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Home Defence - 2/10/2013 4:46:57 PM   
MasterJohnSteed


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Thinking of getting a pump Action Shotgun for home defense. I do not plan on going hunting with the thing, I just need something to blow a hole through someone if they come in the house.

Anyone have any suggestions on make or model? price range I should look at?

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 4:48:13 PM   
LafayetteLady


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First look at your state laws and find out whether they support you blowing a hole in someone who comes in your house.

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 4:51:23 PM   
jlf1961


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Personally for home protection, I prefer an automatic pistol, in my house I have a colt model 1911 .45 ACP pistol.

Check the state laws on using deadly force to defend your home before you actually shoot someone.

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 4:55:24 PM   
lmpishlilhellcat


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I was taught to shoot using a smith and wesson 9mm. It seems to do the job just fine.

Note: Not that I've ever blown a hole through an actual person or anything other than a target.

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 4:59:24 PM   
MasterJohnSteed


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SC has castle law. You come to my house, come in my house I have the right to use deadly force!

< Message edited by MasterJohnSteed -- 2/10/2013 5:03:10 PM >


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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 5:05:27 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJohnSteed

Thinking of getting a pump Action Shotgun for home defense.

A long gun may not be the wisest choice in close quarters, and shorter models are illegal in some states. But if that's not the case where you live, and if money is secondary, then you might want to take a look at some of the offerings from Tromix Lead Delivery Systems:



Otherwise, a .45 will do the job, and if you choose a compact model then you'll have an easily concealable carry weapon as well.

K.

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 5:11:59 PM   
BamaD


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You can get a good riot gun, pump shotgun with a relatively short barrell, For under 200.
you can get one that is semiauto for about double that.
You do need to consiter this .
A handgun can be kept where it is easier to get to than a shotgun.
A handgun is also easier to go through doorways with, being shorter.
The shotgun has more punch.
The shotgun doesnot penetrate interior walls like a handgun(depending on the loads).
You need to get what fits you best.
9 mm shoots nice but will have a hard time stopping a crackhead.
45 acp .40 or .44 will do much better.
most important get what you can handle, a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .50.
Hopefully you will never fire one in anger.
If you don't know guns get someone who does to teach you, it would be real imbarrasing to shoot yorself, of to forget to take the safety off.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 2/10/2013 5:14:11 PM >

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 5:22:16 PM   
MasterJohnSteed


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I prefer knives, and am trained for close quarters with a knife. But I see people moving into my neighborhood that honestly I am not sure of. I don't want to wake up some night with a crack or meth head busting down my door. I want to stop that SOB cold!

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 5:32:17 PM   
OsideGirl


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Mossberg 500s are inexpensive and reliable.

Personally, I use a pistol. If someone is shoving their way through the door, I want something that I can fire in a close quarters situation.

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 5:36:35 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Mossberg 500s are inexpensive and reliable.

Personally, I use a pistol. If someone is shoving their way through the door, I want something that I can fire in a close quarters situation.

I'm pro-choice, I keep a shotgun and a pistol handy.

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 5:38:22 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJohnSteed

I prefer knives, and am trained for close quarters with a knife. But I see people moving into my neighborhood that honestly I am not sure of. I don't want to wake up some night with a crack or meth head busting down my door. I want to stop that SOB cold!

A knife sounds too much like a fair fight, can't have that.

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 6:21:51 PM   
Duskypearls


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I had a great Remington 870 Wingmaster, 12 gauge pump I loved dearly. Think it cost me about $230 at the time.

< Message edited by Duskypearls -- 2/10/2013 7:12:18 PM >

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 6:23:43 PM   
theRose4U


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Doberman is in deep doodoo if they get past him. Pistol makes sleeping easy but $200 for shotgun sounds like a smart idea.

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 6:27:42 PM   
tommonymous


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My "fun" job is working in a gun shop. I'll try to get through everything that's been addressed so far in the thread, starting with your specific questions.

1. If I was buying a shotgun for home defense right now, it would be a used Remington 870 Police. The 870 has three basic models: The 870 Express, 870 Wingmaster, and 870 Police. The Express is the bottom of the barrel and I literally would not take a new-production one if someone offered it for free. (Unless declining would be an insult, obviously.) The Wingmaster is one step up, the current top of the line. They have decent fit and finish and good bluing, and they are built with parts selected for quality on the assembly line. The Police is no longer available for commercial sale. It was the top of the line when it was produced, and these guns were assembled one-at-a-time from the best parts picked off the line in a separate part of the factory. As I said, you can't buy them new anymore but that's what I'd buy. I'm not sure on price since I haven't looked at them lately, and demand has gotten really stupid. So, the market's all fucked up right now.

2. Buying new, at a minimum, I'd plan to spend at least $500 on something like a Browning BPS. The advantages to this are that it's a truly ambidextrous shotgun, so it can be shot lefty or righty. I'd stay away from the cheapest options, since they tend to be a bit more finicky. Put this way, if you're betting your life and trying to save $200 dollars, how dumb will you be if you lose? Federal law requires 18.5" as a minimum length for a shotgun barrel, but I'd go with 20-22 inches if I'm choosing. They're roughly equal in terms of handling, but you'll get one or two more rounds, and some added velocity from the increased expansion time.

3. Enough power to do the job: A shotgun is a fantastic option, but I'll also discuss handgun calibers briefly.

Loaded with about #5 birdshot, a shotgun load will penetrate a wall, and it will harm someone on the other side, though likely not seriously unless you hit them in the eyes. (Not that you'd be trying to do this, sometimes shots miss.) But, it likely won't kill your neighbors or the kids down the hall or up/ downstairs if you miss your target. That said, if you hit a person in the chest at in-home distances (10-15 feet) with a 12 gauge or 20 gauge shotgun load, you'll have a pattern about as big across as a fist at the largest. It will kill them, and that's what you should mentally prepare yourself to do if you plan to have a gun for home defense.

As was mentioned, pistols are more maneuverable, but require more practice. As has also been said, smaller bullets (within reason) on target do a much better job of maximizing danger to the intruder and minimizing danger to everyone else on the block. And I do mean block. The cheapest practice rounds with which to practice are 9mm. Due to advances is bullet construction and powder technology, 9mm defense ammunition performs similarly to .40 S&W. There is a brand of ammunition from Hornaday, called Critical Duty, which has 9mm outperforming 40 S&W, even the .40 Critical Duty. (Please don't ask me how or why...) The largest practical caliber for a semi-auto is .45acp. It's a great round, but costs about double what 9mm costs to practice with. So, which will you practice more with? (And hence become more dangerous to intruders and less dangerous to everyone else with?) Everything from 9mm and up will penetrate several sheetrock walls if you miss your target, with .357 mag and .44 mag penetrating into neighboring houses on a miss, and quite possibly neighboring rooms even on a hit.

4. Minnesota does not have a castle doctrine. As the law stands here, one must have no other options than to shoot in order to be "in the clear." (Including asking nicely for the intruder to leave, this being Minnesota.) The common (and I think sensible) plan of action is to gather the family into the far end of one room, close the door, and call the police. Tell the people inside that you're doing so, and if they open the door and step into the room, kill them. Your insurance company will cover all your electronics, etc. but killing someone is a permanent decision. It is also extremely costly in terms of dollars (because you will likely end up in civil court if not criminal court) and psychological trauma to you and everyone else present. It's not a decision to be taken lightly, or made in the heat of the moment. Also, please keep in mind the idea that if you keep a gun at home for defense, and are not 100% committed to using it to kill someone (as opposed to scaring or wounding them) once you confront them (and practicing with said gun at the range, frequently), you will be more dangerous to yourself, your family, and your community than if you did not have the gun in the first place.

EDIT: Have you given any thought to a large, friendly (to you and yours) dog?

Sorry for the book, apologies for anything that's become redundant.

< Message edited by tommonymous -- 2/10/2013 6:28:55 PM >


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And just because it worked for you, doesn't mean it will (or ought to) work for everyone.

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 7:49:18 PM   
TNDommeK


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Hubby agrees with Duskypearls. The Remington is the way to go.

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 7:51:45 PM   
littlewonder


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Are you planning on taking home defense lessons with this gun? And if you're that afraid of your neighbors, have you thought about a self defense class?

But I really do hope you get some kind of class before operating that gun.


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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 8:12:51 PM   
Duskypearls


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

Hubby agrees with Duskypearls. The Remington is the way to go.


If only I still had that sweet thing now. Had to sell her 10 yrs. ago when times got hard.

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 8:36:47 PM   
nighthawk3569


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJohnSteed

Thinking of getting a pump Action Shotgun for home defense. I do not plan on going hunting with the thing, I just need something to blow a hole through someone if they come in the house.

Anyone have any suggestions on make or model? price range I should look at?


Buying used, find a Remington 870 Wingmaster(Police model, if you happen to find an affordable one in good shape) in 20 gauge...19-20 in barrel...load it with 2¾ low-brass shells, #5 or #6 shot. Buying new, same 870 Remington with the buckshot barrel(has rifle-type sights), same loads.
Buy a case of shells...practice fire a box a week, at least...until you can hit what you're shooting at...under low-light, stressfull conditions.

'hawk

And if you have to use it, in real life, don't forget to double-tap.



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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 8:48:39 PM   
midmichiganguy


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Personally I keep 2 guns handy in my bedroom. My first gun is my Judge Public Defender 2 inch barrel .45/410 combo. It is a great little snubnose shotgun pistol that you can mix rounds with. For me personally because it is used for self-defense I pack it with .410 buckshot. That way I don't have to worry so much about it going through my walls and into a neighbors house. Plus the buckshot means I don't have to have precision aiming; I just have to be in the ballpark. It is not like I am shooting the flame out of a candle or anything. Rather I am shooting center mass and woe to anyone on the receiving end! The other round that it is made for is the .45 long colt cowboy round. Basically I big ass round that can kill most north American large game animals. While the appeal of hitting someone with that in self-defense is there I would much rather not take the risk of that thing inadvertantly blowing through someone and hitting an innocent on the other side. Since I live in wild boar country and there have been instances of anti-hunters taking pot shots at unsuspecting hunters, the .45 loads are what are packed when I am in the field for self-defense against angry boars and potential nut jobs who don't like hunters shooting at me. After all I am not comfortable defending myself against either scenario if I am out squirrel hunting with a single shot 12 gauge packed with birdshot!

The other weapon I keep handy is my Mossberg 500 persuader pump action 12 gauge shotgun with pistol grip. Automatics are nice but they tend to jam and I don't like relying on them. With this relatively inexpensive baby I can rack a shotgun shell that will echo throughout my house and tell anyone nearby that I am serious and ready to go. I keep this thing loaded with buckshot and it is my go-to weapon of choice for those people who think breaking into my place will be easy during the night. The nice thing about a weapon like this is the sheer psychological factor it brings to the table. If you are in a bedroom and you hear glass breaking or someone coming through the doorway, nothing will stop them quicker then that loading sound a pump action makes. No one wants to fuck with someone packing a shotgun in the middle of the night. Hopefully it never comes to that but if it does then I would rather scare someone off then have to shoot them.

Now for everyday carry I keep on my person my P-32 Kel-tec in a customized hip carry case that looks like an I-phone case. It is a tiny .32 caliber but is also the preferred backup weapon of law enforcement. Tiny, lightweight, functional, and very discreet. In my line of work I have seen my co-workers beaten, robbed, and in one case nearly raped and so this is my everyday standby weapon when I am out and about. It may not have significant knock down power but it is better than nothing and it will get someones attention.

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RE: Home Defence - 2/10/2013 8:48:54 PM   
EsotericLady


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I was told this by someone in law enforcement. Don't use a gun unless you are prepared to kill someone.
Nice post, tommonymous! Thanks for all the info you shared with all of us! : )

quote:

ORIGINAL: tommonymous

Your insurance company will cover all your electronics, etc. but killing someone is a permanent decision. It is also extremely costly in terms of dollars (because you will likely end up in civil court if not criminal court) and psychological trauma to you and everyone else present. It's not a decision to be taken lightly, or made in the heat of the moment. Also, please keep in mind the idea that if you keep a gun at home for defense, and are not 100% committed to using it to kill someone (as opposed to scaring or wounding them) once you confront them (and practicing with said gun at the range, frequently), you will be more dangerous to yourself, your family, and your community than if you did not have the gun in the first place.


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