RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (Full Version)

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thishereboi -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 7:25:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

If some guy thinks he was born a girl and wants to go pee in the womens restroom, there's a surgery for that.

If a girl wants to go pee in the mens room, there's a surgery for that too.

It's a pretty simple concept really. If if someone is born with parts they don't like, they can get the appropriate surgery so they can pee in their preferred location. Until they show that level of commitment... fuck 'em.

Just because someone wants to be something does not mean they ARE something. If it did, then anyone fucking a furry, "puppy" or "pony" would be guilty of bestiality, adult babies would be considered minors and taking pictures of a 40 year old wearing nothing but baby booties and sucking a pacifier would be child porn.

Or, as Douglas Adams observed "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands."

-SD-


They won't do the surgery on a kid that young. If if someone is born with parts they don't like, they can get the appropriate surgery after they reach a certain age. Until then they are stuck with what they have. Not sure why you are having such a hard time with that concept. It's pretty simple really.[8|]




Lucylastic -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 7:35:16 AM)

I could explain it, but ...hes just trolling...not worth the effort




SadistDave -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 7:50:26 AM)

No, you can't accept the idea that not everyone buys into your crazy bullshit...

-SD-




Lucylastic -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 8:08:08 AM)

Nah I just have little time for what makes up people that post your kind of spew

[image]local://upfiles/228382/827B08D9FDBB4CD4BBA5CE81457E6DBC.jpg[/image]




SadistDave -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 7:01:06 PM)

Ah yes! Someone disagrees with you so they must be a hater, or a bigot, or a racist. So, if you insist on calling me ignorant and a hater, then recognize that you are every bit as much a hater for refusing to recognize the rights of people who simply don't agree with your intellectually limited opinions. You want to force people to accept your beliefs without regard to anyone elses, and that's pretty lame.

Here's a little bit of a reality check for you. Other people have rights too, not just the people you believe deserve special rights. Other people deserve protection too, not just the people you think should have it. Only an ignorant, bigoted, hater like you would conclude that the world must accept your insignificant opinions as the basis for reality.

People also have a right to make sure their children are not exposed to things they don't want them to be exposed to. People have a right to protect their children from other peoples beliefs. People have the right to keep their children physically safe from what they believe to be dangerous situations. If you're too stupid to realize that, then you aren't smart enough to even be having the conversation. You've shown that you're every bit the ignorant, bigoted hater you believe me to be.

When people like you show no consideration for the beliefs of others, you really should expect people to not particularly give a fuck about your opinions... And that is precisely how the LGBT community has treated these issues of late. The bullying tactics have gotten old.

-SD-





LookieNoNookie -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 7:08:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Ah yes! Someone disagrees with you so they must be a hater, or a bigot, or a racist. So, if you insist on calling me ignorant and a hater, then recognize that you are every bit as much a hater for refusing to recognize the rights of people who simply don't agree with your intellectually limited opinions. You want to force people to accept your beliefs without regard to anyone elses, and that's pretty lame.

Here's a little bit of a reality check for you. Other people have rights too, not just the people you believe deserve special rights. Other people deserve protection too, not just the people you think should have it. Only an ignorant, bigoted, hater like you would conclude that the world must accept your insignificant opinions as the basis for reality.

People also have a right to make sure their children are not exposed to things they don't want them to be exposed to. People have a right to protect their children from other peoples beliefs. People have the right to keep their children physically safe from what they believe to be dangerous situations. If you're too stupid to realize that, then you aren't smart enough to even be having the conversation. You've shown that you're every bit the ignorant, bigoted hater you believe me to be.

When people like you show no consideration for the beliefs of others, you really should expect people to not particularly give a fuck about your opinions... And that is precisely how the LGBT community has treated these issues of late. The bullying tactics have gotten old.

-SD-




Nothing to disagree with there.

If some guy wants to pee in the womens bathroom, you can rest assured, local federali's will have something to say about that.

I've always wondered frankly, why it's illegal for a mens only health club, but women only....all good.

Women peeing in a mans bathroom....not too many would call the cops.




Lucylastic -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 7:23:35 PM)

SD unlike you... Im fine with people having other opinions unless it comes from a place of ignorance and ugliness.
you use your fear/ignorance and ugliness to explain your hate.
waaaaaaaah rabbit on dood...Your rant is hysterically lost.





GotSteel -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 8:34:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
Ah yes! Someone disagrees with you so they must be a hater, or a bigot, or a racist.

Dave, I agree that her response was bullshit but to be fair she was responding to your bullshit.

You're the one who called an end to the intellectually honest portion of the conversation and started the turd throwing fest You shouldn't be particularly surprised when she lobs a turd back, I mean you've got it coming man.




GotSteel -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 9:11:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
As to the Steel's statement of roleplaying, I admit I was probably a bit twitchy about that sort of term given the squirrel post and others that made his position seem hostile. Thanks for responding politely Steel. :)


I'm serious about the squirrel thing. Well ok, I was joking a bit with LadyPact but I'm serious too. I can't see a difference in the positions other than that your authentic self isn't a cartoon fox, well here, here's a furry explaining things:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.flayrah.com/4383/opinion-why-furry-experience-hits-home-so-deeply
The furry experience addresses a nearly universal desire to be seen as you feel you are

Whether you are a fur (who feels a species identity different than your human skin shows), a transgender (who feels a gender different than your birth body shows), or just differently colored, shaped, or pigmented than those around you, probably all furries and their kin were likely acutely aware at an age as young age as 4-8 years old that how people saw and treated them was very different than what they felt they were like inside.

This is true for all humans, in fact, who are instantly judged at some level based on impressions: blonde, female, Mexican, Asian, African, and so on, which also have nothing to do with who you are inside. Where furs step off this path of false impressions is that we, nearly uniquely, create a fursona that we own (we feel it, we made it, it was not set a birth), and then we project and interact based upon that character.

Online many people use such a projected character. But in fursuit, it goes farther. For me, to have adults and children approach me and treat me based on the very same image of how I feel about who I am internally is a very empowering experience. In really no other way do humans change their appearance, down the their very pelt and body structure, so that in real life physical and social interactions, other furs and people approach them based on their self-image rather than their inherited traits.

So why does, in my view, the furry experience hit home so deeply? It is because it addresses a nearly universal desire to be seen as you feel you are. and those of us who are furs, minorities of any kind, LGBT just are made aware of our differences, and the insufficiency and misdirection of our treatment at the hands of less enlightened people.*

Thus, for me, putting on a suit, or interacting in character, is so transformative because I am approached as I feel I am, not as others may judge I am. If only mundanes could do the same thing.... everyone should be so lucky as to experience this.





thishereboi -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 9:42:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Ah yes! Someone disagrees with you so they must be a hater, or a bigot, or a racist. So, if you insist on calling me ignorant and a hater, then recognize that you are every bit as much a hater for refusing to recognize the rights of people who simply don't agree with your intellectually limited opinions. You want to force people to accept your beliefs without regard to anyone elses, and that's pretty lame.

Here's a little bit of a reality check for you. Other people have rights too, not just the people you believe deserve special rights. Other people deserve protection too, not just the people you think should have it. Only an ignorant, bigoted, hater like you would conclude that the world must accept your insignificant opinions as the basis for reality.

People also have a right to make sure their children are not exposed to things they don't want them to be exposed to. People have a right to protect their children from other peoples beliefs. People have the right to keep their children physically safe from what they believe to be dangerous situations. If you're too stupid to realize that, then you aren't smart enough to even be having the conversation. You've shown that you're every bit the ignorant, bigoted hater you believe me to be.

When people like you show no consideration for the beliefs of others, you really should expect people to not particularly give a fuck about your opinions... And that is precisely how the LGBT community has treated these issues of late. The bullying tactics have gotten old.

-SD-




Do you always get this worked up when you are called on your bullshit? Or are you still going to try to claim "If some guy thinks he was born a girl and wants to go pee in the womens restroom, there's a surgery for that. If a girl wants to go pee in the mens room, there's a surgery for that too."

Personally if I had made a claim like that and was called on it I would just accept that it was a stupid statement and leave it at that. This blathering is just making you look worse.




GotSteel -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/5/2013 10:32:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Do you always get this worked up when you are called on your bullshit? Or are you still going to try to claim "If some guy thinks he was born a girl and wants to go pee in the womens restroom, there's a surgery for that. If a girl wants to go pee in the mens room, there's a surgery for that too."

Personally if I had made a claim like that and was called on it I would just accept that it was a stupid statement and leave it at that. This blathering is just making you look worse.


Forgive me if I'm getting this wrong it's been a while since I looked it up but it seems like Dave is bringing up the law as it stands in several states. That to me makes it worth taking the time to rebut with something more substantial than snark.




Lucylastic -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/6/2013 2:32:23 AM)

I want to apologise to LP and most of the posters for my part in the way this has been hijacked.
The topic deserved better than this.
Gotsteel you are correct, my response was bullshit, I should have left the taunt out of it.
I will not be part of any other taunt in this thread again.





thishereboi -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/6/2013 6:21:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Do you always get this worked up when you are called on your bullshit? Or are you still going to try to claim "If some guy thinks he was born a girl and wants to go pee in the womens restroom, there's a surgery for that. If a girl wants to go pee in the mens room, there's a surgery for that too."

Personally if I had made a claim like that and was called on it I would just accept that it was a stupid statement and leave it at that. This blathering is just making you look worse.


Forgive me if I'm getting this wrong it's been a while since I looked it up but it seems like Dave is bringing up the law as it stands in several states. That to me makes it worth taking the time to rebut with something more substantial than snark.


Good point. Maybe you could start the ball rolling by telling us which states allow a 6 year old to have the surgery.




Toysinbabeland -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/6/2013 6:40:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, only rarely do I get an urge to grab up a girl while she is in full piss spraying and put the stumps to her.

It ain't that sexy.

And never when she is putting her Lincoln logs away.





note to self: buy lincoln logs.




OttersSwim -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/6/2013 7:15:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I'm serious about the squirrel thing. Well ok, I was joking a bit with LadyPact but I'm serious too. I can't see a difference in the positions other than that your authentic self isn't a cartoon fox, well here, here's a furry explaining things:



You know, I have no judgement about if someone feels themselves to be a cartoon fox...I guess I would ask what they are doing to make that a reality for themselves.

I know what transgendered people are doing and that is my primary concern and focus. When/if the furry movement gets enough momentum in society to attempt to enact change, then they, just as we, are welcome to try.

Gender variance has been recorded as far back and Greece and Roman societies. It is not very well reported yet, but there are currently about 700,000 reported trans people in the U.S. I believe that number to be significantly higher. Regardless, while the number will still be relatively small, it is significant enough to recognize as a subset of society, and powerful enough in our society to at least attempt social and legislative change.

Gender dysphoria is a socially recognized dysphoric condition requiring treatment. While it is not a mental illness, it can lead to mental illness if untreated. As many as 50% of transgender people are driven to attempt suicide they are affected so deeply by both the condition and the social, familial, economic, physical and mental repercussions of living with it.

Potential loss of family, job, housing...not to mention being subjected to verbal and physical abuse, assault and murder. The rising numbers, the cases, and the details of the assaults and murders of transgendered people are beyond horrifying and is happening world-wide. Google has all the grisly details...

It is part of the process and what transgendered people have to go through in order to affect change and gain acceptance in society just as the gay and lesbian movement is doing.

What has changed in the past several years is that society has moved enough to allow transgendered children to begin coming out now. And I predict we will see more and more coming out in years to come. We as a society have to deal with this and I can tell you that the answer is not teaching them to "hide, deny, and repress".




GotSteel -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/6/2013 6:23:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Good point. Maybe you could start the ball rolling by telling us which states allow a 6 year old to have the surgery.


As far as I know none, now can you go somewhere with that because snark isn't actually a substitute for articulating ones position.




SadistDave -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/6/2013 6:39:59 PM)

Here's the problem... Colorado has laws on the books that make it illegal to discriminate based on gender identity. Unfortunately those laws are not at all clear about potty breaks. I'm no lawyer, but I've been looking at these statutes off and on for most of the day at LegalNexis. Most of the anti-discrimination laws in Colorado are about housing, insurance coverage, legal process, hate crimes, etc.. Mostly they mirror Federal law, which is pretty much whatever politicians were willing to concede in order to get elected.

Here are the examples cited by Wikipedia that I found on LexisNexis.
Colorado Revised Statutes; 24-34-502, 1
Colorado Revised Statutes; 24-34-402, 1
Colorado Revised Statutes; 10-3-1104, 1

The law states that you cannot refuse them reasonable "accommodations" but I haven't found anything in Colorado law that says those accommodations have to be any particular way. Without clarity, then as long as you allow them to use one accommodation or the other then you are not discriminating against them. There isn't a single thing I've been able to find that says you have to let someone use accommodations they want as long as you don't deny them access to some kind of accommodations. So, if a little boy identifies as a little girl, it isn't discrimination to make him use the boys bathroom because that is a reasonable accommodation for a person with boy parts. As far as I can tell, it would only be discrimination by Colorado law if the school said he couldn't use any of the schools bathrooms.

Keep in mind that under Colorado's LGBT anti-discrimination laws LGBTs don't even have the benefit of civil unions yet, let alone gay marriage. Their anti-discrimination laws are very basic and very minimal. This bathroom issue is by no means an open and shut case of legal discrimination. It's actually pretty thin based on Colorados current laws.

-SD-




OttersSwim -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/6/2013 8:22:57 PM)

Actually, according to this, they have to let them use the facility that pairs with their gender presentation:

Does the new law require public
accommodations to eliminate gender-
segregated bathrooms or other
facilities?

No. Covered entities may still maintain
gender-segregated public restrooms and
similar facilities, such as locker rooms. No
place of public accommodation is required
to provide unisex restrooms. If covered
entities provide public access to such
facilities, they must allow individuals access
appropriate to their gender identity, rather
than their assigned gender at birth.

May transgender individuals be required
to “prove” they are transgender to use
gender-segregated facilities?

No. Just as non-transgender individuals
should be able to use a restroom or locker
room appropriate to their gender identity
without having to provide documentation or
respond to invasive requests, transgender
individuals must also be allowed to use a
gender-segregated facility appropriate to
their transgender status without being
harassed or questioned.


http://www.transgenderlaw.org/ndlaws/ColoradoFAQ.pdf




LadyPact -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/7/2013 12:32:40 AM)

Thank you for the link, Otters. In checking the date, I understand why I wasn't aware of it. We had moved on to GA prior to that law passing.

Since/If I still have your attention, I'd like to ask you a question for your personal opinion. As always, please remember that I am asking to further My own education and hope to phrase this in a non offending way.

What would your feelings have been on the alternative solution of the unisex bathroom for use? While your Lady was quite right in her statement that we don't know the genitalia of the person in the next stall, putting this kid in the spotlight has pretty much ended that theory. I'd have to say that it's been blown out of the water since the kid was yanked out of school and the story was splashed all over the news. Since Coy is quite obviously aware that her insides don't match her outsides, do you think there could have been a better, age appropriate way to have handled this?




SadistDave -> RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools (3/7/2013 12:35:01 AM)

Good catch!

However, if it's that cut and dry then there is no need for a lawsuit. Only the need to point out this aspect of the law. Has this ever been tested in the Colorado courts? If not, this FAQ may not be accurate by the time the dust settles...

One section says they "must" and another section says they "should". This sounds like unsettled law...

-SD-




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