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RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 6:54:26 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

ORIGINAL: imdoingitagain
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: imdoingitagain
Don't you see? It's quite simple:
""We must do something, this is something, so we must do this."

Yes I see.

I joke about it but sadly that seems to be the logic train that is being followed when it comes to all of this gun control garbage.

Many "solutions" have been offered. I have yet to see gun enthusiasts embrace any of them.


Common refrain with Focus50, too. You support requirements regarding secure gun storage. You support more stringent background checks., do you not? I do, too, but maybe not to the same degree as you. I oppose the "solutions" that disarm those least likely to abuse the firearms. Is there a problem? Yes. Will making certain guns illegal? I don't believe it will.

I would be surprised if there weren't more gun enthusiasts pushing for more solutions if the solutions offered were more acceptable to gun enthusiasts.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 7:03:34 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: imdoingitagain
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: imdoingitagain
Don't you see? It's quite simple:
""We must do something, this is something, so we must do this."

Yes I see.

I joke about it but sadly that seems to be the logic train that is being followed when it comes to all of this gun control garbage.


If a politician thinks doing something, anything, will gain voters, he/she will push for it. I can pretty much guarantee you that some politician would pass a bill subsidizing people to put carrots up their noses (no freakin' clue why that hypothetical came to mind, but I'm going with it) if it will gain more votes than it would lose. Even with the bill not passing, the pol can still use his support of such as a way to garner those voters.

Sad but true

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 7:03:54 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		And yet I havent seen any of you offer any solutions.

"Oh yes, we need mandatory background checks". We have those. We need to close gun loopholes that allow for sales of any kind of weapon with a background check.

"Oh yes, we need mental health updates". Again, nothing new.

What else?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 7:14:17 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And yet I havent seen any of you offer any solutions.

"Oh yes, we need mandatory background checks". We have those. We need to close gun loopholes that allow for sales of any kind of weapon with a background check.

"Oh yes, we need mental health updates". Again, nothing new.

What else?

Gun bans are nothing new either.
Not just background checks but improving the system making all states not just the current 20 include mental health information.
Prosecuting starw buyers.
Prosecuting people who lie on the background check forms.
Prosecuting people who attempt an illegal purchase (convicted felons for example)
Stiffer penalties for use of a firearm in a crime.
All things that don't punish the innocent.
Unfortunatly when a person who favors bans sees this they say we already have background checks, however without these changes backgroud checks will not work.
ASW didn't work before.
D C ban didn't work.
Chicago ban didn't work.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 7:27:16 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Prosecuting people who attempt an illegal purchase (convicted felons for example)


Why not prosecute those who sell to convicted felons?

quote:

All things that don't punish the innocent.


You mean like the kid who picks up his dad's gun and kills himself with it?

Life sucks. We all make sacrifices for the common good. or are you advocating the return of automatic weapons as well to all gun owners?

You mentioned somewhere that as a result of the gun list that was published, someone broke into a house and tried to rob them. I found it interesting that, in one case, this person had a gun safe and the robber couldnt get into that safe. I doubt that homeowner views that safe as a punishment... it definitely was a deterrent.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 7:28:17 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

D C ban didn't work.
Chicago ban didn't work.


DC didnt work because it was unconstitutional.

Chicago doesnt work because, as strict as it is, the outlying communities are not as strict so guns filter in.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 7:38:38 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 7:53:20 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Prosecuting people who attempt an illegal purchase (convicted felons for example)


Why not prosecute those who sell to convicted felons?
That would be depriving a business man of his income...much like prosecuting people who hire illegals is a no no.

quote:

All things that don't punish the innocent.


You mean like the kid who picks up his dad's gun and kills himself with it?
Or the little girl who picked up her moms pink gun and killed herself...I think she was four?


<snip>



_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 8:00:28 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic









I think the answer to that question is obvious and it not because he was 17.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 8:05:32 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

D C ban didn't work.
Chicago ban didn't work.


DC didnt work because it was unconstitutional.

Chicago doesnt work because, as strict as it is, the outlying communities are not as strict so guns filter in.

Then why don't those surrounding areas have as high a crime rate as Chicago.
The D C ban had failed spectacularly before it was declared unconstitutional.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 8:07:58 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Prosecuting people who attempt an illegal purchase (convicted felons for example)


Why not prosecute those who sell to convicted felons?

quote:

All things that don't punish the innocent.


You mean like the kid who picks up his dad's gun and kills himself with it?

Life sucks. We all make sacrifices for the common good. or are you advocating the return of automatic weapons as well to all gun owners?

You mentioned somewhere that as a result of the gun list that was published, someone broke into a house and tried to rob them. I found it interesting that, in one case, this person had a gun safe and the robber couldnt get into that safe. I doubt that homeowner views that safe as a punishment... it definitely was a deterrent.

Thats what starw buyers are so I covered that. Anyone who knowingly sells to a felon would fall under the same catagory.
When did I say anything to the effect that I wanted machin guns passed around.
I am all for gun safes, I am not for criminalizing the victim.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 2/8/2013 8:10:32 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 8:13:48 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Thats what starw buyers are so I covered that. Anyone who knowingly sells to a felon would fall under the same catagory.


No its not.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 8:14:19 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
And yet I havent seen any of you offer any solutions.
"Oh yes, we need mandatory background checks". We have those. We need to close gun loopholes that allow for sales of any kind of weapon with a background check.


Who simply says we need a background check? More stringent background checks, absolutely.

I support the only sales not requiring checks be the ones between relatives, and ones to licensed dealers.

quote:

"Oh yes, we need mental health updates". Again, nothing new.


Do we have mental health statuses linked to background checks? If not, then, regardless of whether it's new or not, it's still a proposed (and necessary, IMO) solution.

quote:

What else?


Why does there have to be more? Why not try the ones that have been proposed? If those don't work, or don't work well enough, go to the next round of solutions.

Hell, I'm even okay with mandatory proof of safety class attendance and passing before even being allowed to have a permit for a gun. You could even have different classes for different classes of firearm. My only worry with something like that would be the costs of the classes, the permits, etc.

Ratchet up the fines/sentences for gun crimes.

Require proof of insurance for firearm permits, or maybe only certain classes of firearm.

The classes, and secure storage and insurance requirements would qualify as making it tougher on those least likely to abuse their firearms, but as long as the costs stay reasonable, I think it would be acceptable.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 8:16:53 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Thats what starw buyers are so I covered that. Anyone who knowingly sells to a felon would fall under the same catagory.


No its not.

I forgot to add "in my view" and with the changes I would favor it would be pretty much the same thing.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 8:29:31 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Then why don't those surrounding areas have as high a crime rate as Chicago.
The D C ban had failed spectacularly before it was declared unconstitutional.


If you cant buy it in one city, but can in another.... hmmm... gee.

quote:

I am all for gun safes, I am not for criminalizing the victim.


Why not? Doesnt someone become a criminal for not having insurance for a car? Lets see.... you get a ticket.. a fine... maybe even jail time. Driving without insurance is a crime. And yet something like not having a gun safe should be treated differently?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 8:30:57 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Thats what starw buyers are so I covered that. Anyone who knowingly sells to a felon would fall under the same catagory.


No its not.

I forgot to add "in my view" and with the changes I would favor it would be pretty much the same thing.


A straw purchase is someone who intentionally buys for someone they know cant buy for themselves. It does not cover the sellers who dont care when they are simply looking for a quick buck and dont want to go through a licensed seller.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 8:32:51 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Thats what starw buyers are so I covered that. Anyone who knowingly sells to a felon would fall under the same catagory.


No its not.

I forgot to add "in my view" and with the changes I would favor it would be pretty much the same thing.


A straw purchase is someone who intentionally buys for someone they know cant buy for themselves. It does not cover the sellers who dont care when they are simply looking for a quick buck and dont want to go through a licensed seller.

I know the technical difference. It is already illegal and if it isn't being prosecuted it should be.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 8:35:11 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Then why don't those surrounding areas have as high a crime rate as Chicago.
The D C ban had failed spectacularly before it was declared unconstitutional.


If you cant buy it in one city, but can in another.... hmmm... gee.

quote:

I am all for gun safes, I am not for criminalizing the victim.


Why not? Doesnt someone become a criminal for not having insurance for a car? Lets see.... you get a ticket.. a fine... maybe even jail time. Driving without insurance is a crime. And yet something like not having a gun safe should be treated differently?

Still doesn't explain why crime is lower in those other cities than in Chicago does it? The only difference is that the good guys in those cities can buy guns too.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 8:39:14 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Criminals aren`t going to obey speed limits.......Is this a reason to forgo speed limits?



The "we already have gun laws" crowd are holding up a sieve......pointing to it and saying "hey.......look at all the places where there aren`t any holes".



For these laws to be affective....they have to be universal and cover everyone/everywhere.


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/8/2013 8:41:14 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Then why don't those surrounding areas have as high a crime rate as Chicago.
The D C ban had failed spectacularly before it was declared unconstitutional.


If you cant buy it in one city, but can in another.... hmmm... gee.

quote:

I am all for gun safes, I am not for criminalizing the victim.


Why not? Doesnt someone become a criminal for not having insurance for a car? Lets see.... you get a ticket.. a fine... maybe even jail time. Driving without insurance is a crime. And yet something like not having a gun safe should be treated differently?


I fully support your views, however and at least in California not having auto insurance is not a crime, yes it is a violation of the Vehicle Code. The Vehicle Code, only requires that a Driver be finanicial responsibile for $35,000.00 per accident. Auto Insurance is the easiest however if you have the money you can get a bond for $35,000.00 but you will need a new one after accident. Now driving and getting into an accident and not have some means of finanicial responsibility, that is a crime.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 120
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