ensure that you're within sufficient range of a rigid convention to ensure that other people can understand you.

Clearly, they can. So stop worrying about it - at least when it comes to casual settings. In business, the rules are different, but you'll evolve strategies to handle such occasions. Online and on message boards... it isn't even worth worrying about for five seconds.

So relax.

< Message edited by TAFKAA -- 1/30/2013 2:31:28 AM >


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RE: A little patience please. - 1/30/2013 3:45:06 AM   
MariaB


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Outlier, Three sentences, I think that’s a good way of remembering. I will take a look at ‘Tinyspell’. Thank you

LadyP, I’m glad you noticed. I am about to write to you on the other side because things have yet again changed regarding that paper! Pick up your email xoxo

Butch, you made me smile. Like you, I develop techniques so I don’t get caught out. The edit button is my friend, though I have been known to edit something that was perfectly fine and add a few grammatical mistakes!!

The problem with spell check and dyslexia is, it gives you more than one option or it underlines it in green and tells you to review your grammar. It can’t differentiate between ‘there’ and ‘their’ or ‘weather’ and ‘whether’.

Harry, I too was brought up by a grammar Nazi. My step mum was training to be a teacher and she would come home from college and do teaching practice on me! Can you imagine her frustration when I just couldn’t learn her methods?!?!
It was my grammar nazi step mum that instilled it in me that I was stupid and even though I now know I’m not, even though I have proved to myself and others that I’m not, I still have this trigger inside me that goes off when someone uses that word.
And that was more than 3 sentences!!

Kiwi, I know how your child felt/feels. Its great that you had her tested and that she’s now doing so well.

Athena, I think now days we have a lot more facilities available to us. It used to be that you were put in the dunce’s class and forgotten about.


quote:


Grammatical conventions operate in the same way. By insisting on a detailed, rigid way of doing things, they bring the vast majority of human beings within sufficient range of each other to ensure they can successfully communicate. In that sense, with you two, it's mission accomplished. The idea is not to be perfect, it's to ensure that you're within sufficient range of a rigid convention to ensure that other people can understand you.

TAFKAA, I can't tell you how important this bit of psychology is to me.
I’m going to take this to Steve and to my son. Thank you.











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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: A little patience please. - 1/30/2013 4:47:05 AM   
ShaharThorne


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I use Firefox because it has a built in spell check. Just love it!

I do have a form of learning disability. Had to repeat freshmen English when I was in high school. I also have a math block but we think it is dyscalculia (I am hoping that I am spelling that right). My daughter has it too and has to take developmental math in college right now. She says that the class is more her pace, not like it was in high school.

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RE: A little patience please. - 1/30/2013 4:25:06 PM   
wannapleez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Only yesterday I was publicly belittled because of my paragraphs.


Based on the timing and other factors, I am assuming that you are referring to a comment that I made in another thread. I cannot begin to tell you how sorry I am that I hurt you. My intention was nowhere near that. I was not aware of your dyslexia, nor that the disorder could cause the paragraph break issue. There are so many easily-controlled reasons for the paragraph problem, that I thought I was just poking a bit of light-hearted fun at one of those.

I even closed by describing your thoughts as "stuff this good". I'm not berating your misinterpretation here, but rather trying to point out my intention.

FWIW, I think you express yourself so well (here and elsewhere that I've seen) that I must say that you are doing an incredible job of working around the ramifications that you describe. I am glad that you have someone in your life to help you from time to time. It would be a shame to have the good thoughts that you have and not be able to communicate them.

Again, I'm very sorry for any pain I caused. "Public belittling" was the furthest thing from my mind. I realize that my intentions do not immediately eradicate the hurt, but please know that the intentions are/were all good.

P.S. While I think that this post is highly helpful to many, I would have had no idea of the hurt that I caused if others hadn't pointed it out. If I ever do anything remotely like this again (highly doubtful), please rip me a new one. :)

(in reply to MariaB)
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RE: A little patience please. (dyslexia) - 1/30/2013 4:30:05 PM   
wannapleez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
It was interesting to watch you master the paragraph issue over the course of this thread. If anyone else is wondering, you get the spacing by hitting Enter two times, not once.


Exactly. In reading this longer post, I see that you ARE starting a new paragraph with a new thought, and that all that you need to do (which it already appears that you are doing) is to hit Enter twice whenever you would ordinarily hit it once.

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RE: A little patience please. (dyslexia) - 1/30/2013 4:35:00 PM   
Level


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Wannapleez, if you are the one that "started" this, then kudos for your response.

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RE: A little patience please. - 1/30/2013 7:58:53 PM   
littlewonder


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I'm ok with a typo here and there or grammar mistakes. I make them too, especially when I'm tired or simply being too lazy after being on a keyboard all day long.

But if I can't read or make sense of anything at all and every single word is underlined in red as a typo, then I will either just pass it by or tell them to spell-check next time.

Now if they do not speak English or just recently just learned, then I give them the benefit of the doubt and it doesn't bother me as much. What bothers me is these young, supposedly bright students that are coming out of our schools and can't even spell their own names. I see it not just on here but at my workplace and everywhere else for that matter. It's sad really.

ETA: the only time I will call someone out is for a common misused term some use here which just really grates my nerves.....dominate and dominant. Once more, dominate is a verb. Dominant is a noun. Any newbies here, please try to remember this so I don't have to feel like fingers are being run across a chalkboard. Thank you!

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 1/30/2013 8:08:52 PM >


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RE: A little patience please. - 1/30/2013 8:43:10 PM   
DesFIP


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The problem I find is that I cannot determine through a post who has a true problem and who is just using their phone to post and not editing what they wrote.

One thing I have seen that is helpful, is that in sites such as here, where you can have a signature line, is to include the fact that you have a ld in the sig line. Usually people back off from being negative when they understand there is a problem.

Unfortunately there probably are ten lazy types for everyone with a diagnosable disorder.

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RE: A little patience please. - 1/30/2013 8:51:36 PM   
jlf1961


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If I ever achieve my dream of world domination, text speak is going out the window, with a 30 year prison sentence in Antarctica.

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RE: A little patience please. - 1/30/2013 8:58:15 PM   
DesFIP


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I'll vote for that.

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RE: A little patience please. - 1/30/2013 10:29:56 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The problem I find is that I cannot determine through a post who has a true problem and who is just using their phone to post and not editing what they wrote.



I periodically post on my phone and the difficult thing is there's no ability to "Preview" before posting. And on the tiny screen on the phone...it's very easy to miss stuff. So sometimes I do post from my phone and then go back and read it once it's on the thread (it's easier to read this way) and then edit any mistakes out.

Not the most ideal way to post.

And wannapleez, that was an impressive post.


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RE: A little patience please. - 1/31/2013 12:31:16 AM   
descrite


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quote:

You can not let the grammar and spelling nazi's get to you.



Yeah.

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RE: A little patience please. - 1/31/2013 2:02:27 AM   
metamorfosis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
As a dyslexic, I have always found it hard to structure sentences... One of the most difficult things for me is getting my thoughts down on paper. In my head I know exactly what I want to say but expressing it in the written word is often hopeless.


I've never noticed and am surprised you bothered to mention it at all. Chalk up another mark in the "perplexed" column.

Pam

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RE: A little patience please. - 1/31/2013 2:05:27 AM   
MariaB


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@wannapleez
I have dropped you a line in private but I wanted to publicly thank you for apologizing the way you did. It takes a bigger person than most to do such a thing and I for one have a huge amount of respect for you now.

Thank you

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RE: A little patience please. - 1/31/2013 2:47:06 AM   
Silentrunner26


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Of the few things I have read that you have wrote I have found you witty and smart . I have never thought of you as anything but an intelligent person if someone else has found this not to be then I think the problem is theirs and not yours .
Should someone complain about your spelling or tell you that they can't read what you wrote please remember one thing . Our minds are a wonderful thing because when properly used it can see a word and form what the writer is saying as long as the first and last letters are correct . This has been proven by many people many times over with my own spelling . One last thing when a man chooses a woman he looks for three things . Pleasing to the eye so he need not look to any other but her . Pleasing to his sences so he need not more than what she has . Third and most important to me someone who has intellect to keep my own mind sharp . Having a Barbie doll or a Valley girl around would have me in jail for trying to remove the "like" from her .

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