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treason? - 2/28/2013 10:57:08 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

Bradley Manning pleads guilty to misusing classified data in WikiLeaks case


(Reuters) - The U.S. Army private accused of providing diplomatic cables and other secret documents to the WikiLeaks website pleaded guilty on Thursday to misusing classified material, but denied the most serious charge in the case, aiding the enemy.

Source


My opinion is that this was treason, and should have been charged as such.

_____________________________

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RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 11:34:17 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Bradley Manning pleads guilty to misusing classified data in WikiLeaks case


(Reuters) - The U.S. Army private accused of providing diplomatic cables and other secret documents to the WikiLeaks website pleaded guilty on Thursday to misusing classified material, but denied the most serious charge in the case, aiding the enemy.

Source


My opinion is that this was treason, and should have been charged as such.

Treason has a very specific meaning and this does not reach that level.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 12:11:36 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Bradley Manning pleads guilty to misusing classified data in WikiLeaks case


(Reuters) - The U.S. Army private accused of providing diplomatic cables and other secret documents to the WikiLeaks website pleaded guilty on Thursday to misusing classified material, but denied the most serious charge in the case, aiding the enemy.

Source


My opinion is that this was treason, and should have been charged as such.

Treason has a very specific meaning and this does not reach that level.


So, you do not think that Manning's actions seriously injured his nation?


Personally, I think that Manning should be shot.


_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 12:24:48 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


Posts: 1226
Joined: 3/3/2009
Status: offline 		manning definitely aided tha enemy handing sensitive material to julian that he knew would be beamed round tha world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Personally, I think that Manning should be shot.

a bit quick. should have electrodes attached to his balls unless he likes that sorta thing.

_____________________________

"I had lot's of luck but its all been bad"

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 12:37:31 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Bradley Manning pleads guilty to misusing classified data in WikiLeaks case


(Reuters) - The U.S. Army private accused of providing diplomatic cables and other secret documents to the WikiLeaks website pleaded guilty on Thursday to misusing classified material, but denied the most serious charge in the case, aiding the enemy.

Source


My opinion is that this was treason, and should have been charged as such.

Treason has a very specific meaning and this does not reach that level.

The very specific meaning of treason is aiding and abetting or giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Anyone who doesn't believe what Pvt Manning did rises to the level of treason is themselves guilty of treason.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 12:38:44 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Bradley Manning pleads guilty to misusing classified data in WikiLeaks case


(Reuters) - The U.S. Army private accused of providing diplomatic cables and other secret documents to the WikiLeaks website pleaded guilty on Thursday to misusing classified material, but denied the most serious charge in the case, aiding the enemy.

Source


My opinion is that this was treason, and should have been charged as such.

Treason has a very specific meaning and this does not reach that level.


So, you do not think that Manning's actions seriously injured his nation?


Personally, I think that Manning should be shot.


Personnally, I think everyone who doesn't think Manning should be shot should be shot along with Manning.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 12:51:31 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I wasnt thinking shot, but maybe fed to sharks, lions, wolves, cougars....

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 1:33:37 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
~ FR ~

Why Bradly Manning is a Patriot

For the past seven months, Army Private First Class Manning has been held in solitary confinement in the Marine Corps brig in Quantico, Virginia. Twenty-five thousand other Americans are also in prolonged solitary confinement, but the conditions of Manning’s pre-trial detention have been sufficiently brutal for the United Nation’s Special Rapporteur on Torture to announce an investigation.

Manning first took his concerns up the chain of command:

And how did his superiors respond? His commanding officer told him to “shut up”...

The next time Pfc. Manning encountered evidence of war crimes, he took a different course of action... the records allegedly downloaded by Manning revealed clear instances of war crimes committed by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, widespread torture committed by the Iraqi authorities with the full knowledge of the U.S. military, previously unknown estimates of the number of Iraqi civilians killed at U.S. military checkpoints, and the massive Iraqi civilian death toll caused by the American invasion...

when we reward lawyers in the Justice Department who created memos that made torture legal with federal judgeships and regular newspaper columns, while locking lock up a whistle-blowing private, you have to ask: What country are we now living in?

K.


(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 1:45:41 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		fr

I'd give Manning a medal.

_____________________________

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“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 2:14:44 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		It is not for a mixed up kid to decide to betray his oath and deliver classified docs to anyone. I don't care what his reasoning is.

I also don't agree with keeping him in inhumane conditions as has been alleged.

When I was in the Army, punishment for leaking Classified info was at least 30 years in jail and $35,000 (IIRC).

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(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 2:20:00 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		I do not know. There may be more to the case than meets the eye.

Anyway, it is clear that there are a lot of ethically disfunctional USA people whom I would rather not have any interaction with. No doubt there are many such people in other - and my own - countries as well.

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 2:20:20 PM   
FelineRanger


Posts: 658
Joined: 9/4/2012
Status: offline 		Manning is only a hero because the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were so poorly planned and executed that they did massive damage to the U.S on multiple fronts. Would he still have been a hero if he had turned over similar amounts of documentation during Desert Storm? Not likely. That's just my $0.02.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 2:50:51 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Bradley Manning pleads guilty to misusing classified data in WikiLeaks case


(Reuters) - The U.S. Army private accused of providing diplomatic cables and other secret documents to the WikiLeaks website pleaded guilty on Thursday to misusing classified material, but denied the most serious charge in the case, aiding the enemy.

Source


My opinion is that this was treason, and should have been charged as such.

Treason has a very specific meaning and this does not reach that level.


So, you do not think that Manning's actions seriously injured his nation?


Personally, I think that Manning should be shot.


Treason is defined in the Constitution as
quote:


Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Manning did not levy war against the US. He neither adhered to nor gave aid and comfort to our enemies and finally there are not two witnesses to any overt act of his so unless he confesses in open court he cannot even be tried for treason.

Leaking classified documents should get him the usual punishment for violating the National Security Act but nothing more. He is not the first leaker and his leaks are only noteable due to the sheer volume leaked. If the Walker spy ring, which certainly involved treason against the US, resulted in no executions then Manning certainly does not deserve it.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 2/28/2013 2:55:02 PM >

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 2:58:09 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


~ FR ~

Why Bradly Manning is a Patriot

For the past seven months, Army Private First Class Manning has been held in solitary confinement in the Marine Corps brig in Quantico, Virginia. Twenty-five thousand other Americans are also in prolonged solitary confinement, but the conditions of Manning’s pre-trial detention have been sufficiently brutal for the United Nation’s Special Rapporteur on Torture to announce an investigation.

Manning first took his concerns up the chain of command:

And how did his superiors respond? His commanding officer told him to “shut up”...

The next time Pfc. Manning encountered evidence of war crimes, he took a different course of action... the records allegedly downloaded by Manning revealed clear instances of war crimes committed by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, widespread torture committed by the Iraqi authorities with the full knowledge of the U.S. military, previously unknown estimates of the number of Iraqi civilians killed at U.S. military checkpoints, and the massive Iraqi civilian death toll caused by the American invasion...

when we reward lawyers in the Justice Department who created memos that made torture legal with federal judgeships and regular newspaper columns, while locking lock up a whistle-blowing private, you have to ask: What country are we now living in?

K.




I am totally in shock...I think I am having a heart attack..but I agree with you. I need to make an appointment with my therapist, my medications need to be reviewed.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 3:01:18 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Bradley Manning pleads guilty to misusing classified data in WikiLeaks case


(Reuters) - The U.S. Army private accused of providing diplomatic cables and other secret documents to the WikiLeaks website pleaded guilty on Thursday to misusing classified material, but denied the most serious charge in the case, aiding the enemy.

Source


My opinion is that this was treason, and should have been charged as such.

Treason has a very specific meaning and this does not reach that level.


So, you do not think that Manning's actions seriously injured his nation?


Personally, I think that Manning should be shot.


Treason is defined in the Constitution as
quote:


Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Manning did not levy war against the US. He neither adhered to nor gave aid and comfort to our enemies and finally there are not two witnesses to any overt act of his so unless he confesses in open court he cannot even be tried for treason.

Leaking classified documents should get him the usual punishment for violating the National Security Act but nothing more. He is not the first leaker and his leaks are only noteable due to the sheer volume leaked. If the Walker spy ring, which certainly involved treason against the US, resulted in no executions then Manning certainly does not deserve it.


Leaking classified documents you mean like the video from the attack helicopter killing the news crew. The crew of the helicopter thought the camera was a SAM missle. The incident was never reported until Manning released the video.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 3:09:27 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I am totally in shock...I think I am having a heart attack..but I agree with you. I need to make an appointment with my therapist, my medications need to be reviewed.

No you don't. You have no fucking idea what I think. I posted what Chase Madar thinks.

As for the rest of your post, sounds like a good idea.

K.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 3:11:39 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Bradley Manning pleads guilty to misusing classified data in WikiLeaks case


(Reuters) - The U.S. Army private accused of providing diplomatic cables and other secret documents to the WikiLeaks website pleaded guilty on Thursday to misusing classified material, but denied the most serious charge in the case, aiding the enemy.

Source


My opinion is that this was treason, and should have been charged as such.


Really I recall an Air Force Lieutenant Christopher Cooke many years ago giving the Russian, when the cold war was on, classified information, he worked at the Pentago, he wanted to kick start his career. His charges were dismissed, of course his lawyer was F. Lee Bailey. Take my word for it the UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice) only applies to E-4 and below.

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/09/18/us/pretrial-arguments-end-in-cooke-espionage-case.html

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 3:13:52 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I am totally in shock...I think I am having a heart attack..but I agree with you. I need to make an appointment with my therapist, my medications need to be reviewed.

No you don't. You have no fucking idea what I think. I posted what Chase Madar thinks.

As for the rest of your post, sounds like a good idea.

K.


Oh good I am agreeing with Chase Madar and not you. I guess I will have to call the press annoucement off now.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 3:28:19 PM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline
quote:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/oathofenlist.htm

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.


What has Bradly Manning been accused of that violates his oath?

Revealing war crimes is not an offense. It is supporting and defending the Constitution of the United States. Even if the President orders otherwise. The Constitution does not empower those who oppose it.

quote:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

Amendment 14 SECTION 3.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.


_____________________________

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simul justus et peccator
Einen Liebhaber, und halten Sie die Schraube

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(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: treason? - 2/28/2013 3:42:04 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Bradley Manning pleads guilty to misusing classified data in WikiLeaks case


(Reuters) - The U.S. Army private accused of providing diplomatic cables and other secret documents to the WikiLeaks website pleaded guilty on Thursday to misusing classified material, but denied the most serious charge in the case, aiding the enemy.

Source


My opinion is that this was treason, and should have been charged as such.


Oh don't worry Manning pled guilty to only 10 counts and the prosecutors are still planing to proceed with the 12 remaining charges. They really want the boy punished, he already is facing 20 years.

http://news.yahoo.com/gi-pleads-guilty-wikileaks-case-faces-20-years-230358952.html

Of course in the same year as Manning 2009 the Fort Hood Officer, Major Nidal Hasan, accused of killing some 13 people and attempting kill another 32, his case is still dragging on. First the beard now he wants his trial moved.

http://www.chron.com/news/texas/article/Fort-Hood-shooting-suspect-trial-set-for-May-29-4315222.php

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/28/us-usa-crime-forthood-idUSBRE91R0KI20130228

< Message edited by Nosathro -- 2/28/2013 3:49:11 PM >

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 20
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