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Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/1/2013 8:36:38 AM   
vincentML


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Status: offline 		GENEVA, Jan 31 (Reuters) - U.N. human rights investigators called on Israel on Thursday to halt settlement expansion and withdraw all half a million Jewish settlers from the occupied West Bank, saying that its practices could be subject to prosecution as possible war crimes.
SOURCE

Israel continues to ignore the UN call for withdrawal of its encrouching settlements in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem.

How can the United States justify supporting Israel when it also ignores Obama's call for compliance to the Fourth Geneva Convention?

How can anyone justify the continuing land grab from the indigenous people? Isn't this a form of genocide?

Isn't the Israeli activity ironic and a contradiction of principle given the war crimes committed against the Jews by Nazi Germany and her allies?

Is the UN Human Rights Council anti-semitic?
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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/1/2013 8:58:57 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
GENEVA, Jan 31 (Reuters) - U.N. human rights investigators called on Israel on Thursday to halt settlement expansion and withdraw all half a million Jewish settlers from the occupied West Bank, saying that its practices could be subject to prosecution as possible war crimes.
SOURCE
Israel continues to ignore the UN call for withdrawal of its encrouching settlements in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem.
How can the United States justify supporting Israel when it also ignores Obama's call for compliance to the Fourth Geneva Convention?


Perhaps this isn't the only thing Israel's worthiness is based on? That being said, we do need to take a tougher stance on upholding the boundaries. I would love to see us put pressure on Israel to back off.

quote:

How can anyone justify the continuing land grab from the indigenous people? Isn't this a form of genocide?


Genocide? Really?

quote:

Isn't the Israeli activity ironic and a contradiction of principle given the war crimes committed against the Jews by Nazi Germany and her allies?


Yeah, encroaching out of your borders is the same principle of burning people simply based on heritage. Yup.

quote:

Is the UN Human Rights Council anti-semitic?


Could be. This particular "call out" isn't proof of it, but that doesn't mean the Council isn't. And, I'm not saying it is anti-semitic, either.


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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/1/2013 9:19:28 AM   
Switcheroo1983


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Status: offline 		A number of things.

1. Palestinians, as much as I care for them, are not the indigenous people, and neither are the Jews. The closet living ethnic group to being the indigenous people to the region are modern day Lebanese, especially Lebanese Christians who tend to be more Levant than Arabi.

2. Israel does need to cede the settlements or face sanctions.

3. While I can understand the Palestinians anger, electing Hamas was a bad move, though it shows how out of control the situation is.

4. Ghods/Jerusalem is forever going to be a hot spot politically and religiously, and there really is no solution to the City. No matter what decision is ever achieved, no one will be happy.

5. Peace in Palestine/Israel is highly unlikely, as much as we all want to see it. No matter how many Doves are released, all it takes is one Hawk to spoil the celebration.

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/1/2013 9:22:02 AM   
Switcheroo1983


Posts: 238
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Status: offline 		Why does the US continue to support Israel? Important question. Could be a hold-over from Cold War balances of power. I do not at all see a "Jewish conspiracy" nor antisemitism in US and UN policy on Israel.

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/1/2013 10:01:51 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

Is the UN Human Rights Council anti-semitic?

Yup an' am I a dreamin' or is there a major refugee crisis next door wit over 60 thousand killed?

quote:

The discrimination against Israel by the UN human rights system is not hard to find. The UN Human Rights Council has a permanent agenda of 10 items, one reserved for condemning Israel and one for considering all other 192 UN members. Almost 40 percent of all Council resolutions condemning specific countries have been directed at Israel alone. There have been more special sessions on Israel than any other country. Israel is the only UN state excluded from full membership in any of the UN’s regional groups, where key negotiations and information-sharing occurs.
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=301408

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/1/2013 10:56:47 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Switcheroo1983
Why does the US continue to support Israel? Important question. Could be a hold-over from Cold War balances of power. I do not at all see a "Jewish conspiracy" nor antisemitism in US and UN policy on Israel.


I've heard a few different reasons over the years. For starters is the lobbying arm of Israel in Washington, D.C. Surprisingly this lobbying group is very influential and wealthy to sponsor those that would be friendly to their cause. While not as powerful as say, the Christian or Firearm lobbies, it is still none the less, powerful in its own right. A second concept is that within 'right wing Christian circles' that Armageddon takes place soon after Israel's 'defeat'. Of course, they are pretty vague on what that defeat takes the form of exactly. Whether its invaded, bombed, or simply loses all support in Washington, D.C. Third, there are a number of US Citizens that support the concept of Israel but not the entity that is currently Israel (i.e. Ideal Goveremnt Philosophy verse the Reality of Goverment).

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/1/2013 11:35:30 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

Genocide? Really?

My bad. You are right. The proper term would be 'ethnic cleansing.' Sorry.

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/2/2013 11:44:04 PM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:


quote:

The discrimination against Israel by the UN human rights system is not hard to find. The UN Human Rights Council has a permanent agenda of 10 items, one reserved for condemning Israel and one for considering all other 192 UN members. Almost 40 percent of all Council resolutions condemning specific countries have been directed at Israel alone. There have been more special sessions on Israel than any other country. Israel is the only UN state excluded from full membership in any of the UN’s regional groups, where key negotiations and information-sharing occurs.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=301408

Stupid post.

The fact that the UN regularly (and totally justifiably) condemns Israel for its many crimes does not constitute evidence of bias, as the Zionist lobby claims. It's a bit like football players who lose every game blaming the referee for their losses ie. self serving trash. In one sense, the UN is the world's jury and reflecting the views of almost the entire world, finds Israeli policy and behaviour abhorrent.

If you commit as many crimes as the nasty terrorist State of Israel does, expect to be called to account. Who else has apartheid, ethnic cleansing, multiple gross violations of the Geneva Conventions (ie war crimes) targeted assassinations, State-organised abduction, torture and murder of children, regular massacres and atrocities etc all happening as part of official State policy?

What's not to condemn about an outlaw State that acts in this manner?

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/3/2013 6:06:17 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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Status: offline 		LOL Tweaky I kno ya have a real big thang bout da jewish state so I woundn't expect ya ta understand dat there are other conflicts in this here world dat are an' were in recent years much worse wit massively more civilians a dyin' an' people fleeing. yet da unhrc only focus on israel wit da horror in syria an' sudan before gettin almost a free pass. Same wit china in tibet an' religious persecution in da arab world. Sorry but dats bias darlin'.

< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 2/3/2013 6:25:50 AM >

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/3/2013 7:13:02 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
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Status: offline 		Why isn't it possible to condemn and discuss rationally Israel's land grabs and horrible treatment of the Palestinian settlers as the venal political bullshit that they are, without wrapping it in the revisionist rhetoric of 'genocide', and 'indigenous peoples'?




quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

GENEVA, Jan 31 (Reuters) - U.N. human rights investigators called on Israel on Thursday to halt settlement expansion and withdraw all half a million Jewish settlers from the occupied West Bank, saying that its practices could be subject to prosecution as possible war crimes.
SOURCE

Israel continues to ignore the UN call for withdrawal of its encrouching settlements in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem.

How can the United States justify supporting Israel when it also ignores Obama's call for compliance to the Fourth Geneva Convention?

How can anyone justify the continuing land grab from the indigenous people? Isn't this a form of genocide?

Isn't the Israeli activity ironic and a contradiction of principle given the war crimes committed against the Jews by Nazi Germany and her allies?

Is the UN Human Rights Council anti-semitic?



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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/3/2013 7:16:18 AM   
Powergamz1


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Status: offline 		That seems like a likely motive, there are still a lot of Cold War dynamics in play in that region, as Russia recently demonstrated in Syria.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Switcheroo1983

Why does the US continue to support Israel? Important question. Could be a hold-over from Cold War balances of power. I do not at all see a "Jewish conspiracy" nor antisemitism in US and UN policy on Israel.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/3/2013 7:44:05 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
If you commit as many crimes as the nasty terrorist State of Israel does, expect to be called to account. Who else has apartheid, ethnic cleansing, multiple gross violations of the Geneva Conventions (ie war crimes) targeted assassinations, State-organised abduction, torture and murder of children, regular massacres and atrocities etc all happening as part of official State policy?

China
Turkey
Congo
North Korea

Funny how some people, who totally are not antisemites of the worst sort, only care about one single place where people are being mistreated by their government.

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/3/2013 7:47:26 AM   
Switcheroo1983


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

That seems like a likely motive, there are still a lot of Cold War dynamics in play in that region, as Russia recently demonstrated in Syria.



Very true. Major world powers put a lot of time, money, and effort into the region during the Cold War, and it makes sense that major world powers might still be interested. NATO, especially the US, heavily backed Israel, and Warsaw Pact, especially Russia/USSR heavily backed much of the rest of the region. There were times the "powers that be" reversed roles. Prior to the "revolution" Iran was largely supported by the West. After the "revolution", the roles reversed. If you look at the region now, not too much has in foreign policy but much has changed in regional dynamics.

The more things change...

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/3/2013 7:54:30 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Switcheroo1983
Very true. Major world powers put a lot of time, money, and effort into the region during the Cold War, and it makes sense that major world powers might still be interested. NATO, especially the US, heavily backed Israel, and Warsaw Pact, especially Russia/USSR heavily backed much of the rest of the region. There were times the "powers that be" reversed roles. Prior to the "revolution" Iran was largely supported by the West. After the "revolution", the roles reversed. If you look at the region now, not too much has in foreign policy but much has changed in regional dynamics.
The more things change...


How ironic is it that the "revolution" in Iran that turned support from the West away from Iran, was caused and/or done by the West?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/3/2013 7:59:16 AM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

GENEVA, Jan 31 (Reuters) - U.N. human rights investigators called on Israel on Thursday to halt settlement expansion and withdraw all half a million Jewish settlers from the occupied West Bank, saying that its practices could be subject to prosecution as possible war crimes.
SOURCE

Israel continues to ignore the UN call for withdrawal of its encrouching settlements in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem.

How can the United States justify supporting Israel when it also ignores Obama's call for compliance to the Fourth Geneva Convention?

How can anyone justify the continuing land grab from the indigenous people? Isn't this a form of genocide?

Isn't the Israeli activity ironic and a contradiction of principle given the war crimes committed against the Jews by Nazi Germany and her allies?

Is the UN Human Rights Council anti-semitic?


It's tragic that all parties involved seem willing to do everything in their power to ensure that there is to be no peace there.

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/3/2013 8:06:38 AM   
Switcheroo1983


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri



How ironic is it that the "revolution" in Iran that turned support from the West away from Iran, was caused and/or done by the West?


Partially, yes. Trouble was brewin' in Iran with or without foreign policy/intervention. Iran was ready for change. Supporting Pahlavi (Shah) was a poor choice. Showing any form of weakness to Ruhollah Khomeini and his ilk was also a poor choice. When major world powers get involved in regions that are (largely) alien to them, bad things can happen. I definitely see where you are going, not arguing with you, but also try to understand Iran was ready for change, regardless of Western intervention.

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/3/2013 8:25:00 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

Why isn't it possible to condemn and discuss rationally Israel's land grabs and horrible treatment of the Palestinian settlers as the venal political bullshit that they are, without wrapping it in the revisionist rhetoric of 'genocide', and 'indigenous peoples'?

My use of the term genocide was a bit strong and I corrected it in post 6. However, not to ignore that many innocent Palestinians were killed by Israeli troops during the ethnic cleansing of late 1947/early 1948 and some 531 palestinian villages were destroyed or occupied:

According to Ilan Pappé, the 1948 Palestinian exodus consisted of the forced relocation of close to 800,000 Palestinians. This was more than half of the Palestinian population at that time. It also involved the destruction of 531 Palestinian villages, and the emptying of 11 entire Palestinian urban neighborhoods.[3] The event is referred to, by Palestinians, as the Nakba, the catastrophe.[1] The thesis that Pappé presents is that the Nakba was a calculated and intentionally executed ethnic cleansing perpetrated by Zionist Israelis. He states, with emphasis, that there is no room for ambivalence in this matter. His references include Zionist quotations and writings, military and political archives, and the diaries of David Ben-Gurion. SOURCE

As for indigenous people, the Palestinians were the vast majority in the land when the Zionist movement began circa 1880. they comprised maybe 90% of the population south of Lebenon. So, how are they not the indigenous people?

How do you propose a rational discourse about land grabs, horrible treatment of the Palestinians [who were not settlers as you state] and other political venal bullshit? How does it become "revisionist rhetoric?" Revisionist to what? Israeli propaganda? American news sources? Are you even aware of the Israeli New Historians? SOURCE

Would you have the world paint lipstick on this continuing atrocity?

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/3/2013 8:29:04 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

It's tragic that all parties involved seem willing to do everything in their power to ensure that there is to be no peace there.

A false equivalency when you take a close look at the Oslo Accords and the proposal Arafat walked away from at Camp David . . . they scream inequity. The Israelis are squatters on Palestinian land, not vice versa.

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/3/2013 8:37:55 AM   
Switcheroo1983


Posts: 238
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Status: offline 		VincentML,

I guess you and I see "indigenous" differently. I am talking about the original, pre-Arabian people. The "Islamic Conquest" as it is sometimes (largely inaccurately) called saw a major surge in migration/displacement all throughout the Levant. However, I can see why you refer to the Palestinians as indigenous. I'm just going back further in time. Anyway, let's drop that hatchet and move on.

What has happened to the Palestinians is horrific. What continues to happen to them is worse. I have to tell you, though, Israel is not entirely to blame, and neither are the Palestinians. There are numerous countries in the region that talk a LOUD talk about Palestine and it's beleaguered people but don't walk ANY walk when it comes to aiding them properly (I'm talking in a modern context, the early 1950's are a whole other ballgame). I get very angry when the governments in the region have the power and capability to help/check Israel, but instead want to merely play political games/talk tough. No, I am not saying "wipe Israel off of the map", I'm saying local governments need to render far more aid to the Palestinians/do more than feign outrage at Israel.

If you want some good links to sites about the conflict, let me know.

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RE: Israeli Settlements Violate Fourth Geneva Convention - 2/3/2013 9:04:54 AM   
vincentML


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Status: offline 		@Switcheroo

All politics, as they say, are local. The princes, kings and dictators of the Arab, Persian, and Turk nations have their own legitamacies to guard against impending insurgencies. You are quite correct in stating the surrounding nations have not been helpful. After the Iraqis were driven north in 1991, Kuwait expelled 200,000 Palestinians. However, let's not deflect from Israel's continuing effort to take all of Palestine for its State.

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