RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (Full Version)

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GotSteel -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/2/2013 3:12:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra
I am pretty sure that at least prepubescent girls, unless teached otherwise, are rather indifferent to sharing a bathroom with boys.


I don't know, I seem to recall concern about cooties.

However, I do think we're moving toward the end of segregation and in not too many decades this sort of thing won't be an issue.




calamitysandra -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/2/2013 3:32:36 PM)

While the cooties seem to be an anglo-centric thing, I am pretty sure they are not bathroom specific, are they. [;)]




tweakabelle -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/3/2013 2:36:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

FR...

For the most part, the overwhelming majority of 6 to 18 year old girls and young women do NOT wish to share bathroom facilities with 6 to 18 year old boys and young men and neither do their parents and guardians.

This is a WOMEN'S right issue.

Oh my! What a doozy of a post!!!!

A male (or so I presume ) who advocates looney Right ideology and politics, telling us what a Womans' Rights issue is .....

Whatever next? A rant on the people-friendly aspects of politcal violence? Or why racism is a positive force for shaping minority lives? Or how hostile military invasions and occupations are actually good for the Third World countries?




SadistDave -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/3/2013 2:55:06 AM)

Here's the thing.... Boy parts belong in one bathroom and girl parts belong in another bathroom for a very simple reason. It' not homophoibic. It's not because of transgendered people. It's because once there is an acceptable reason for people to be alone in a bathroom with a child of the opposite sex then bad people will exploit it. I don't think there's a baby raper in the world that would hesitate to shave his legs and put on a dress if he had free rein to be alone in a bathroom with a little girl.

It's like opening up a a semi-private sexual hunting ground for pre-pubescent children. Instead of a license, someone only needs to be willing to say they are transgender. Eventually some liberals underage daughter will be raped in a bathroom by some legally savvy lunatic wearing a dress. Apparently that's what it will take before they figure it out.

-SD-




Lucylastic -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/3/2013 6:07:28 AM)

You think there arent already pedes doing that already?
are you really that uninformed and ridiculous?How about we put armed guards in any loo that a child may wonder into???




GotSteel -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/3/2013 7:43:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Oh my! What a doozy of a post!!!!

A male (or so I presume ) who advocates looney Right ideology and politics, telling us what a Womans' Rights issue is .....

Whatever next? A rant on the people-friendly aspects of politcal violence? Or why racism is a positive force for shaping minority lives? Or how hostile military invasions and occupations are actually good for the Third World countries?


lol, yeah a guy informing women about what women want is fairly silly.

Don't get me wrong though, I do think there's a discussion to be had about the balance between the right of the majority not to be participants in someone's roleplay and the right of the individual not to be oppressed.




GotSteel -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/3/2013 8:10:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
Here's the thing.... Boy parts belong in one bathroom and girl parts belong in another bathroom for a very simple reason. It' not homophoibic. It's not because of transgendered people. It's because once there is an acceptable reason for people to be alone in a bathroom with a child of the opposite sex then bad people will exploit it.


That does absolutely nothing to keep men from molesting little boys which is why the actual solution to that problem which has been implemented in schools and so forth is to not leave an adult alone with a child.




thishereboi -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/3/2013 8:44:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

FR...

For the most part, the overwhelming majority of 6 to 18 year old girls and young women do NOT wish to share bathroom facilities with 6 to 18 year old boys and young men and neither do their parents and guardians.

This is a WOMEN'S right issue.

Oh my! What a doozy of a post!!!!

A male (or so I presume ) who advocates looney Right ideology and politics, telling us what a Womans' Rights issue is .....

Whatever next? A rant on the people-friendly aspects of politcal violence? Or why racism is a positive force for shaping minority lives? Or how hostile military invasions and occupations are actually good for the Third World countries?


Are you suggesting that most girls that age wouldn't have a problem if the bathrooms were all shared by boys and girls? Or most boys for that matter? I can remember a few times when a guy would walk into the girls bathroom at school or try to look through the door and the reaction was not inviting at all. More along the lines of "get the fuck out of here"




OttersSwim -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/3/2013 9:46:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Don't get me wrong though, I do think there's a discussion to be had about the balance between the right of the majority not to be participants in someone's roleplay and the right of the individual not to be oppressed.


Wow, to say that transgendered people are "roleplaying" just really says that you have no concept of what being transgendered is really about.

And as to the whole guys dressing as women in order to perpetrate crime...it is a ludicrous argument that pairs up well with the assault weapons ban. We should ban transgendered people from using certain restrooms because there is a chance that some lunatic will use that to create mayhem and commit crime. The exact argument on the other foot. It's beyond silly.

Transgendered people simply want to be authentic, be themselves, be accepted for the gender that they -are-. This is true whether you are 6 or 60. I have one thought when I use the restroom, and it has nothing to do with getting an eyeful of some woman's nether parts.

Go to google and type in "Transgender + bathroom + assault". What you will see there is a laundry list of people perpetrating crimes -against- transgendered people in restrooms - NOT the other way around.

But society is changing. I hear more and more about open and out transgendered kids in schools today, and so the debate will continue. At least we are finally talking about it...




estimer -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/3/2013 10:02:47 AM)

Wow that's lots of reading.




GotSteel -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/4/2013 8:47:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
Wow, to say that transgendered people are "roleplaying" just really says that you have no concept of what being transgendered is really about.


I certainly don't understand what's going on in a transgendered persons head, I wouldn't claim to have a clue. I can also understand that the term role playing might seem to carry some negative connotations, that the word playing conveys a sense that you're not serious or whatever. I've heard that sort of argument from the "real" slavery crowd at any rate.

So let me say that it's not my intention to imply a lack of commitment with the term role play, I get that there's a tendency to get really into the whole thing. I use the term role play to differentiate between real slavery and "real" slavery, animals and furries, women and transgendered men, and so on and so forth.

Do you have a better term for that distinction?




Powergamz1 -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/4/2013 10:09:25 PM)

To be fair, there is no one on this planet who knows what being transgendered (or female, or black, or Jewish, or disabled, or a veteran, et al.) is all about. We are lucky if we can figure even part of ourselves out.

And just as people can have more than one experience under a label, so too can words have more than one meaning... 'roleplay' doesn't have to be a derogatory term.
Gender identities are often referred to as roles in the social sciences, and not everyone is committed to a full blown transition from the first moment they think about such things.

Some people under the umbrella *do* consider it adopting a role for a short while and playing/acting that role out in various settings from private hookups to public places.

The discussion would be worth having, especially since there is a strong element of consent/lack of consent potentially there.




quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

Wow, to say that transgendered people are "roleplaying" just really says that you have no concept of what being transgendered is really about.






SadistDave -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 1:52:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

You think there arent already pedes doing that already?
are you really that uninformed and ridiculous?How about we put armed guards in any loo that a child may wonder into???


Frankly I don't give a shit what you do in Canada. Canada is extremely lenient on rapists, child molesters, and pedophiles. Perhaps if you people gave a fuck about your kids up there, you would try to do something to stop it from happening in your own country.

I have no doubt that the pedos are having a field day with Canada's children. No one up there cares about children enough to protect them. Here in America most people actually take a pretty dim view of those who do bad things to women and children, though.

-SD-




Lucylastic -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 2:48:41 AM)

What a dipshit response, dave really,pathetic. I'm sorry[8|] you dont like canadians or brits calling you out on your idiotic post but it has nothing to do with country or nationality, it has to do with gender identity and criminal pedes pretending to be something they are not. Neither of which is just one countries issue. Neither did I make such a statement suggesting it was. Take your comment and turn it into a diamond.




LadyPact -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 2:52:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SthrnCom4t


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
You are an adult who is fully aware of the dangers of putting yourself on the line. We are talking about a 6 year old who has no clue who's parents are putting her in the spot light. Do you seriously think that by letting everyone in the community know what is going on is going to help this child?


I was thinking about this on my drive to work yesterday. I don't have kids, but got a blip on the radio. What to do in this situation? My first thought was move to a different city and enroll my child as a girl. Figure out within the privacy of the family and give the child time to 'be' who she feels she is without a massive societal media fest.' Really, she's 6. Six year olds are 'older and wiser' than when I was 6 just because they have access to more information. If the parents don't listen, they aren't supportive, if they do listen, they are pushing. I think being a parent is probably one of the hardest jobs in the world because of the lasting influence your own personal views have in the shaping of another's world.

Unless kids are playing with each other's genitals in the restroom (yeah it happens, but that's not the norm) then where is the harm in letting her use the girls restroom? If there is inappropriate behavior, deal with that issue if it happens. Seriously! We use public restrooms when we go to the zoo, or a restaurant...we don't know the other people there. Most of the time we don't talk to them and we certainly don't look at or touch their privates. If people would spend as much time seeking their own self enlightenment as they do criticizing the acts of others, we'd be a much more advanced society!
Hi, SC. Long time, no see.

I was wondering a bit about this. The only two states that I'm familiar with the policy are the ones mentioned in the article. (Maine and New York.) In New York, it would be fine. In Maine, it wouldn't.

In the Fountain/Ft Carson School District, the documentation is a birth certificate and immunization record. There are other districts that would take the passport for Coy's verification of age and gender as female, but the transcripts from District 8 (F/Ft C) would still have Coy as male. (Confusing, isn't it?)

Truthfully, they might not even have to move to carry out a plan such as yours. All they would have to do is transfer Coy to District 2 (Harrison) or District 3 (Widefield)*****. At least the kid would be getting an education while the media circus ensues.

I don't know if putting the kid in the spotlight was the best idea. I have to wonder if the same suit couldn't have been filed without specifically naming Coy to avoid all that.



***** For those who don't know, I lived in the Colorado Springs area for fifteen years. My kids were in all three of those districts during that period of time.





GotSteel -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 4:22:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
What a dipshit response, dave really,pathetic.


Yeah, trying to distract from the faultiness of his argument with that bullshit is quite lame.




tweakabelle -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 4:35:51 AM)

quote:

Here in America most people actually take a pretty dim view of those who do bad things to women and children, though.


I'm afraid that claim doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

GOP lawmakers across the country have unleashed a war against women and most of these morons are still there in their legislatures making even stupider more offensive laws that really " do bad things to women and children", or dismantling and/or denying access to the welfare systems that enable those women forced to have children against their will to feed those children.

So it could be said that rather than taking a "dim view of those who do bad things to women and children", many of those dimwits are rewarded by public office in large swathes of the USA.




Lucylastic -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 4:41:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
What a dipshit response, dave really,pathetic.


Yeah, trying to distract from the faultiness of his argument with that bullshit is quite lame.

It was not unexpected[;)]




OttersSwim -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 6:32:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Some people under the umbrella *do* consider it adopting a role for a short while and playing/acting that role out in various settings from private hookups to public places.

The discussion would be worth having, especially since there is a strong element of consent/lack of consent potentially there.



Let me address this and Steel's post above. There are really two different types of people who engage in gender expression - those who are driven to do it via a fetish or sexual expression, and those who are driven to do it to create an authentic expression of "self". Between those two groups, there is a pretty huge gulf of intention and thinking behind the gender expression.

From the concept of playing a role, I would say from personal experience that I am most my "true self" when I am expressing my authentic self - and that self is predominately female. When I present as male (as I still do), then I feel as if I am more playing a role than when I am in female attire in a safe place (note that concept of "safe place" for later). I have spoken with other transgendered folk who expressed similar notions of where they are most authentic in themselves. As to the Steel's statement of roleplaying, I admit I was probably a bit twitchy about that sort of term given the squirrel post and others that made his position seem hostile. Thanks for responding politely Steel. :)

This concept of "authentic expression of self" is why I think the subject in the OP, Coy, is likely to be transgendered because at that age there is pretty much a zero chance of it being any sort of expression of fetish or sexual urge. We have to understand that when something like this presnets itself in a child, it becomes a pretty burning topic of discussion in the family. It certainly did with me and I was discussed and stressed about and trotted out to therapists, and eventually ended up in the "Big Brother of America" program where it was thought that a male role model would help me. And it did, but not in the way they thought - i.e., it did nothing to change who I was authentically inside. I can guarantee you that Coy at this point has heard most of the discussions about her, the anxt and worry, etc.

I certainly agree that this cannot be good, but in part it could not be helped. I believe that now, were I one of her parents, I would be looking for the best way to return her to a sense of normalcy. And as has been discussed, a move of house and school would be paramount in my mind as well.

As to the bathroom issue...it is never going to be easy. I cringe to use the restroom when I am out in public and it is something that every transgendered person thinks about. I fear someday being confronted using the Ladies room. I fear direct assault if I were forced to use the Men's room.

Again, I want to stress that there is something else going on in a transgendered person that is immensely different from a fetish or sexual expression. People have said that they don't understand what it is like to feel so different in body from what is at the core of your being. There is a brain/body disconnect and a spiritual disconnect too.

For me, being transgendered is like holding your breath. If you just stop breathing without taking a big breath...wait about 5-6 seconds and feel that urgent call that your body begins sending for air. That is the closest comparison I can come up with. It comes from the body, from the brain and from the heart and it affects different people to different levels. It is the urgent call of dissonance - brain body disconnected, a sense that who you are at the core of your being is not reflected in your physical body.

Imagine feeling that sort of sensation every minute of every day x365xyearsxdecades....from age 5 or 6... You cannot help but to be deeply affected by it. It often is the driving force in your entire life, and it can even be so severe that you feel called to end it.

And so I believe that in the vast vast majority of the (relatively small number) transgendered people out there, there is simply a desire to live our lives unmolested, in our authenticity. And that is going to mean that we are going to have to share public spaces and yes, even bathrooms with some of you and that may make you uncomfortable.

The thing I would like people to understand is that I am just there to pee in as much privacy as the bathroom in question will allow. I don't want to see your bits any more than you want to see mine.




SadistDave -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 7:10:21 AM)

If some guy thinks he was born a girl and wants to go pee in the womens restroom, there's a surgery for that.

If a girl wants to go pee in the mens room, there's a surgery for that too.

It's a pretty simple concept really. If if someone is born with parts they don't like, they can get the appropriate surgery so they can pee in their preferred location. Until they show that level of commitment... fuck 'em.

Just because someone wants to be something does not mean they ARE something. If it did, then anyone fucking a furry, "puppy" or "pony" would be guilty of bestiality, adult babies would be considered minors and taking pictures of a 40 year old wearing nothing but baby booties and sucking a pacifier would be child porn.

Or, as Douglas Adams observed "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands."

-SD-




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