quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2


If your brother had been attacked by a pit bull instead of a corgi, he would probably be dead.
Motives, owners, quasi-racist canine profiling are not the issue. Size and power are. Notice we can keep cats for pets but not lions? Would you rather be attacked by that cat, or by a lion? I'd prefer to be attacked by a corgi than a pit bull.

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


Actually, the analogy is not false at all. She is pointing out that SIZE makes a difference in the amount of damage that can be done by an attacking animal. Not whether an animal is domesticated or wild. And the fact is that small animals can't do as much damage as larger animals, and that is a point that her analogy makes very well.

Also, any animal, pitbulls included, doesn't have to be MIStrained to possibly be vicious...only UNtrained.

Finally, after going back through the various posts, I don't see anywhere that she called for "banning" any animal. so "seriously", where did you come up with that accusation?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

exactly, impish -
a welsh corgi attacked my brother and he had to have stitches as a child.
a cat attacked me and caused me to need an operation
a thoroughbred horse attacked my mom's horse. =p

so let's exterminate welsh corgis, cats, and thoroughbreds because people in my family have had bad experiences. horses can be pretty bad biters; i went to school with a kid who suffered such severe injuries from horse bites that he had to have his leg amputated. not even remotely kidding.

the problem with the media hype about pits is that the media ignores non-sensational animal attack stories and focuses on "see! another pitbull!" when i was growing up, german shepherds were the villain du jour. and rottweilers, too. now we've moved on to pits; so who else will be next? human beings need to take responsibility, collectively, rather than blaming animals for the things we cause them to do.

when we push mountain lions out of their natural habitat and they come into ours - whose fault is that?
when disgruntled elephants attack trainers who have systematically abused them for 20 years - whose fault is that?
and when dogs who have been singled out by the worst of our kind, abused, mistreated, forced to fight to the death, turn out to not be the best "dog citizens" - whose fault is that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
<snip>
a welsh corgi attacked my brother and he had to have stitches as a child.
<snip>

If your brother had been attacked by a pit bull instead of a corgi, he would probably be dead.
Motives, owners, quasi-racist canine profiling are not the issue. Size and power are. Notice we can keep cats for pets but not lions? Would you rather be attacked by that cat, or by a lion? I'd prefer to be attacked by a corgi than a pit bull.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
<snip>
a welsh corgi attacked my brother and he had to have stitches as a child.
<snip>

If your brother had been attacked by a pit bull instead of a corgi, he would probably be dead.
Motives, owners, quasi-racist canine profiling are not the issue. Size and power are. Notice we can keep cats for pets but not lions? Would you rather be attacked by that cat, or by a lion? I'd prefer to be attacked by a corgi than a pit bull.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

Owners are not the issue. The power and propensity of the dog is the issue. Crappy pit bull owners sometimes have pit bulls that attack. Wonderful, conscientious, responsible pit bull owners sometimes have pit bulls that attack.

Yes, we can keep lions or chimps as pets, but permits and appropriate housing are required. We can't just go buy a lion and keep it in our suburban home, the way we can a pit bull.

Where I live (California), the most common pit bull mauling or fatal attack is by the family pit (or pits) against a toddler family member. The owners aren't Michael Vick types. They don't abuse their pit or train them to kill. The owner's' invariable lament is "my pit bull has never hurt a fly!".
And this may be true. Nonetheless, the child is mauled or dead. Point me to the statistics of corgi-caused deaths, are they commensurate with pit bull-caused deaths?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DogTrainr4NewPet

I'm an AKC registered dog trainer, and exotic animal trainer. I have credentials from 3 high ranked animal training and management schools. Ill only comment here once, so don't bother bashing.

Pits are not the #1 most volatile dog. According to the AKC and the department of statistics, Golden retrievers bite more people annually than pits. The reason? Poor exercise and training. Same as pits that bite, and mastiff, Doberman, and Dalmatian.. Poor pit owners ARE to blame. ZERO of my graduates have had issues. And I've rehabilitated fighting pits. So, consider your facts closely before accusing an entire breed based off your biased opinion.

And for the record, I dislike pits. I think they are ugly, slow, and serve no purpose other than to look menacing. Are they good dogs? Yes. But so are shih tzu. Don't particularly like those either. Doesn't mean I've got an agenda against them.

quote:

Owners are not the issue. The power and propensity of the dog is the issue. Crappy pit bull owners sometimes have pit bulls that attack. Wonderful, conscientious, responsible pit bull owners sometimes have pit bulls that attack.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Owners are not the issue. The power and propensity of the dog is the issue. Crappy pit bull owners sometimes have pit bulls that attack. Wonderful, conscientious, responsible pit bull owners sometimes have pit bulls that attack.

Pit bulls are not the dogs with the strongest jaws, that distinction belongs to the Mastiff breeds. Those dogs will break bones with a bite, but they are not nearly as feared as pits, and Mastiffs were bred to be war dogs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


I don't mean to cast unfair aspersions, but every time I've seen a story like this one the dogs were pit bulls. And I've had a couple of personal experiences that didn't change my opinion. So while I don't mean to contradict anything anyone has said, I'm not convinced.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

The reason you don't hear about Corgi attacks, or toy Poodles, Yorkshires, etc. is because they don't get reported. Why? Because they are small dogs and people don't consider them "vicious," even though smaller dogs can be just as vicious.

A word about dogs being "bred to have aggressive" tendencies or it being "genetics."

Dobermans and Rots have often been nicknamed "junk yard dogs," since they have a history of guarding junk yards, and yes, those dogs are aggressive.

Conscientious breeders DO breed for temperment, just as "bad" breeders do. Breeders doing it for fighting dogs take the most aggressive dogs and breed them, so it is part of the genetic makeup of the dog (at least they hope). Likewise, taking two dogs with good temperments is the goal for "good" dogs. When either is added to the "desired" home (fighting dog or family pet), those temperments are reinforced through training. This is not rocket science, it is common sense.

I have raised dogs (including being involved in breeding) all my life. I have rehabilitated abused dogs into wonderful family pets. Smaller dogs tend to be more high strung, resulting in them being prone to biting. This is often why they aren't good for families with small children. Even so, small children will often do something to "provoke" the bite, even if unwittingly.

My son just got a pit mix puppy. She is 13 weeks old. Prior to adoption, we met BOTH the sire and dam to see their basic temperments (which was good). "Sassy" is in a home with a 2 year old child (my granddaughter), and my granddaughter is being "trained" right along with Sassy. She is being taught NOT to put her face in the dog's face, even though Sassy is your typical happy, goofy puppy. But as adults with common sense, we realize a two year old can't differentiate between her dog and others, so the "no face" rule applies. My granddaughter loves animals and naturally wants to hold them, but doesn't know how to do it properly, so the poor puppy (and my youngest cat) put up with a lot.

It most definitely IS primarily how a dog is trained and socialized that makes a dog dangerous or safe. Sassy is in a home with two cats, which was a concern of mine. She has seen them and is completely uninterested, although the cats aren't happy about her and growl and hiss. The dog doesn't even acknowledge their existence, which is funny because she is a puppy.

So what is my point? The people who speak out against certain breeds, any breed as you have done proves one thing; that you really don't know much about dogs or their behavior and your fears are based on the type of ignorance that comes from a lack of knowledge. If I had even a smidgen of concern regarding pit bulls, even though my son is an adult, there would be no pit bull puppy going near my grandchild. Frankly, I'm more concerned for the dog's safety than my grandchild's.

The other people that tend to be the most uneducated about dogs? Amazingly, those who "volunteer" at shelters, as we have already seen proof of by one poster here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DogTrainr4NewPet

I'm an AKC registered dog trainer, and exotic animal trainer. I have credentials from 3 high ranked animal training and management schools. Ill only comment here once, so don't bother bashing.

Pits are not the #1 most volatile dog. According to the AKC and the department of statistics, Golden retrievers bite more people annually than pits. The reason? Poor exercise and training. Same as pits that bite, and mastiff, Doberman, and Dalmatian.. Poor pit owners ARE to blame. ZERO of my graduates have had issues. And I've rehabilitated fighting pits. So, consider your facts closely before accusing an entire breed based off your biased opinion.

And for the record, I dislike pits. I think they are ugly, slow, and serve no purpose other than to look menacing. Are they good dogs? Yes. But so are shih tzu. Don't particularly like those either. Doesn't mean I've got an agenda against them.